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7 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

@Quisant I'm still waiting for you to justify your claim that I depicted the logic of Athiests in an unfair way?

According to sociologists Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera's review of numerous global studies on atheism, there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world's population), with China having the most atheists in the world (200 million convinced atheists).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

In your opening post you said:
"Athiests believe that complexity doesn't require an intelligent creator. They also feel that thiests try to impose design upon anything which seems complex."

How many atheists do you know who believe or feel what you said? 10, 100, 1000, more?

A gross generalization is always an unfair depiction of somebody or other.

Feel free to have the last word but I will not respond. If you still have a problem with my objection do not 'message' me, report me to a Moderator. 

*


 

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24 minutes ago, Quisant said:

Athiests believe that complexity doesn't require an intelligent creator. They also feel that thiests try to impose design upon anything which seems complex."

I brought up a certain argument or statement that some athiests use (not implying that all of them do), and wanted to simply tackle it. Do you expect me to state 100 different arguments on a single thread ?

Therefore don't always make yourself a victim - it is often an excuse to escape an argument. 

It is also surprising that you were reinforcing that logic which you apparently found "an unfair depiction" by using examples, instead of correcting me with the "mainstream Athiest logic".

Anyway lets just end this, not worth it at all. I hope I didn't offend you at any point, I do apologize If I did.

Also, I won't report you (makes no sense for me to) nor will I messge you (not that I've ever messaged you before).

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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Excuse me for late entry :D

Allow me to quote here something atheistic! 
 

Quote

Does God command what is morally right because it is right, or is it right because God commands it?

If God commands what is right because it is right, then rightness appears to be determined by moral standards that are independent of God's commands, and that God himself is morally required to obey, calling into question his status as Supreme Being. On the other hand, if what is right is right because God commands it, then there are no moral constraints on what God commands, rendering morality completely arbitrary: even horrific actions would be deemed right. This modernized Euthyphro dilemma can be converted into an argument against the existence of the God of traditional monotheism, a sovereign creator. Although this Socratic argument does not refute God's existence as a Supreme Being, it nevertheless underscores a serious challenge to theists who argue that morality requires the truth of theism

Your comments...

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On 3/23/2018 at 11:34 AM, Quisant said:

If it is an assumption it is a much lesser one than assuming He exists.

But mine was a response to the original assumption that complex things need a creator to which I replied that God is complex and therefore He too must need a creator.

Even if one grants that God may be nonphysical. He is complex. Functional complexity is measured by the level of intelligence/consciousness and abilities. An omnipotent and omniscient being is thus ultimately functionally complex. Thinking, rationality, consciousness, and volition are complex processes that could not, by any means, arise by chance. 

Actually, not.

Because the mere existence of the One and the Ony Creator of everything can be reasoned with .... through observation, experience, and examples of our daily lives. 

However, the existence of a complex Creator is something you have assumed out of thin air; in fact, the only way you presumed the Creator as a complex physical entity was on the grounds that the creation is also a complex physical being.

In your material world, when you add complexities to a Creator, what you do not understand is that you are limiting the Creator. The Shia School does not attach such limits to the One and the Only Creator. 

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13 hours ago, Abbas. said:

Actually, not.

Because the mere existence of the One and the Ony Creator of everything can be reasoned with .... through observation, experience, and examples of our daily lives. 

However, the existence of a complex Creator is something you have assumed out of thin air; in fact, the only way you presumed the Creator as a complex physical entity was on the grounds that the creation is also a complex physical being.

In your material world, when you add complexities to a Creator, what you do not understand is that you are limiting the Creator. The Shia School does not attach such limits to the One and the Only Creator. 

The technical name worth noting for this is called “Divine Simplicity”.  It isn’t only “Shi’a”.  This is universally acknowledged in all wisdom traditions from the Greek, Indian, Chinese and Arab/Persian Mystics.  

To reference Imam Ali (as), “the perfection of recognizing God..... is to deny Him attributes...”

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:18 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Why do Athiests feel that science is a sort of proof that God doesn't exist. They always draw a thick black line between religion and science. They often argue that the faliure to use scientific principles to explain the natural world is the reason why thiests believe in God.

Wa alaikum el selaam. 
Because of their ignorance. If one knows something about religion and science he should know that they go " hand in hand ". 
It is the Wahhabi's and such that say it is not allowed to use logic while researching religion. While I think if you truly believe that your religion is true and the truth, you do not have to fear one scientific question.

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