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Forgottenthinker

[Closed/Review]How we should think of Israel

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Any human being with a soul should condemn and despise how the IDF treats Palestinians. But just as how we as Muslims know not all of us are barbaric and terrorist like animals, not all Israeli Jews want to kill and slaughter innocent Palestinians and want to control and world through a banking system, (some of you guys think that lol). Besides many American Muslims say free Palestine but live in America which is a gigantic version of Israel, that's hypocrisy. Lets be honest here, the Israeli Jews are going no where I think its time for both sides to sit down and compromise a two state solution. Also Many Palestinian men say on camera "death to the Jews lowest of creation" and many other similar slogans so they're not all that innocent. Also they suicide bomb killing innocent civilians which is absolutely haram.

So stop saying death to Israel how would you like it if the Israeli people said on camera "death to Iran the cancer of the world" You guys would be furious and say this and that.

So sit down for once and remember, Not all Muslims are terrorists (which is absolutely true) AND not all Israeli Jews want to kill and slaughter Palestinians (which is also absolutely true). 

Salam to all of you, inshallah there will be peace in the world

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2 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Lets be honest here, the Israeli Jews are going no where I think its time for both sides to sit down and compromise a two state solution.

I think a single-state, equal rights for all is the best solution we can find, two-states would work but the reality Israel has created on the ground make it impossible without Palestine being an occupied entity forever. 

Not all Israelis are bad it is true, David Sheen is a good example of a decent Israeli. But there is something fundamentally wrong with an expansionist, settler colonial state that needs to be addressed. And yeah, Palestinians that carry out suicide bombings in Tel Aviv should be condemned, but the way the Israeli govt. handles these attacks is wrong, they make the family of the terrorist pay for it and punish them for it, and they use that issue to expand even more. Usually when there is a problem, you try to find solutions to it, an end to the oppressive policies would help the situation for sure, people tend to turn less to terrorism when they have better lives. Israel however uses these events as opportunities to scream and say see we can't make peace with these people. Then they carry on in the same fashion, and well, you get more terrorism, it's a never ending cycle then.

 

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The word of the creator of the universe is clear regarding the treatment of those who drive you out of your own land and oppress you. Furthermore we have learnt scholars who may give their opinion and clearification on the matter.

Your religiously ignorant opinion is not needed.

 

1 hour ago, Mishael said:

Usually IDF treatment is quite exaggerated on the media

Maybe you believe the IDF treatment is exaggerated out of the mouth of its own soldiers as well since you seem to know every persons opinion on every matter?

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

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2 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Palestinians never owned the land they immigrated in the time of British rule from neighboring countries. If your going to talk about driving people out of their homes why not talk about the Jewish exodus out of Arab lands please your insults are quite childish and please keep them to your self. If your going to talk about IDF please don't use a website which gives false information breaking the silence claims were refuted and I can give you evidence of their claims being refuted.

Everything that is not inline with your opinion of the truth is false, good luck to you in life. Evidence does not become evidence because you think so.

I do not stand answer for the actions of the arabs so dont ask me.

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5 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Well if you don't know much on the Arabs then your in no place to talk about the conflict. To you the truth can only be something which blindly slanders Israel am I right or wrong. The Israeli government has done some stupid stuff and have handeled things wrongly but existing as a free state isn't one of them.

I did not say I lack knowledge, I said I do not stand answer for the actions of the arabs since I am not a arab, so dont ask me and learn how to read a sentence correctly.

 

4 minutes ago, Forgottenthinker said:

You guys cannot deny that facts that when many Jews were emigrating to Israel many were brutalized and killed along the way by Arabic Muslims you have the internet at your disposal go check it up.

Aha and these muslim arabs they were shias under the correct leadership?

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5 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Aha and these muslim arabs they were shias under the correct leadership?

Brother, this has nothing to do with Shia or Sunni dont bring this up and get back to the original point

Salam

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2 minutes ago, Mishael said:

What does Shia have to do with anything? 

 

Just now, Forgottenthinker said:

Brother, this has nothing to do with Shia or Sunni dont bring this up and get back to the original point

Salam

If they are not under the right leadership then I do not expect them to follow the religion correctly. 

For example, if a wahabi blows himself up because of his ideology (based on his own accepted hadiths and scholars) is it right that they hold you as a shia responsible for his actions when your own ideology speaks against it?

When the Ahlul Bayt(as) were themselves oppressed by these "muslims" what do you expect then?

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1 minute ago, Mishael said:

According to you Shia is correct and according to Sunnis they are correct and both of you have been killing each other for a long time more Muslims died by each other's hands then

 

7 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

If they are not under the right leadership then I do not expect them to follow the religion correctly. 

 

Can we get back to the actual discussion please? If you guys want to talk about Sunni Shia issues go off to another topic respectfully thank you

Salam

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33 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Arabs never owned that land or even lived there as a majority before the early 1900s and late 1800s. And if Israel kicked out the Arabs then the Israelis are doing a pretty bad at doing it since 30% of Israel's population is Arab and legally an Arab can run as prime minister or president of Israel even. What about the Jews kicked out of Arab countries weren't there Jews in Lebanon weren't there Jews in Iraq weren't there Jews in Libya, the list goes on and on.

It's funny you mention majority in early 1900s, when "Israel" was created after WW2. So what, every Arab who lived in that land and was born there deserved to be kicked out?

So the guy who owned a farm near the West Bank and hadn't read a book in his life, who then got kicked out of his farm, deserved it?

Maybe you haven't read about the Nakba, how do you think we ended up with hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

Also, don't give me whataboutism. I'm not here to defend Iraq or Libya, but you're hellbent on defending Israel, so please don't change the topic. You have become an apologist, when you seemed objective before.

