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Enlightened Follower

Men in the West are becoming Feminized

Reza

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The focus of this topic is men becoming effeminate. This is not a discussion of feminism or women's rights, or even of women becoming masculine. Please stay on topic.

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2 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

The main issue is there are body positive movements for women, women are encouraged to be whatever they want even if make bad decisions. On the other hand men are required to perform, construct roads, take all the labor intensive jobs and Western society disrespects them and encourages them to become more feminine and emotional and when that advice doesn’t work negative consequences result and men become even more frustrated.

This wave of extreme feminism has lead to herbivore men in Japan and Men Going Their Own Way or MGTOW who avoid women all together unfortunately.

 

I do agree that some radical feminists are going too far and have distorted the actuall meaning of feminism. Feminism means the equality between men and women. We know they are not the same physically, but feminism demands that men and women are treated equally, I.e they both have a right to education, to work, to earn the same etc. But some radical feminists have taken it too far and have ironically become sexist themselves against men. 

Linking back to the physical differences between men and women, it's only natural that men take the labor intensive jobs because they are better equipped for them physically. That doesn't mean that only men take the labour intensive jobs, it just that only a minority of women consider themselves fit enough to do them.  I don't understand where the unfairness is here. 

Also, being emotional is not a feeling restricted only to women. Men cry too, they get upset and angry too. Men go through the same emotions, but society has taught them to silence those emotions because it's "unmanly". Encouraging men to express their emotions can only be seen as right. I don't understand what you mean by "that advice doesn't work".

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43 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

The main issue is there are body positive movements for women, women are encouraged to be whatever they want even if make bad decisions. On the other hand men are required to perform, construct roads, take all the labor intensive jobs and Western society disrespects them and encourages them to become more feminine and emotional and when that advice doesn’t work negative consequences result and men become even more frustrated.

This wave of extreme feminism has lead to herbivore men in Japan and Men Going Their Own Way or MGTOW who avoid women all together unfortunately.

[Mod Note: Excessively long quote was shortened in length.]

If you want a body positive movement for men why don't you start one? Thats what women did? Men face many burdens but it is not up to women to fix it for them!

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note in the quote.

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3 hours ago, LaurenW said:

If you want a body positive movement for men why don't you start one? Thats what women did? Men face many burdens but it is not up to women to fix it for them!

It's been tried it's not that simple no one in society has sympathy for men, they are required to perform.

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It is about how strong someone is.I agree that somewhere women are exaggerating with feminism but if a man comes to the point where he is not feeling manly enough is because he is not strong enough. They lack self respect. And they have not found their place in the society. It would be wrong to  blame women in this scenario  because women don't stand on the corner of a street  and assault a man or abuse him to make  him feel little.Because when women have to face similiar challenges thats when she starts being strong and starts speaking.and it is a man's world that why even when a woman speaks out she is declared a wanna be faminist because only a man has the right to be strong.Women are supposed to endure in silence. Men has created the world we are living in today.The feminism policy is famous in the wrong part of the world and for all the wrong reasons. Feminism is not about being liberal as it is believed in most of the asian countries. But it is about respect. Women demand and deserve respect.they need to be heard.If you give a woman the respect she deserves she won't even have to go for the feminism tag because then everything will be all right on its own.We live in a world where women go as high to even lead a country but in the same countries men are bullying women.there are job issues.wage issues.abuse issues.Men are raping them.burning them,killing them and what not.so thats what needs to change.A woman must be listened and respected so that she doesn't has to speak louder for her sake and be labeled.

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8 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

It's been tried it's not that simple no one in society has sympathy for men, they are required to perform.

And even for this only men are to be blamed. It's too late now.they did everything wrong for centuries and it's not women fault if the men of this generation are weak.and this is hilarious that men are required to perform...women are doing the same hard work as men. You said it just like in my family. They would tell us..teach us how to serve a man when he comes home from work...Why ? Doesn't the woman work hard in the house or even outside of the house if required. Do you even offer her a glass of water when she comes home from work or has worked all day in the kitchen or house ? Women have been enduring for so long and men just started to taste their own medicine and they are turning feminine.It's actually funny.At the end i think that Allah made Men superior but a woman has more inner strength.she waits to stand up for herself when all the boats have burned. While a man cannot endure even an insult pronounced by a woman.

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4 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

The main issue is there are body positive movements for women, women are encouraged to be whatever they want even if make bad decisions. On the other hand men are required to perform, construct roads, take all the labor intensive jobs and Western society disrespects them and encourages them to become more feminine and emotional and when that advice doesn’t work negative consequences result and men become even more frustrated.

