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Is Jehovah Witness A Mushrik?

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How the Gospels were created

Constantine then instructed Eusebius to organize the compilation of a uniform collection of new writings developed from primary aspects of the religious texts submitted at the council.

His instructions were:

"Search ye these books, and whatever is good in them, that retain; but whatsoever is evil, that cast away. What is good in one book, unite ye with that which is good in another book. And whatsoever is thus brought together shall be called The Book of Books. And it shall be the doctrine of my people, which I will recommend unto all nations, that there shall be no more war for religions' sake."
(God's Book of Eskra, op. cit., chapter xlviii, paragraph 31)

"Make them to astonish" said Constantine, and "the books were written accordingly" 

(Life of Constantine, vol. iv, pp. 36-39). 

Eusebius amalgamated the "legendary tales of all the religious doctrines of the world together as one", using the standard god-myths from the presbyters' manuscripts as his exemplars. 

Merging the supernatural "god" stories of Mithra and Krishna with British Culdean beliefs effectively joined the orations of Eastern and Western presbyters together "to form a new universal belief" (ibid.). Constantine believed that the amalgamated collection of myths would unite variant and opposing religious factions under one representative story. 

Eusebius then arranged for scribes to produce, 

"fifty sumptuous copies ... to be written on parchment in a legible manner, and in a convenient portable form, by professional scribes thoroughly accomplished in their art" 

(ibid.). 

"These orders," said Eusebius, "were followed by the immediate execution of the work itself ... we sent him [Constantine] magnificently and elaborately bound volumes of three-fold and four-fold forms" 

(Life of Constantine, vol. iv, p. 36). 

They were the "New Testimonies", and this is the first mention (c. 331) of the New Testament in the historical record.

With his instructions fulfilled, Constantine then decreed that the New Testimonies would thereafter be called the "word of the Roman Savior God" (Life of Constantine, vol. iii, p. 29) and official to all presbyters sermonizing in the Roman Empire. He then ordered earlier presbyterial manuscripts and the records of the council "burnt" and declared that "any man found concealing writings should be stricken off from his shoulders" (beheaded) (ibid.). As the record shows, presbyterial writings previous to the Council of Nicaea no longer exist, except for some fragments that have survived. 

Some council records also survived, and they provide alarming ramifications for the Church. Some old documents say that the First Council of Nicaea ended in mid-November 326, while others say the struggle to establish a god was so fierce that it extended "for four years and seven months" from its beginning in June 325 (Secrets of the Christian Fathers, op. cit.). Regardless of when it ended, the savagery and violence it encompassed were concealed under the glossy title "Great and Holy Synod", assigned to the assembly by the Church in the 18th century. 

Earlier Churchmen, however, expressed a different opinion. 
 

The Second Council of Nicaea in 786-87 denounced the First Council of Nicaea as, 

"a synod of fools and madmen" and sought to annul "decisions passed by men with troubled brains"

(History of the Christian Church, H. H. Milman, DD, 1871). 

If one chooses to read the records of the Second Nicaean Council and notes references to "affrighted bishops" and the "soldiery" needed to "quell proceedings", the "fools and madmen" declaration is surely an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Constantine died in 337 and his outgrowth of many now-called pagan beliefs into a new religious system brought many converts. Later Church writers made him "the great champion of Christianity" which he gave, 

"legal status as the religion of the Roman Empire" 

(Encyclopedia of the Roman Empire, Matthew Bunson, Facts on File, New York, 1994, p. 86).

Historical records reveal this to be incorrect, for it was "self-interest" that led him to create Christianity (A Smaller Classical Dictionary, J. M. Dent, London, 1910, p. 161). Yet it wasn't called "Christianity" until the 15th century (How The Great Pan Died, Professor Edmond S. Bordeaux [Vatican archivist], Mille Meditations, USA, MCMLXVIII, pp. 45-7).

Over the ensuing centuries, Constantine's New Testimonies were expanded upon, "interpolations" were added and other writings included (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. vi, pp. 135-137; also, Pecci ed., vol. ii, pp. 121-122). For example, in 397 John "golden-mouthed" Chrysostom restructured the writings of Apollonius of Tyana, a first-century wandering sage, and made them part of the New Testimonies (Secrets of the Christian Fathers, op. cit.). 

The Latinized name for Apollonius is Paulus (A Latin-English Dictionary, J. T. White and J. E. Riddle, Ginn & Heath, Boston, 1880), and the Church today calls those writings the Epistles of Paul. Apollonius's personal attendant, Damis, an Assyrian scribe, is Demis in the New Testament (2 Tim. 4:10). 

