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Is Jehovah Witness A Mushrik?

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29 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

When you don’t know who wrote the book how can you make sure he used the right Greek word ? What’s the proof of that?

 

 

 

and I’m still on my question number 1.

whats your answer for that?

Good Night.

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12 hours ago, Arminmo said:

When you don’t know who wrote the book how can you make sure he used the right Greek word ? What’s the proof of that?

 

I lost patience with questions like you last one above, sorry. 

Now, had I known who wrote the Gospel, this person still could have made a mistake, so knowing his identity would not help. Instead of "helper", maybe he intended to write "Muhammed". Or "Paul" or "Trump" or "Putin"  However the burden of proof lies on you to show that he meant "Muhammed", not on me to prove he meant what he actually wrote. The burden of proof also lies on you to prove that Jesus recieved a Torah from God different from the one Jews now have had for 2.500 years. Had you succeded you would be world famous today!

Maybe this example will help you understand:  Mormons claim their prophet recieved Golden plates with divine revelations from God. Unfortunately God took them back before anybody else could see them.

Who has got the burden of proof? The person that say the Plates with a message from God existed , or the person that say they did not exist?  

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5 hours ago, andres said:

However the burden of proof lies on you to show that he meant "Muhammed",

I used a counterexample for both of them to prove that, but you are not getting it.

lets say suppose he wanted to write just helper, then, we go to the rest of the verse, it’s says Holy Ghost was going to teach knowledge of everything! The question is to whom??? Do you have any answer for that? No. So what exist today in gospel of John does not make sense, it’s wrong.

5 hours ago, andres said:

The burden of proof also lies on you to prove that Jesus recieved a Torah from God different from the one Jews

Again I used you your own logic,

you said torah was firstly written by humans long after Moses, so it can’t be by Moses, so it cant have exact word of god.

then jesus came, who taught the knowledge of the book to jesus??? Libraries of Jews of that time? Or god gave him knowledge of the book!

so now it makes it 2 books. One by humans (not accurate ) and one by God. ( accurate )

now the question raises: How can a book By human be as identical as a book by God ??

Edited by Arminmo

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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

 

lets say suppose he wanted to write just helper, then, we go to the rest of the verse, it’s says Holy Ghost was going to teach knowledge of everything! The question is to whom??? Do you have any answer for that? No. So what exist today in gospel of John does not make sense, it’s wrong.

 

The Holy Ghost is the helper that will help not just one single person, but ALL followers of Jesus. It does not say the HG will teach us knowldge of everything. It may nor make sense to Muslims. It does to Christians.

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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

 

you said torah was firstly written by humans long after Moses, so it can’t be by Moses, so it cant have exact word of god.

then jesus came, who taught the knowledge of the book to jesus??? Libraries of Jews of that time? Or god gave him knowledge of the book!

so now it makes it 2 books. One by humans (not accurate ) and one by God. ( accurate )

now the question raises: How can a book By human be as identical as a book by God ??

The Bible does not say Moses wrote the Torah. It does not say that Jesus recieved a Book from God either. Like all his fellow Jews, Jesus had the Torah  written by Jews 500 years earlier. The Torah that the Christian Gospels as well as the Quran speak about. Had Muhammed read it, he had found out the Jewish Torah was not of the same religion as the one he taught. That is why the Quran never says Torah is corrupted.

And yes, the Torah is not infallible, nor is the Quran or the Gospels. They are all written by humans, God never wrote a Book. 

Edited by andres

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Asalam Alaykum,

Prophet Isa (pbuh), didn't receive a new Torah, he receive the Gospel, which was given to him as wisdom and light, the correct understanding of the Torah and its applications of Law.  

"And He will teach him the Book and wisdom, the Torah and the Evangel, and [he will be] an apostle to the Children of Israel." (Al Imran 48)

"When Jesus brought the manifest proofs, he said, ‘I have certainly brought you wisdom, and [I have come] to make clear to you some of the things that you differ about. So be wary of Allah and obey me." (AL-ZUKHRUF 63) 

Such an example is the Sabbath.  Prophet Isa didn't change the Sabbath.  He taught the correct application of the Sabbath.  Such as the wisdom given to him in the words; "Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath."

