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Shia Kalima


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#1 MO`MIN

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 09:27 AM

Salamu Alekum.

Plz refer to any hadis where Rasulallah saw have told us to read Ali A-Waliyyallah in our kalima. OR if Imam Ali as. or Imam Hassan as. used to submit it into the Kalima.....

Why are shiane Ahlulbayt then having kalima with Aliun-Wliyyallah??


wassalam

#2 Azadhar

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 10:55 AM

To be honest \it is because the prophet taught Islam in stages to his people. Believe it or not the first thing taught to them was "la Ila ha" and be blessed. Soon after that he took it to the next level..."La Ila Ha...IllAllah" There is no God but Allah. The next thing of course that he tought them was "La illa ha il Allah, Muhhamed ar rasoolallah" Only on the day when the prophet revealed the last of the Quran to his people. did he then tell them that their religion was complete and that Imam Ali would be his succesor and he also taught them "Ali un Waliyullah. Wasi ar RasoolAllah" But of course The Sunnis had it wiped out. As they also wiped out..."Ashadu annah Ali Ul Amir ul Momineen" from the Azhan as well After all the name of Imam Ali has always terrified the unjust in this world

#3 salmany

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 12:42 PM

sallam

but ofcouse these 2 things were never a part of the kalima and azaan.

sallam
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#4 Azadhar

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 12:53 PM

They most certainly WERE and ARE a part of the Kalmah and the Azaan till they were taken out by Sunnis

#5 salmany

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 01:05 PM

sallam

And if i say only la illaha illalah muahhamadur rasu Allah ...then what difference does it make.Is this not the basis of our religion?And where in the hadiths is it written that these were parts od the kalima or azaan?

sallam

#6 Orion

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 01:18 PM

Brother Azadhar,

Salam o Alekum,

They most certainly WERE and ARE a part of the Kalmah and the Azaan till they were taken out by Sunnis


Kindly provide some proof for what you have said.

Khuda Hafiz.
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#7 Azadhar

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 06:05 PM

It is a theory. And in reply to your question if you are only saying "La Ilaaha Ill Allah. Muhamed Ar Rasool Allah" then you are simply saying half the Kalmah

#8 Orion

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 06:31 PM

It is a theory. And in reply to your question if you are only saying "La Ilaaha Ill Allah. Muhamed Ar Rasool Allah" then you are simply saying half the Kalmah

Even theories are based on something. Quate from an authantic Shia or Sunni book, hadith, statement, history whatever. Show some proof.

Khuda Hafiz.

#9 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 10:36 PM

786-110

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but ofcouse these 2 things were never a part of the kalima and azaan.


During Hujjatil widaa3 for Rasul Allah (SAW), in Ghadeer-Khum, Abu Dhar (ra) got up and said the adhan, and in the adhan he said "Ash hadu anna Aliyyan waliullah x2 ". Rasul Allah (SAW) didn't object, so therefore it was accepted during the time of the Rasul (SAW).

As for our kalima, to have the rights of a muslim, you just have to say the first two lines, but in order to be a believer you have to accept the third.

Rasul Allah (SAW) says : Alliyun khairul bashar faman abaa faqad kafar

Salawaat!!!!!!!! :!!!:

Wassalaam

#10 salmany

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 12:10 AM

sallam

I still do not see any sources for this kalima.And as for theory i cannot accept that without valid proof.

sallam

#11 Hassib

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 12:31 AM

salaam walaykum,

ashaduana aliyan waliullah is not a mandatory part of the adhan. Abu Dahr recited it and the prohpet accepted it (as bro abdulhujjah said) therefore its ok to say it. BUT, the Prohpet never said that it is mandatory to say ashanduana aliyan waliullah. Its just optional. When i recite the adhan, i say it, why not?

#12 Sayyid

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 05:07 AM

Assalam Alaikum

Adhan and payers are two entities whereas Kalima is not. Kalima is just expression of belief. For a person to become Muslim he/she must have faith in oneness of Allah and prophethood of the Holy Prophet (SAW). He/she can express his/her belief choosing words/language of his own choice and recitation of the words "La ila ha illalah, Muhhamed ur rasulollah is NOT mandatory. However, to become true momin one must have faith in "vilayat" of Ali Ibe Ali Talib (a.s) as without this faith is not complete.

As far as Adhan is concerned Shia marja almost agree that "Ash hadu anna Aliyyan waliullah " is NOT a part of Adhan. However it can be said with intension of "qurbat"

Wassalam
Sayyid

#13 salmany

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 01:07 PM

sallam

thanks for clearing that out.So this means that the claim by one of the brothers that this part was originally taken out by sunnis was wrong.Knowledge is power.

sallam

#14 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 01:11 AM

786-110

Salam@lai.com

The first one to say Alis (as) in the shahada is Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì....