The Church hierarchy knows the truth about the origin of its Epistles, for Cardinal Bembo (d. 1547), secretary to Pope Leo X (d. 1521), advised his associate, Cardinal Sadoleto, to disregard them, saying, 

"put away these trifles, for such absurdities do not become a man of dignity; they were introduced on the scene later by a sly voice from heaven" 

(Cardinal Bembo: His Letters and Comments on Pope Leo X, A. L. Collins, London, 1842 reprint).

The Church admits that the Epistles of Paul are forgeries, saying, 

"Even the genuine Epistles were greatly interpolated to lend weight to the personal views of their authors" 

(Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. vii, p. 645). 

Likewise, St Jerome (d. 420) declared that the Acts of the Apostles, the fifth book of the New Testament, was also "falsely written" ("The Letters of Jerome", Library of the Fathers, Oxford Movement, 1833-45, vol. v, p. 445).

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

If it was not infallible maybe your comment would be true but it is infallible, Torah at first that revealed was correct & in narrations about Imam Mahdi (aj) said that it is hided & when he reappears he show it beside Ark of covenant ,rod of Moses &ring of Solomon to Jews to prove himself to them

This staff is the trust of Imamate . Imam Muhammad Baqir (AS) said about it: "The Moses' rod was a memorial to Adam (AS), and it was Shu'ib, and after that, came Shu'ib to Moses and is now with us; I have seen him nearby, and that was green It was like the day it was cut from the tree. When you speak with it, it speaks and is provided for Qa'im al-Muhammad (peace be upon him) and will do what Moses has done. [5]Imam Sadiq (AS) also said: Moses' crutch is with us. [6]

The Torah we have got today is the same as the one that Jesus knew and that the Jews wrote half a milennium  earlier. As I showed you, the Quran also state that Jesus knew the Torah. This was naturally the Tora that his fellow Jews were using, and that the Quran accept as the word of God. Not a Tora written 1.300BC by Moses. A time when historians agree Judaism had not yet occured.

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10 hours ago, andres said:

And how can we be certain that Uthman chose to save the correct Quran when he burned all erroneous ones?  

We don’t have such a thing about Quran called: “correct and incorrect”

uthman just Burnt those Qurans that sorting of the Surah’s were not like the one all the Muslims agreed on.

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4 hours ago, andres said:

We know that the Torah Jesus read was identical to the one Jews have today.  No corruption of the Torah according to the Quran.  

You are doing the word you used for me : cherry picking! (Quran has consistency , it’s not like bible)

you shouldn’t cherry pick from Quran, I showed you the verses that clearly are saying: “people write words with their hands and they say it’s from god, also they have concealed and revealed what ever they wanted from Torah and New Testament.”

then you show us a verse that’s saying Jesus is confirming torah. The real Torah that jesus brought and showed to Jews, was in contraction with Torah of Jews, thats the main reason Jews got in conflict with prophet jesus. (Not any other reason).

christian claim the reason of confliction of jesus with Jews was for this verse that was narrated by an unknown writer in gospel of John (claiming to be Devine! )

“He claimed that He and His Father are one (John 10:30),”

all of those verses are by unknown writers , can not be verified that if it was really word of Jesus.

thats not the reason of confliction with Jews, it’s the one I said : bringing of real Torah.

Edited by Arminmo

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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

You are doing the word you used for me : cherry picking! (Quran has consistency , it’s not like bible)

you shouldn’t cherry pick from Quran, I showed you the verses that clearly are saying: “people write words with their hands and they say it’s from god, also they have concealed and revealed what ever they wanted from Torah and New Testament.”

then you show us a verse that’s saying Jesus is confirming torah. The real Torah that jesus brought and showed to Jews, was in contraction with Torah of Jews, thats the main reason Jews got in conflict with prophet jesus. (Not any other reason).

christian claim the reason of confliction of jesus with Jews was for this verse that was narrated by an unknown writer in gospel of John (claiming to be Devine! )

“He claimed that He and His Father are one (John 10:30),”

all of those verses are by unknown writers , can not be verified that if it was really word of Jesus.

thats not the reason of confliction with Jews, it’s the one I said : bringing of real Torah.

Am I cherrypicking suras that show the Quran regards the Torah  was not corrupted? If so there must be suras that say the Torah  was corrupted. Such suras have not yet been presented to me. If they do not exist in the Quran, you cannot accuse me of cherrypicking. 

