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"Does God Not Exist?" Part 2

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Does God not exist?

No.

Thanks.

If I can be of assistance on this or any other matter, please advise.

(salam)

Best argument ever ;)

P.S you stated a double-negative.

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Best argument ever

I'm borrowing from the Theist "because I said so" argument. Additionally, I need present no proof of my claim. You are required to bring disproof. See? It's all so easy.

P.S you stated a double-negative.

No. The reply "no", to "Doesn't god not exist" would be a double negative in reference to posing a question. My reply was perfectly acceptable.

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Br. Bahlool, that's an understatement lol. InshaAllah I'll post details on the debate when I have the time. The DVD is definitely worth buying, this debate was much more interesting and heated compared to the first.. transcript will be available in a week or so inshaAllah.

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Salam Alaykum.

For those of you who did not attend the debate, here’s some of what happened:

On the Theist side, Michael Corey used many scientific arguments, he got into many names of Atheists who concluded that the “Big Bang” was impossible. He cited many arguments from his book, “The God Hypothesis” and seemed very prepared. He started his opening statement with (not verbatim) “Peace be upon you, that is the most perfect way to greet.” Every time Br. Hassanain made a good point, he would raise his hands or nod his head lol. Overall he was very enthusiastic. Initially, he was representing the Christian faith, but during his rebuttal he mentioned that (not verbatim), “I thought I was alone, in another faith, until I realized it matched the Islamic teachings.” I'm hoping he recites his shahadah soon :) He constantly used the term "Allah" rather than "God."

Br. Hassanain Rajabali was phenomenal, as usual.. he was first to speak, made a calm, concise opening statement. During rebuttal he creamed the Atheists, and although the rules were “no salawaats, no clapping, until AFTER the speaker is finished” there was a lot of applauding and salawaats, full of energy. During this first rebuttal, he seemed a little emotional, after Dan Barker’s “angry” comments. At one point, an Atheist got up and began yelling stubbornly “Let me just say one thing!!” until security had to calm him down lol. Br. Hassanain came up with some excellent arguments, using Qur’anic verses.. I won’t spoil it for you. Overall the crowd was unbelievable. 1,000 very hyper individuals.

Dan Barker.. hmm, what can I say. He started off terribly. If I were a Muslim contemplating Atheism, I would definitely pull back. He began with “you people who believe in God are WRONG.. You are WRONG” and ended with “Atheism stands” and a small block of atheists (40 or so) would begin their lauding and whistling. Barker was a fitnah monger. He basically stated, “Corey, you believe in Jesus as the son of God and Hassanain, you believe in one God, you two cannot even settle the existence of God.. and we know there are the crusades” he went on about how Theists cannot come to one conclusion and are continuously fighting and killing each other, "how are we supposed to feel about this?"

Richard Carrier was a talking computer. He looks and sounds like a genius. He presented himself very well and never got emotional. He brought up many scientific arguments, most of which were refuted by Hassanain and Corey. His arguments were based on the "black holes" in the universe? He went a little deep at some points, too much physics. Unlike Dan Barker, he read and even wrote a review on "The God Hypothesis." Very prepared. He got a little sensitive towards the end when he stated, "you guys are mean" after acclaiming the organizers in general.

I think the man in the worst position was Riyaaz the moderator who presented himself very professionally and overall did a great job. "I knew I was going to be in the hot seat, but I didn't realize it would be this hot!" lol. Towards the end he stated (not verbatim): "As we exit let's please try not to be too violent.. as a matter of fact let's try not to be violent at all."

Alhamdulillah, overall it was a success. Some of the things a few people complained about was the emotional parts (which Dan Barker initiated from his opening statement) and the rudeness of some of the audience members from both sides. I won't spoil the rest for you, I do recommend you get a copy :)

It was somewhat of a mini-Shiachat meeting. Sisters ya_imam_mehdi, Kaneez-e-zahra, GenuFlecTioN (did I get the caps right this time?), Guest_Sister, Rahadi (who doesn't post often), and sister zeinabulhawraa whom I sat next to attended. Sis zeinabulhawraa was so enthusiastic throughout the debate that I can almost swear her back never touched the seat lol mashaAllah. It was nice meeting sisters Genu, Kaneez, and zeinabulhawraa, inshaAllah we can meet again soon :) Brother KingFahad also attended. I hope you guys had fun and learned something. Feel free to comment on the debate as well.

Wassalam.

Edited by faithmuslima

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Best argument ever

I'm borrowing from the Theist "because I said so" argument. Additionally, I need present no proof of my claim. You are required to bring disproof. See? It's all so easy.

(salam)

Well, since you argue that God "cannot" exist the onus is also on your side. If you disagree that God "cannot" (i.e. you are an agnostic rather than an atheist) exist then please provide a satisfactory criteria for a "possible" God to exist.

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(salam)

fatihmuslima or kingfahad, I have listened to some of the debate online. But I want to buy the DVD. When will it be available? I need it ASAP. I am in the UK, so do they deliver it to there as well? Please tell me how I can order it.