This wave of extreme feminism has lead to herbivore men in Japan and Men Going Their Own Way or MGTOW who avoid women all together unfortunately.

 

Body positivity is primarily due to higher obesity rates and serve as counter-culture to female narrow demands of attractiveness and deeply-rooted Anglo-Saxon ideals. (Skinny, blonde, fair skinned.) 

Besides, Islam teaches society that men should not judge a woman by what she looks like, but by her Akhlaq, Deen, and character. Body Positivity is, in essence, an attempt to teach the same thing although it’s message might not be clearly communicated. 

In the end, men and women come in all shapes and sizes and skin tones and faces. Allah created variety within the human race. Although obesity is a controllable state, many people lack proper knowledge and resources on how to maintain a healthy weight.

And, more importantly, men should accept women for what she looks like. There’s always someone more attractive and younger, hotter, etc. But what matters is the companionship and bond that has been created by a husband and wife. A wife will bear the pain of children, a product of your love, so how can men turn their backs on their wives after a little (or a lot) of weight gain? 

That’s what Body Positivity teaches. No matter who you are, how you present yourself, or what you look like, you deserve to be loved, and respected, treated humanely. And that the right person will love you. You can find love. If you don’t like fat women, then find someone who meets your standards of beauty, but don’t expect people to conform. Many heavier women, despite being louder and more confident in voicing their opinions, actually suffer from very low self-esteem and posses a negative self-image. Telling a fat woman to not hold onto to Body Positivity might make her hate herself even more. 

This is coming from a thinner woman, who has lost a lot of weight three years ago, and I’ve kept it off. (50 pounds.) 

 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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Brother, what you see on social media does not represent real life. Sit down and actually talk to married men/other women.

With regards to bigger women/men, I think obesity is a result of more than just poor choices. There is an underlying cause, whether a medical or mental health problem. These need to be addressed. Both genders should have access to support communities.

I think what needs special attention are male victims of domestic abuse....

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I tend to learn what is the meaning of man to be a man and a woman to be a woman from Al Qur'an and Hadist point of view.

What is exactly the job inherently given by Allah SWT to a man and/or a woman. And if his job is not fulfilled then is he still a man and/or a woman ?

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1 hour ago, yusur317 said:

I think what needs special attention are male victims of domestic abuse....

I agree, feminism does not tend to recognize this phenomenon. Jordan Peterson covers many of the aspects wrong with feminism, wage gap theory etc.

If we need to gain something such as women’s rights we should do so from an Islamic frame and not a secular materialist point of view, feminism promotes LGBTism and other ideas that have no basis in science but rather cultural norms.

Khomeini also condemns feminism for this very reason it produces narcissistic ideologues who bash men for simply existing.

If I see a problem in society i.e poverty I’m not going to create an ideology that cannot be questioned such as Anti-povertism etc

Many men have gotten so desperate as to seek mail order brides from Asia and East Europe, but once they get here they adopt American culture and change completely.

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4 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

I agree, feminism does not tend to recognize this phenomenon. Jordan Peterson covers many of the aspects wrong with feminism, wage gap theory etc.

If we need to gain something such as women’s rights we should do so from an Islamic frame and not a secular materialist point of view, feminism promotes LGBTism and other ideas that have no basis in science but rather cultural norms.

Khomeini also condemns feminism for this very reason it produces narcissistic ideologues who bash men for simply existing.

If I see a problem in society i.e poverty I’m not going to create an ideology that cannot be questioned such as Anti-povertism etc

Many men have gotten so desperate as to seek mail order brides from Asia and East Europe, but once they get here they adopt American culture and change completely.

There are certainly men who are victims of domestic abuse, though it is much, much lower compared to the violence faced by women. The job of feminism is to liberate women so why would it focus on male suffering? You are continuously seeking to blame women and/or feminism for men's choices and actions even though we live in a society that vastly privileges men over women. I agree that men need to have better emotional support, space to talk about their feelings, vulnerabilities and body issues... these things are necessary to grow up to be mentally healthy adults. Though I suspect men acting in these ways is what you are calling feminization, the thing that would solve your issues is precisely what you are railing against.

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How does the assertion that men are "becoming more feminine" become a battle of the sexes?

Why not just talk about the alleged feminization of men?  

Can we start by defining what is "feminine"? Maybe also as a counter, let's talk about what is "masculine"?  I actually don't know.  I think typically it's a feminine trait to have greater empathy, but that's a positive trait. Men gaining it would not be a loss, but I see no evidence that anyone's empathy is increasing.  If anything, our society is losing capacity for empathy. Broader shoulders and greater physical strength is a masculine trait, right?  Is that being lost?  What else?

