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alidu78

Imam Ali (as) knew the Quran as a baby ?

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Salam aleykoum, 

I read some narrations talking about the fact that imam Ali (as) knew the Quran even when he was only a little child before the coming of jibreel (as). Personnaly I don't have problems with this beliefs however I would have some questions about that.

So imam Ali (as) and prophet Muhammad (saws) were already Muslims before jibreel came if they already knew the Quran ? If yes so why they didn't preach Islam before ? 

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26 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

So imam Ali (as) and prophet Muhammad (saws) were already Muslims before jibreel came if they already knew the Quran ? If yes so why they didn't preach Islam before ? 

Salam it about proper time for announcing of prophethood & Immamate that must taken with proper timing.

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43 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam it about proper time for announcing of prophethood & Immamate that must taken with proper timing.

So finally they were already Muslims or not ? 

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1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Yes, Imam Ali (as) and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) are guided by the direct command of Allah. Therefore the Quran being revealed didn't make them Muslims.

I believe the exact timing of when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) decided to make the message of Islam public, was according to the plan of Allah.

Thank you for the answer however there is something I don't really understand. How they could be non Muslim if the Quran is already known to them ? 

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40 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

Thank you for the answer however there is something I don't really understand. How they could be non Muslim if the Quran is already known to them ? 

They are guided by the direct command of Allah. Don't mistake the guidance we 'fallible beings' receive. The Quran is only there for our guidance, not to guide Imam Ali (as) or Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), as they are already guided by the command of Allah - such that Allah intends something to be, and it is. 

Therefore the religion of Imam Ali (as) and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the religion of Allah, which doesn't in anyway imply that they were non-believers.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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4 hours ago, alidu78 said:

Salam aleykoum, 

I read some narrations talking about the fact that imam Ali (as) knew the Quran even when he was only a little child before the coming of jibreel (as). Personnaly I don't have problems with this beliefs however I would have some questions about that.

So imam Ali (as) and prophet Muhammad (saws) were already Muslims before jibreel came if they already knew the Quran ? If yes so why they didn't preach Islam before ? 

1.  The answer of the first part is quite obvious in the light of the hadith of the prophet saaw that "I am the city of knowledge and Ali AS is his gate".

2. The second part has already been responded that the proper time comes as per will be Allah swt. It reminds me the appearance of Imam Mahdi AS is also the plan of Allah swt and  We are waiting for imam as per Thy plan.

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

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9 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

So Sayed Qazwini make a mistake because on one of his video he said that Imam Ali (as) was the first to convert to islam at 12 years.

Interesting, that's the thing, these statements can be pretty misleading. I don't think Sayed Qazwini meant 'converting' in a sense that Imam Ali (as) was a non-Muslim before and then he converted to Islam. Maybe, he meant that Imam Ali (as) was the first person to support Propet Muhammad(pbuh) in conveying the message of Islam. I donno, this is my take.

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Correct. Everything that the 'City of Knowledge' knows then its 'Gate' knows too.

Infact recently i watched in brother Mohamed Moussa's (Eleyoun) video that when Angel Jibraeel came with the first Revelation to our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) it was Jibraeel who was feeling uneasy to reveal the Ayah. Actually he was our Prophet (pbuh) who said 'Iqra/Recite' to Jibraeel and not the vice versa. Then Jibraeel recited further easily.

 

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What's the actual definition of the term "Muslim"? Last I read the term translates as "one who submits to the will of God". Based on that definition then every Prophet that came before the Holy Prophet (AS) was already a "Muslim", right?

As far as Imam Ali (AS) already knowing the Quran from childhood...is it possible that he already knew the fundamental concepts which the Quran teaches us? I'm not talking about being a Hafiz in the sense that you know the Quran verbatim but more importantly to have an innate understanding of the message on an intellectual basis which the Quran is conveying. If that is the case then yes, Imam Ali (AS) would have been born "knowing" the Quran on a conceptual and fundamental basis even before they were revealed to the Holy Prophet (AS).