Imam Ja'afar ibn Muhammad al-Sadiq (as) says:-

When Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì create the heavens and the Earth he ordered a munadi (caller) fanaada (he called out):
Ashhadu an la ilaha illa Allah, thrice,
ashhadu anna Muhammadan rasul Allah thrice,
ashhadu anna Aliyyan amir al mu'mineen haqqan thrice.


Bihar al -anwar vol.37 p.295

Is that good enough for the shahada...?

As for the adhaan story about Abu Dhar (ra):

the book is called al-salafat by al sheikh abdullah al maraaghi. I'm yet to find the exact reference.. but it's there so help me out guys, if indeed you are servants of Ali (as).


Wassalaam

#15 salmany

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 08:54 PM

sallam

1 source? and that to i dont knw of...can you find any other ? sunni /shia both.

sallam

#16 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 12:13 PM

786-110

Salam@lai.com

Obviously Salmany if there were any sunni sources, there would be no conflict in this matter as for more shia sources if you want them ill input them. But I like writing short posts, that are to the point....

Wassalaam

#17 Aale Mohammad

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 01:41 PM

It is a belief well known and agreed upon that...for one to be a muslim..it is sufficent to say : "La illaha Illul Lah, Mohammad ur Rasul Allah.".

#18 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 01:45 PM

786-110

Salam@lai.com

It is a belief well known and agreed upon that...for one to be a muslim..it is sufficent to say : "La illaha Illul Lah, Mohammad ur Rasul Allah.".


The hadith says: for one to enjoy the rights of a muslim (not to be a muslim)" . Without Abul Hassan (as) your deeds are åóÈóÇÁ ãøóäËõæÑðÇ

"scattered dust!!"

Wassalaam

#19 Azadhar

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 09:51 AM

I think this is getting ridiculous. I stand by my statement by saying that Ali Un WaliyuLLah MUST be included and that the Adhan is NOT the Adhan without Ashadu Ana Ali Ul AMir Ul Momineen..

How can any muslim honour his prophet then dishonour that sameprophets family? Its madness

#20 Orion

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 10:37 AM

I think this is getting ridiculous. I stand by my statement by saying that Ali Un WaliyuLLah MUST be included and that the Adhan is NOT the Adhan without Ashadu Ana Ali Ul AMir Ul Momineen..

Salam o Alekum,

It is not enough to just stand by your statement. What counts is PROOF from authantic books. In which book does it say that the Adhan is NOT the Adhan without Ashadu Ana Ali Ul AMir Ul Momineen..?

Read any Shia book and you will learn that "Ashadu Ana Ali Ul AMir Ul Momineen" is not part of Adhan and is said with the niat of "Qurba".

Khuda Hafiz.

#21 Abdulhujjah

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 10:44 AM

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Most Maraaji3 say it is mustahab and not part of the adhaan and if one has it in his intent that it is part of the adhaan then his adhaan is batil. e.g Sayyid al-Khoei (ra)

One marjaa3 say it has no benefit and no harm, Sayyid Fadhlullah

Some say it is an essential part of the adhaan, and can not be omitted. e.g Sayyid al-shirazi (ra)

Wassalaam

#22 Hajar

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 10:58 AM

I think this is getting ridiculous. I stand by my statement by saying that Ali Un WaliyuLLah MUST be included and that the Adhan is NOT the Adhan without Ashadu Ana Ali Ul AMir Ul Momineen..

Salaam alaikum,

The Scholars apparantly don't agree with you. From what I see, they say it is not part of adhan, but can be added for qurbat. You can't decide something like this for yourself. It's not good to add to Islamic Law, that's innovation and innovation in religion is haraam. You have to be careful about this. Below are a few rulings that I found online.

Imam Khamene'i:

Question 466: What is your esteemed opinion on the third testimony[shahadah] for the master of God's friends, Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, as being the commander[amir] and the leader[wali], in the azan and iqamah of obligatory prayers?

A: It is not a part of the azan or iqamah according to Islamic law, but there will be no problem in it if it is not included with the intention of putting it into, and making it a part of, the azan and iqamah. Rather, this testimony will be preferable if it is included solely for expressing and stressing one's belief regarding the Caliph [successor] of the Holy prophet, may God's blessings be upon him and his infallible inheritors.