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20 hours ago, Amira00 said:

I do agree that some radical feminists are going too far and have distorted the actuall meaning of feminism. Feminism means the equality between men and women. We know they are not the same physically, but feminism demands that men and women are treated equally, I.e they both have a right to education, to work, to earn the same etc. But some radical feminists have taken it too far and have ironically become sexist themselves against men. 

Linking back to the physical differences between men and women, it's only natural that men take the labor intensive jobs because they are better equipped for them physically. That doesn't mean that only men take the labour intensive jobs, it just that only a minority of women consider themselves fit enough to do them.  I don't understand where the unfairness is here. 

Also, being emotional is not a feeling restricted only to women. Men cry too, they get upset and angry too. Men go through the same emotions, but society has taught them to silence those emotions because it's "unmanly". Encouraging men to express their emotions can only be seen as right. I don't understand what you mean by "that advice doesn't work".

3

Assalamun Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.

Mashallah a very interesting discussion.  According to radical feminists especially in the West, "Men is the enemy". I am pretty sure some men are responsible for gender inequality etc. However, I think the real enemies are legal injustice and unfair stigmas. There is a need to eliminate the real enemies in order to achieve gender equality etc....

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13 hours ago, notme said:

How does the assertion that men are "becoming more feminine" become a battle of the sexes?

That’s the natural progression these discussions seem to take.

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10 hours ago, Reza said:

That’s the natural progression these discussions seem to take.

It's counterproductive. That's why I pointed it out and suggested a redirection. 

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2 hours ago, Reza said:

You can’t alter the natural course...

Yes you can. 

Ever heard of a scientist by the name of Mendel? By selecting which characteristic you want to encourage, you can increase the incidence of that characteristic. 

Assuming dialogue works like genetics. 

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Men can be feminine, transgender, gay, I don't care as long as they are not abusive. I would love to live in a world where I don't have to live in fear for my safety and my sister's safety. Even if it means all men in that world are gay or married to few promiscuous women whom they LOVE. All promiscuous women deserve to be comfort brides for ALL the men they have affairs with. 

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23 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

Men can be feminine, transgender, gay, I don't care as long as they are not abusive. I would love to live in a world where I don't have to live in fear for my safety and my sister's safety. Even if it means all men in that world are gay or married to few promiscuous women whom they LOVE. All promiscuous women deserve to be comfort brides for ALL the men they have affairs with. 

If men become transgender and gay they won’t be able to defend their country or women, also suprisingly women decide the sexual market. Shaming of other women has found to be more common among women as well as preferring men who are “experienced” or have been with many women.

Higher Testosterone is also linked to higher IQ and lower rates of depression:

https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/03/14/testosterone-hormone-linked-to-higher-iq/24379.html

 

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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On 4/19/2018 at 5:33 PM, Amira00 said:

I do agree that some radical feminists are going too far and have distorted the actuall meaning of feminism. Feminism means the equality between men and women. We know they are not the same physically, but feminism demands that men and women are treated equally, I.e they both have a right to education, to work, to earn the same etc. But some radical feminists have taken it too far and have ironically become sexist themselves against men. 

Linking back to the physical differences between men and women, it's only natural that men take the labor intensive jobs because they are better equipped for them physically. That doesn't mean that only men take the labour intensive jobs, it just that only a minority of women consider themselves fit enough to do them.  I don't understand where the unfairness is here. 

Also, being emotional is not a feeling restricted only to women. Men cry too, they get upset and angry too. Men go through the same emotions, but society has taught them to silence those emotions because it's "unmanly". Encouraging men to express their emotions can only be seen as right. I don't understand what you mean by "that advice doesn't work".

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

A very interesting read....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-women-make-optimistic-country-120930431.html

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9 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Okay... so what is it you suggest? 

Should we raise all girls with the idea that women can only be housewives and work to serve their husbands so they never know about the inequality and sexism they're living in? 

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7 hours ago, Amira00 said:

Okay... so what is it you suggest? 

Should we raise all girls with the idea that women can only be housewives and work to serve their husbands so they never know about the inequality and sexism they're living in? 

No but to treat men with respect and raise women with realistic expectations rather than raising women who don’t value life and bash men. A girl in America committed suicide because her parents would not allow her to go to a party, this is insanity. 

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8 hours ago, Amira00 said:

Okay... so ...

Should we raise all girls with the idea that women can only be housewives and work to serve their husbands so they never know about the inequality and sexism they're living in? 

Of course not. Every wife and mother needs a job outside the home. lt is not only goof or their emotional health, but they can earn some of the money they are always spending.

:grin:

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