 Another example was healing or helping a person on the Sabbath.  At that time the Jews prohibited do anything on the Sabbath, but prophet Isa (pbuh) taught; 

"Who of you having one sheep that fell into a pit, would not go and get it on the Sabbath, how much more worth is a man than a sheep?  So it is lawful to do a good deed on the Sabbath day."   Truly what wisdom.  Thats the gospel!  Alhumdullah!

As far a proof text that the Torah became corrupted,  the Bible book of Jeremiah 8:8 says: "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

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Understanding Christianity for muslims (Dr Chris Hwewer) part1-4

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 hour ago, Jer said:

 

As far a proof text that the Torah became corrupted,  the Bible book of Jeremiah 8:8 says: "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

And which scribes is Jeremiah speaking about? The Torah is younger than the Book of Jeremiah 

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36 minutes ago, andres said:

And which scribes is Jeremiah speaking about? The Torah is younger than the Book of Jeremiah 

Hi if you watch above videos (christiany  for muslims),it is described  & examined most of our conversations  

 

https://www.chrishewer.org

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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8 hours ago, Arminmo said:

I really want to know : when he doesnt want accept anything from muslims, what is he doing in a muslim website !!

Trying to make Muslims realise that  the Quran is written by humans, that our holy books are not infallible, that there was a time 3.000 years ago when our 3 monotheistic religions did not exist, and that one must understand them having in mind that the world has changed and that rules prescribed in old holy books were meant for a society long gone. The Muslim world would benefit from an Islamic reformation transforming Islam to modern times contributing to progress.

 

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4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

The Arabian Peninsula in 7th century (Dr Chris Hewer)

 

Thanks for the link, I had got the time to see it all. Besides from not agreeing entirely with his description of Nestorians and Arians, I think it was a good speach.

He describes Pre-Muhammed Arab religion as polytheistic, very much like Judaism was in its infancy 1.500years earlier. Dont think Shias normally agree on this. Is he Sunni?

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9 hours ago, andres said:

Trying to make Muslims realise

So how much you tried so far ? Did it work?

You are just wasting your time in this website.

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47 minutes ago, andres said:

Not on you

Not on me ?! Are you saying your "tryings" have worked on somebody ?!!!

Name at least one person that your "tryings" has worked on him ? (Otherwise, you are just wating your time in this website.)

Edited by Arminmo

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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

Not on me ?! Are you saying your "tryings" have worked on somebody ?!!!

Name at least one person that your "tryings" has worked on him ? (Otherwise, you are just wating your time in this website.)

Or you are waisting your time discussing with me. Hopefully you will soon  realise the Quran is not infallible, and begin to practise a  20th century Islam. Where Christian society has done, life have become better. 

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4 hours ago, andres said:

. Is he Sunni

No he is christian but works with shia muslim on 

Www.ahlulbayt.tv that belongs to Al-khoei foundation

 

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20 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

No he is christian but works with shia muslim on 

Www.ahlulbayt.tv that belongs to Al-khoei foundation

 

Ok. I got the impression he was Muslim because the chair he sat on looked "arabic" to me. I now understand better that he said Arabs were polytheists before Muhammed. 

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10 minutes ago, andres said:

Ok. I got the impression he was Muslim because the chair he sat on looked "arabic" to me. I now understand better that he said Arabs were polytheists before Muhammed. 

The background is a shia mosque art 

That much more you see at Iran &Iraq.

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4 hours ago, andres said:

Hopefully you will soon  realise the Quran is not infallible,

You are saying you have realised quran is not infallible?! 

And can you tell us on which information you have realised that?!

If you can't tell, dont argue on that.

( just in your dream you have see that, don't spread lies ! )

Edited by Arminmo

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9 hours ago, Arminmo said:

You are saying you have realised quran is not infallible?! 

And can you tell us on which information you have realised that?!

If you can't tell, dont argue on that.

( just in your dream you have see that, don't spread lies ! )

Because there are factual errors in the Quran. I have had this discussion long ago. If you are interested to see it is an rather old thread called something like "errors, contradictions and Quran" or something like that. It is about erroneous mathemetics when it comes to inheritance shares. It is however my experience that Muslims always will say the Quran is correct even if it would  claim that 10/3=1/3. Discussion hopeless. More problematic with the Quran however is that it is so complicated that Muslims never will agree on how to read it.

A question to you: Muslims claim Muhammeds parents were Muslim. How is this possible? Had they got a Quran, the Injeel that Muslims believe was given to Jesus, or the unknown Torah edition given to Moses?

Edited by andres

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