Jazakumallah khairan.

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What no brothers attended ;)

I know of a couple :-) No... not me but someone VERY close to me.

I'm glad the debate went well. MashAllah. The selection of the (mono)theists was superb. May Allah grant them more wisdom. Ameen.

Now can I get a copy of the video of the FIRST debate? /*someone*/ took the copy of the DVD with them to college. There are some people in Saint Louis that are dying to watch the first debate.

Audio link I have, but I need one of the video.

Oh and the volunteers, good work :)

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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(salam)

Alhamdulillah I just wanted to note that the YMA and the Tawheed Inst. did an amazing job at organizing this successful event, Jazakum'Allah kheir insha'Allah. I personally enjoyed the debate very much, just as sister Faithmuslimah said.......

sister zeinabulhawraa whom I sat next to attended. Sis zeinabulhawraa was so enthusiastic throughout the debate that I can almost swear her back never touched the seat lol mashaAllah.

I must say it was difficult for me to sit still. It did get a little heated up near the end. I found it funny how when the thiests made a good point a crowd of 1000 clapped and recited salawat whereas when the athiests did a crowd of 40 screamed as loud as they can.

It was a pleasure to of met sister Faithmuslimah as well as sit next to her... to bad I didn't get the chance to meet anyone else, insha'Allah next time. It was a nice experience and I suggest to whom ever didn't listen to it yet to do so :).

Fee amanillah

Zeinab :)

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salams,

I agree that in the end the thiests won the debate, but in the first round the Athiests were winning handedly!

I had dinner with all 4 of the debaters after the event and had a chance to chat with them on the issues.

I think that enough was said about Br. Hassanain...no need for me to get into any details about our chats...he is amazing and may Allah reward him.

I asked Dr. corey, in a very blunt way, about his beliefs in Trinity, Original sin and other beliefs that main stream Christianity had.

He anwered saying: "orginal Sin is blasphamy, and there is no go but Allah, the one, the creater..."

He talked as if he were a Muslim....!!!!

I was asked to take Dan barker to the Airport, but I couldnt get myself to do it. Everytime I spoke to him, or came close to him, he seemed like no more than a hollow body walking like a zombie. I was repulsed by him negative "Evil" auora.

As for Richard Carrier, he was like a talking robot, like others have already mentioned. He was a more open minded type of a person unlike Dan barker. At the dinner, the chats we had with him, really affected him. He listened to the rules, laws, and practices of Shia Islam and was amazed. He had never heard of this stuff before. I ask that Allah, put him on the straight path of the true Islam, so that he can be used as a weapon against the godless "humans" on earth.

I was one of the organizers and alhamdulillah, the muslims carried themselves with professionalism. I was happy to give a lending hand and cant wait until the next time.

I will post more later.

wsalam

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Salam Alaykum.

I was one of the organizers

Small world, can't quite figure out who you are.

Now can I get a copy of the video of the FIRST debate?

Yes. Email tickets@madressa.org for more info.

alhamdulillah, the muslims carried themselves with professionalism. I was happy to give a lending hand and cant wait until the next time.

I'm not certain that there will be a "Part 3," however, there may be a (something along the lines of) "Is Jesus a Prophet or the Son of God?" sometime in Sept.

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Salaamun 'Alaikum,

Great debate! Worth the 6-hour drive :) Dan Barker didn't have much substance. He pretty much said what he said last year. Almost word for word. Carrier was a bit better. Barker tried attacking Corey with the whole trinity and son of God concept but he found out later Corey did not hold that belief. Cross examination was great, wish it was longer. Me and my friend sat in the wrong place! We were surrounded by a bunch of aetheists. Very rude! One of them actually started booing when Bro Hassanain did his rebuttal but then my friend gave a loud salawat - yes we broke the rules :)), but we had no choice. Took a lot of patience but alhamdulillah it was nice. It was very well-organized. Organizers did a great job. The youth was very good.

Dearborn is great. You get stared at if you DON'T wear hijab. Had some good food and met some good people - i met Imam Qazwini's son :) and others from the youth group.

Wa Salaam,

Abbas

PS: If anyone wants a recording of the lecture Bro Hassanain gave the second day - PM me.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I listented to the debate today (ya ali!) we won I think. ;)

But there was onr part to the debate that I could not understand where the Mod. continuously told someone to sit down. Who was he talking to? I hope it wanst the Muslims. :squeez: also I think that the only place where Brother Hassanain didnt explain well wes when Dan barker asked about volcanos. But then again he only had 1min and 14 sec to relpy to the question.

btw...here is the link to whole debate...

the whole thing

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Salam Alaykum.

But there was onr part to the debate that I could not understand where the Mod. continuously told someone to sit down. Who was he talking to? I hope it wanst the Muslims.

Actually it was an Atheist, former Muslim who got up and simply would NOT sit down until the Mod continuously tried to calm him down and security approached him lol.

Edited by faithmuslima

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