Ayatollah Seestani:

928. Ash hadu anna Amiral Mu'minina 'Aliyyan Waliyyullah ( I testify that the Commander of the faithful, Imam Ali (as) is the vicegerent of Allah) is not a part of either Adhan or Iqamah. But it is preferable that it is pronounced after Ash hadu anna Muhammadan Rasulul lah with the niyyat of Qurbat.

Ayatollah Lankarani:

938. Ash hadu anna Amiral Mu’minina Aliyyan Waliyyullah is not a part of either Adhan or Iqamah. But it is preferable that it is pronounced after Ash hadu anna Muhammadan Rasulul lah with the Niyyat of Qurbat.

[URL=http://al-islam.org/organizations/aalimnetwork/msg00084.html]

Question:

As salamu alaykum.

I have a question. Why are we permitted in our prayers to say "ashadunna
aliyyan waliyullah" and why then don't we mention ALL the names of our
masoomen since they are also our representatives?

Answer:
Bismihi Ta'ala

According to the opinion of all our jurists, past and present, affirmation
of the wilayah of Imam Ali (a.s.) is not part of adhan. However, some
jurists have advised us to recite it with the hope that God will be
pleased with that addition and some have recommended its insertion for
thawab.

eg. Agha Khui, in the Articles of Islamic Acts, Article 385, states:
Ash hadu anna Amiral Mu'minina 'aliyan Waliyullah (i.e. I testify
that the commander of the Faithful Imam Ali is the vicegerent of Allah)
is not part of either Azan or Iqamah. It is however better to pronounce
it after -Ash hadu anna Muhammadan Rasulullah- to seek divine pleasure.

Ayat. Fadlullah states: "Ashadu anna Aliyyan waliyy-ul-laah" is not part
of the adhan or the iqamah and it is prohibited for one to regard it as a
legislated part (of the adhan or iqamah). Further, it is not proven that
(the recitation of wilayah) is recommended in them (i.e. the adhan and
iqamah). . . however, it can be recited with the hope of acceptance
without objection and recitation of it does not invalidate the adhan or
iqamah . . ."Al-Masa'il-ul-Fiqhiyya," p. 72.

Shaykh Saduq (d. 381 A.H.) was of the opinion that the statement on the
wilayah of Imam Ali (a.s.) was not part of the original adhan and was
added by the extremist Shi'a known as mufawwidah: "The mufawwidah, may
God curse them, have forged traditions and have inserted additions to the
adhan. Thus, some of them add Muhammad and the house of Muhammad are the
best of creation, twice. And in some of their quotations, after I witness
that Muhammad is the messenger of God, I witness that Ali is the wali of
God, twice. Some of them state, instead of that, I bear witness that Ali
is truly the Commander of the Faithful, twice. There is no doubt that Ali
is the wali of God, that he is truly the Commander of the Faithful and
that Muhammad and his house are the best of creation, but all this is not
in the original adhan. I have mentioned this so that those who are
suspected of tafwid and who with deception include themselves in our
community may be made known." (Shaykh Saduq, "Man la yaduruh al-faqih,
5th edition, Tehran: Dar al-kutub al-Islamiyyah, 1390 A.H., vol. 1, pp.
188-89).

As to why we mention Imam Ali (a.s.) and not the other Imams (a.s.), it is
perhaps because he is the progenitor of all the other Imams (a.s.)
Perhaps a case could be made that mentioning the names of other Imams
would entitle the believer to thawab. However, this is something on which
we would need to consult the jurist.


wa bi-l-laahi-t-tawfiq,

Hamid Mavani



WaSalaam, Hajar

#23 Sayyid

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 12:43 PM

Assalam Alaikum

Thanks sister hajar for providing details of rulings of maraaji on this vital issue. I have a question :

If we recite "Ash hadu anna Amiral Mu'minina 'Aliyyan Waliyyullah" in prayers, will it be okay or prayer will be baatil?

wassalm

Sayyid

#24 145_turbo_16V

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 12:53 PM

It will be batil if you say it without knowing that it is NOT part of the adhan or Iqamah. When you say it, you must have knowledge that it is NOT part of the adhan.

#25 Orion

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 02:06 PM

If we recite "Ash hadu anna Amiral Mu'minina 'Aliyyan Waliyyullah" in prayers, will it be okay or prayer will be baatil?

Salam o Alekum,

I dont think "Ash hadu anna Amiral Mu'minina 'Aliyyan Waliyyullah" is said in the actual prayers (Salat). However it is said in Adhan and Aqamah before the prayers with the niat of qurba't.

What is said durung the prayers (salat) is the Salawat i.e. "Allahumma sale ala Mohammad wa alay Mohammad".

Khuda Hafiz



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