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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

Not an answer to the question.

I'm asking where is it, not the latest theory on how we know it's unchanged.

If "no originals" is enough to prove the Bible is false, then the same standard must be met by the Quran. So, originals please. If no originals show up then you have to admit to holding a double standard. 

Imam Ali was never a "commander of believers" He told the commander, "You will never see it again"...(refer to my previous posts). There is no Imam Ali version available to compare anything with. By Imam Ali's own words he promised them it was gone. It's more obscure than the past past scriptures conspiracy.

The Quran you hold dear was written 100 years after Muhammad died. It was put to memory and was one of many versions, as they were remembered. Hafs got to Mecca years before Warsh, and that determined the version you recite.

Instead of reading "And Ibrahim enjoined (wawassaa) on his sons ... 2:132" you'd be insisting, "And Ibrahim instructed/made (wa’awsaa) his sons ... 2:131"

Instead of "And many a prophet fought (qatala) ... 3.146"  You'd be saying, "And many a prophet was killed (qutila) ... 3.146." 

So... Many versions of the Quran, all very similar, none perfect to the dot. Choose one, everybody agree, call it the one and only while ignoring it's history and all others. 

You live in a very tidy box.

 

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17 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

If "no originals" is enough to prove the Bible is false, then the same standard must be met by the Quran.

About bible We dont know which known person narrated all those words about jesus , so content within can not be verified.

About Quran of imam ali as i showed to you by that link  (and you are too lazy to

read it ) the only difference was about order of revealation of each verse.

The words are the same.

@Son of Placid the variation at first was in the way of reading, ( not the wordings !!! ) but after variation in reading occured they chose the reading of Quraish tribe.

 

17 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

The Quran you hold dear was written 100 years after Muhammad died. I

Dear hypocrite ! , dont jump 100 years forward as if (like your own unknownly written bible) we dont know what has happened at that time .

During life of prophet Quran was written into papers, after his death, they started gathering of the "already written papers " and compile it into one book.

Quran of today is the result of uthmans sorting of the verses. Not sorts of imam ali.

Edited by Arminmo

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2 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

It was put to memory and was one of many versions, as they were remembered.

You are wrong.

You have proved your laziness to read websites, because this is 3rd time that im showing this, Try to read everything completely before making it like your own corrupted bible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

Site (history ) "......After Muhammad would receive revelations, he would later recite it to his companions, who also memorized it or wrote it down... "

Edited by Arminmo

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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

You are wrong.

You have proved your laziness to read websites, because this is 3rd time that im showing this, Try to read everything completely before making it like your own corrupted bible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

Site (history ) "......After Muhammad would receive revelations, he would later recite it to his companions, who also memorized it or wrote it down... "

I'm not going to spend hours on your off topic web sites.

I'm just saying, where is this Quran? The original ayats were written on bones, palm leaves, animal hides and whatever. Considering paper was only introduced to the Islamic world in the 8th century, why don't you tell me all about this "already written paper".

Where is the Quran from Imam Ali?

Where is the Quran from Urthman?

Call me whatever you like, but come with proof or stop spewing.

 

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13 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

I'm just saying, where is this Quran? The original ayats were written on bones, palm leaves, animal hides and whatever. Considering paper was only introduced to the Islamic world in the 8th century, why don't you tell me all about this "already written paper".

https://www.thoughtco.com/compilation-of-the-quran-2004545

tree branches, stones, leather, and bones.

14 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Where is the Quran from Imam Ali?

It's with imam Mahdi, and only the sorting of the verses are different than uthmans version.

 

14 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Where is the Quran from Urthman?

After the universal one was made, the rest of the Qurans were published by that sorting and was sent to all Arab countries.

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@Son of Placid don't try to be oversmart to raise a question about quran, everything has been answered. There is only one question that you are refusing to answer:

How have you tricked yourself into that unverified content religion ??

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2 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/compilation-of-the-quran-2004545

tree branches, stones, leather, and bones.

It's with imam Mahdi, and only the sorting of the verses are different than uthmans version.

 

After the universal one was made, the rest of the Qurans were published by that sorting and was sent to all Arab countries.

So you can't come up with an original Quran?

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Just now, Son of Placid said:

So you can't come up with an original Quran?

Original Quran is uthman Quran

Answer the question that I asked you.

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7 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

Original Quran is uthman Quran

Answer the question that I asked you.

Where is this original Quran?

The Urthman can't possibly be the original. His job was to decide between scripts which were real, which were not. He compiled "a" Quran, burned the rest.

You gotta know this stuff.

Edited by Son of Placid

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8 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Where is this original Quran?

The main one hasn't survived after all these years, But after that one was made, they sent qurans to all countries by that sortings.

Edited by Arminmo

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Just now, Arminmo said:

@Son of Placid you just ask question without answering back. Now it's your turn,

How have you tricked yourself into that unverified content religion ?

It's not even a proper question.

Are you sure the Urthman Quran was spread around all these countries? 

Don't tell me you are going to learn your own history from me.

This is very simple. Urthman lived at the time of Muhammad, died June 17th 656. At the time, nobody liked him. There was an anti-urthman rebellion. Hafs, wasn't born until 708. Why did Hafs have to write the Quran if it already existed in every country? Why were any of the readers even asked to recite if the Quran was there and available? 

12 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

The main one hasn't survived after all these years

What a surprise. This is your basis for accusing the Bible of corruption. Do you understand what a double standard is?

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9 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

What a surprise. This is your basis for accusing the Bible of corruption. Do you understand what a double standard is?

We know our book was gathered by which individuals there is nothing unknown in it. This is not the case with your unknownly written gospels. That contents within can not be verified.

Edited by Arminmo

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17 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

We know our book was gathered by which individuals there is nothing unknown in it. This is not the case with your unknownly written gospels. That contents within can not be verified.

So you say. You are blind with bias.

Abu Bakr never met Muhammad, He was born long after Muhammad died, yet he is the popular reader. He did not have a copy of the Quran, He was at least third party memorized, which was finally written out by Hafs. This is the Popular Quran from then til today. It is not the same as from the other readers just as honourable. It was written 100 years after Muhammad, from a recitation, not from a former physical Quran.

Your oldest physical, still around version is the Samarkand Kufic Quran which carbon dates to 8th or 9th century. It doesn't date back to Muhammad, nor Urthman, not even Hafs,  it was written after all of them were long gone. Anybody can say they are all exact, but history shows different and none can confirm absolute.

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1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

Your oldest physical, still around version is the Samarkand Kufic Quran which carbon dates to 8th or 9th century. It doesn't date back to Muhammad, nor Urthman, not even Hafs,  it was written after all of them were long gone. Anybody can say they are all exact, but history shows different and none can confirm absolute.

By this approach of yours ( show me what has remained so far after 1400 years!! ) You are just fooling yourself. Then you skip 700 hundreds forward after prophet, as if there is no written history about it during that time. You hypocrite !!

By the way, your joke about Abu bakr was so Funny !!! Read history old man (not what just has remained !! )

Edited by Arminmo

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9 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Wait a minute, whaaaaaaaat ???!!!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr

That would be Abū Bakr aṣ-Ṣiddīq, the first Muslim from outside the family.

The reader was Abu Bakr `Asim, which is why you see the Quran called Hafs-an-Asim. You actually thought that was a joke...The only funny part is you learning your history from me. Actually, it's not that funny. You should know this stuff.

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3 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

it's not that funny. You should know this stuff

Hi it was a misunderstanding we refer to Abubakr  just for first caliph .

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