Johns Gospel being reliable or not reliable, has got nothing to do with the Qurans view on the Torah being corrupted or not.

Edited by andres

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30 minutes ago, andres said:

If so there must be suras that say the Torah  was corrupted. Such suras have not yet been presented to me.

Quran 3:187

“And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from “those” who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.”

Quran 6:91

And they did not appraise Allah with true appraisal when they said, "Allah did not reveal to a human being anything." Say, "Who revealed the Scripture that Moses brought as light and guidance to the people? You [Jews] make it into pages, disclosing [some of] it and concealing much. And you were taught that which you knew not - neither you nor your fathers." Say, "Allah [revealed it]." Then leave them in their [empty] discourse, amusing themselves.

Pay attention to the words : making into pages write with their hands and concealing. And revealing what they wanted.

Edited by Arminmo

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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

Quran 3:187

“And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from “those” who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.”

Quran 6:91

And they did not appraise Allah with true appraisal when they said, "Allah did not reveal to a human being anything." Say, "Who revealed the Scripture that Moses brought as light and guidance to the people? You [Jews] make it into pages, disclosing [some of] it and concealing much. And you were taught that which you knew not - neither you nor your fathers." Say, "Allah [revealed it]." Then leave them in their [empty] discourse, amusing themselves.

Pay attention to the words : making into pages write with their hands and concealing. And revealing what they wanted.

The Torah was written long after Moses, in the middle of the first milennium BC. This Tora has now existed for 2.500 years. This was the Torah that Jews, and Jesus had. I still have not seen any warning in the Quran that there was something wrong with it. Jews never had a Torah written by Moses. 

Edited by andres

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27 minutes ago, andres said:

The Torah was written long after Moses,

The torah long after moses, was the re-written version of torah, not the original one.

After moses, at least in 4 wars, jews got captured by enemies, they took everything from them (even the books ),

They re-write torah a millenium years after moses by memory, not from original context.

 

27 minutes ago, andres said:

This was the Torah that Jews, and Jesus had.

This was not the torah that god gave to jesus, thats what jesus wanted to say:

"When the comforter ( ahmad )comes, he shall teach you all the things! ."

Edited by Arminmo

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42 minutes ago, andres said:

The Torah was written long after Moses, in the middle of the first milennium BC. This Tora has now existed for 2.500 years. This was the Torah that Jews, and Jesus had.

Lets go by your logic,

Af first you say torah was written long after moses (not a book completely by moses , so its not by god ) , then we have a book that jesus brought (by god )

Now, we have 2 books: one written by humans (contents within not by god)  and a book by god (through jesus )

The question is : how can a book written by humans and another book by god, "can be identical" !!!!!???

Are you seeing what the problem is with your logic of comparing books?!

Edited by Arminmo

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12 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

The torah long after moses, was the re-written version of torah, not the original one.

After moses, at least in 4 wars, jews got captured by enemies, they took everything from them (even the books ),

They re-write torah a millenium years after moses by memory, not from original context.

 

This was not the torah that god gave to jesus, thats what jesus wanted to say:

"When the comforter ( ahmad )comes, he shall teach you all the things! ."

You are claiming that Jesus had not the same Torah as his fellow Jews had had for 500 years, and still have? The Torah does not say Jesus had his own very private version. 

And again; there were no Jews in the time of Moses. They were still all Kanaaneans. And the Jesus-quote you present, where did you get tthat from?

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1 minute ago, Arminmo said:

Lets go by your logic,

Af first you say torah was written long after moses (not a book completely by moses , so its not by god ) , then we have a book that jesus brought (by god )

Now, we have 2 books: one written by humans (contents within not by god)  and a book by god (through jesus )

The question is : how can a book written by humans and another book by god, "can be identical" !!!!!???

You believe Jesus recieved a special edition of the Torah. There is absolutely no documentation for this. Like the gold plates Mormons claim their prophet recieved, this is free fantasy. 

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2 minutes ago, andres said:

There is absolutely no documentation for this.

Thats the epmty space in history, constantin had to do with this.

And the quote from jesus is in John 14:26

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20 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

Thats the epmty space in history, constantin had to do with this.

And the quote from jesus is in John 14:26

You believe in histories that there is no documentation for. Have you heard that Mormons claimed heir prophet Smith recieved gold plates with mesage from God.? Unfortunately he had to return them before others could see them. I dont believe the plates are reall, Mormons do. I dont believe that God gave Jesus a Torah that nobody ever saw or heard about either. Only Muslims do.