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So i have a question about this. 

You have said that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh and family) knew the Quran before it was revealed. Let's take the incident of when the jews asked the Prophet about the people of the cave. The Prophet did not know, and asked Allah, however there was quite a delay, if i remember correctly up to two weeks i think. Isn't there a contradiction here? The prophet is going and asking for something he already knows, and even then the revelation from Allah is delayed (Surah Khaf)....? 

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34 minutes ago, YAli said:

think. Isn't there a contradiction here? The prophet is going and asking for something he already knows, and even then the revelation from Allah is delayed (Surah Khaf)....? 

He knew the truth when they asked him but he didn't answer it without permission from Allah if he said it immediately so it was not necessary to record it in Quran but this delay the answer remainder for eternity.  

Certainly the outside of the Qur’an is wonderful and its inside is deep (in meaning). Its wonders will never disappear, its amazements will never pass away and its intricacies cannot be cleared except through itself.

وَإِنَّ القُرآنَ ظَاهِرُهُ أَنِيقٌ وَبَاطِنُهُ عَمِيقٌ، لاَ تَفْنَى عَجَائِبُهُ، وَلاَتَنْقَضِي غَرَائِبُهُ، وَلاَ تُكْشَفُ الظُّلُمَاتُ إلاَّ بِهِ.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-18-when-problem-put

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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.. قال ثم دخل رسول الله (صلى الله عليه و آله)، فلما دخل اهتز له أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) و ضحك في وجهه، و قال السلام عليك، يا رسول الله، و رحمة الله و بركاته. قال ثم تنحنح بإذن الله (تعالى)، و قال «بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ قَدْ أَفْلَحَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ هُمْ فِي صَلاتِهِمْ خاشِعُونَ» إلى آخر الآيات. فقال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه و آله) قد أفلحوا بك، و قرأ تمام الآيات إلى قوله «أُولئِكَ هُمُ الْوارِثُونَ الَّذِينَ يَرِثُونَ الْفِرْدَوْسَ هُمْ فِيها خالِدُونَ» فقال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه و آله) أنت و الله أميرهم، تميرهم من علومك فيمتارون، و أنت و الله دليلهم و بك يهتدون... .
 

Then the Prophet (pbuh) approached the Prophet (peace be upon him) entered to Imam Ali (as); when the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH & HP) intercepted himself in the arms of his mother, he  laughed at the face of the Prophet and saluted the Prophet and said, "The peace and blessings of Allah on you." Then, Ali (as), with the permission of God, swallowed his voice in the chest and then said

 «بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ قَدْ أَفْلَحَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ هُمْ فِي صَلاتِهِمْ خاشِعُونَ»تا اخ

Until the end, then the Messenger of Allah said that the believers will succeed through you; and read the continuation of it.

أُولئِكَ هُمُ الْوارِثُونَ الَّذِينَ يَرِثُونَ الْفِرْدَوْسَ هُمْ فِيها خالِدُونَ

 

 

Then, the Prophet (sa) said: "Ali, I swear you are the Emir of the believers. You are leading them on the basis of their bondage, and they also accept your Majesty. You are their guide and they are guided by you."


But as to the reliability of this hadith:

This narrative has been quoted in three ways by Ahmad ibn Sha'zān, the late Sheikh Tusi, who quoted them in the book Emalī. In one way, from the words of Imam Sadiq (as), he has been quoted as saying by his great fathers.
Perhaps all the narratives who are in the document of this hadith can not be taught. But on the assumption of the authenticity of the narrative, the content of this hadith is defensible and acceptable. Although we do not insist on this proof of this. However, if someone accepts the Hadith document, its content can be defended and accepted

This hadith has been quoted in the book "Amali" on page 708 of Dar al-Qaq-e-Qom; written by Sheikh Tusi, a scholar of the 4th and 5th centuries. And also in the book Bihar al-Anwar, v. 35 p. 36; this narrative is also narrated.

http://www.askquran.ir/showthread.php?t=25165

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