By the way John 14:26 says:  "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

Not as you say: "When the comforter ( ahmad )comes, he shall teach you all the things! ."  Where did you find that?

(Muslims do love to insert text in brackets to make documents better fit their views. Quran translations are full of them. It is called interpolations.) 

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21 minutes ago, andres said:

By the way John 14:26 says:  "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

Not as you say: "When the comforter ( ahmad )comes, he shall teach you all the things! ."  Where did you find that?

(Muslims do love to insert text in brackets to make documents better fit their views.

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter (Ahmad), which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

We insert brackets because contents within your books can not be verified, it’s written by unknown writers. 

And that word was gathered incorrectly , it’s not comforter, it’s greek word Paraclete means Ahmad.

Edited by Arminmo

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28 minutes ago, andres said:

Muslims do love to insert text in brackets to make documents better fit their views.

Let’s go by your Christian view:

your book says Holy Ghost was going to teach something to somebody, can you tell me who that person is?

Give me your answer.

Edited by Arminmo

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35 minutes ago, andres said:

Muslims do love to insert text

I’m still waiting for you to answer my top question. Where are you???

Edited by Arminmo

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12 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter (Ahmad), which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

We insert brackets because contents within your books can not be verified, it’s written by unknown writers. 

And that word was gathered incorrectly , it’s not comforter, it’s greek word Paraclete means Ahmad.

Muslims are fantastic. Not only do they insert lots of text in brackets inthe Quran, now also in KJV. You also refer to ancient books nobody has read or seen. like the Iljeel and Moses edition of the Torah. Do youalso  believe Ants understands Hebrew?

The uncorrupted KJV say: 

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Why not consult a greek-english dictionary to find the meaning of Paraclete. Or just google the word.

 

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19 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

Let’s go by your Christian view:

your book says Holy Ghost was going to teach something to somebody, can you tell me who that person is?

Give me your answer.

 Holy spirit is a helper (=paraclete), that will help all followers of Jesus. Dont ask me if he has got arms or legs. 

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18 minutes ago, andres said:

Why not consult a greek-english dictionary to find the meaning of Paraclete.

I’m sorry I wrote the wrong that was used.

the right words that wasn’t gathered correctly was Periclytos means the praised one meaning Ahmad.

13 minutes ago, andres said:

Holy spirit is a helper (=paraclete), that will help all followers of Jesus.

Question 1) Give me the proof that Holy Spirit taught:  a)what knowledge to b) which follower of Jesus??

Edited by Arminmo

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20 minutes ago, andres said:

The uncorrupted KJV say: 

Question 2) Prove to me by historians information, that: who wrote book of John ( that makes it not corrupted)?

Edited by Arminmo

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17 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

I’m sorry I wrote the wrong that was used.

the right words that wasn’t gathered correctly was Periclytos means the praised one meaning Ahmad.

Question 1) Give me the proof that Holy Spirit taught:  a)what knowledge to b) which follower of Jesus??

Muhammed is not mentioned in Johns Gospel. No matter how many brackets you insert. Period.

Read John yourself. Then believe it or not. It is just as impossible to prove or disprove his information as to prove that Muhammeds revelations were from God. (But I think it is possible to prove that ants dont understand Hebrew)

 

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4 minutes ago, andres said:

Muhammed is not mentioned in Johns Gospel. No matter how many brackets you insert. Period.

Read John yourself. Then believe it or not. It is just as impossible to prove or disprove his information as to prove that Muhammeds revelations were from God. (But I think it is possible to prove that ants dont understand Hebrew)

 

That’s not the answer.

period.

that verse is talking about teaching of knowledge of everything by Holy Ghost.

tell me that was done by whom?

answer that.

 

Edited by Arminmo

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16 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

Question 2) Prove to me by historians information, that: who wrote book of John ( that makes it not corrupted)?

The writer of John does not reveal his name. A century after it was written it was given the title Gospel according to John. Similar story with the other three Gospels, and the many Gospels that followed in the coming centuries.

I understand you wish to change subject. If you want to know a little about the Gospels, you can find info online to start witj.

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4 minutes ago, andres said:

The writer of John does not reveal his name.

When you don’t know who wrote the book how can you make sure he used the right Greek word ? What’s the proof of that?

 

 

 

and I’m still on my question number 1.

whats your answer for that?

Edited by Arminmo

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