Edited by Sumerian

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10 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Any human being with a soul should condemn and despise how the IDF treats Palestinians. But just as how we as Muslims know not all of us are barbaric and terrorist like animals, not all Israeli Jews want to kill and slaughter innocent Palestinians and want to control and world through a banking system, (some of you guys think that lol). Besides many American Muslims say free Palestine but live in America which is a gigantic version of Israel, that's hypocrisy. Lets be honest here, the Israeli Jews are going no where I think its time for both sides to sit down and compromise a two state solution. Also Many Palestinian men say on camera "death to the Jews lowest of creation" and many other similar slogans so they're not all that innocent. Also they suicide bomb killing innocent civilians which is absolutely haram.

So stop saying death to Israel how would you like it if the Israeli people said on camera "death to Iran the cancer of the world" You guys would be furious and say this and that.

So sit down for once and remember, Not all Muslims are terrorists (which is absolutely true) AND not all Israeli Jews want to kill and slaughter Palestinians (which is also absolutely true). 

Salam to all of you, inshallah there will be peace in the world

The establishment of Israel by the western powers has shown to be a catastroph, but it cannot be undone and Israel has come to stay. The ambition of the present Israeli government is to clean the occupied territories from Arabs and establish a Great Israel. Fundamental Christians in USA, believing that Jesus will not come back to Earth as long as Great Israel is not established, has great influence on US foreign policy in ME. As long as Muslim states fight eachother, they are of little help to the opressed Palestinians. it is all very sad, everybody wishes to live in peace. Fundamentalists only if they can have it their own way. 

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1 hour ago, Mishael said:

The great majority of them fled their homes during the 1948 war. They did so going by the advice of their leaders, and leaders of the six armies that invaded Israel, who told them to flee for safety from the war and they can come back after the Arab armies dismantle the newly founded state of Israel. While some Jews really committed atrocities, it wasn't the widespread reality, as some seem to think - otherwise the number of dead Arabs would be as large (or larger) than the number of refugees, which not even the most ferocious anti Jewist out there can say with a straight face. When war broke out in 1948, about 600,000-700,000 Arabs left Israel because they had only been there for a couple of years or were specifically told by their leaders to leave. Most of the 750,000 Arabs who left Israel, did so on advice from the Arab leaders. So we can say Arab leaders didn’t want the Arabs in Israel to get between their Armies and the Israelis they were trying to kill. 

Now we know you are an apologist, because this is the view of a minority of historians (only a few) and even Israeli historians themselves say this is inaccurate.

Benny Morris for example, an Israeli Zionist historian does not deny claims of ethnic cleansing. Rather, justifies it;

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5262428

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24 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Actually your Arab apologists admit that nakba was a myth. Benny Morris isn't also the best historian and neither do I agree with all the stuff he says.

 

Lol, it is obvious now you don't seek an answer, you just want to parrot talking points instead of engaging on research papers.

You don't take an objective stand, you take the viewpoint which is most convenient to you. 

You don't think Israeli militias had anything to do with the exodus? What about the Deir Yassin massacre, did that also not happen?

You see I take an objective stance, I believe the Arab leaders did tell the Palestinians to leave, but that Palestinians were forced to leave as well. 

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27 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Anyone who denies Hezbollahs massacres in Syria is either ignorant, blind, or just dumb. By the way if you don't have evidence then why comment?

almost every comment you make is a copy of another comment or copy from some source you just googled or what you heard from your mom and uncle. Nothing original comes out of you, because you are not capable of being original. You are only capable of being the most annoying tool parroting the ideas which you think make you sound smart. In reality you are an extremely arrogant annoying kid. The fact that you are on here 24/7 means you have no friends. Maybe try to make some friends on a different forum where they share your "brilliant" ideas.

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6 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Ever heard of how Hezbollah starved thousands of Syrians in Madaya with their buddy Bashar Al Assad the very son of the man who occupied Lebanon the only reason why Hezbollah hasn't been called an organization of traitors is because Lebanon didn't cut relations with Syria when they had the chance. Please don't assume things I find someone who calls himself an adult throwing such childish insults is pretty low. The fact you can't prove anything you say makes me wonder how much Manar you watch.

I actually never watch manar, I sit down and talk to hizbullah face to face everyday.. we have lunch together.. and tea with shisha.. I hear their stories from Syria and watch their videos they recorded live from Syria... Most of my friends are in Syria now killing apes from Saudi Arabia... usually one of our men can kill around 30 Saudis, chechneyens, Jordanians, Lybians, all the garbage that they sent to Syria... 

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1 minute ago, Mishael said:

I don't care about Saudi or any of the rebels in Syria. But you must be really proud that your men fight to keep a tyrant in power.

Im proud my men have helped defend Syria and Lebanon from the zionist plot. So are thousands of Christians who were saved by Hizbullah in Syria.

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9 minutes ago, Mishael said:

I don't care about Saudi or any of the rebels in Syria. But you must be really proud that your men fight to keep a tyrant in power.

Assad is better than the alternative! Do you want to see christians, shi’a muslims and other minorities crucified and decapitated in public streets?! 

Edited by Wholehearted Shi'a

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10 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Yeah defending the same regime which occupied Lebanon and killed all of Lebanons important Christian leaders or imprisoned them.

You know I can answer every sentence you write,, but you dont stop.. you are like a pest... 

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1 hour ago, Mishael said:

Greater Israel...? Israel has the full power to already establish greater Israel and if Israel has cleaned Arabs from its lands then why is 30% of Israel who have better rights then in any Arab nation. Barely any of Israel's surrounding nations allow religious freedom or speech. Palestinian leadership discarded every opportunity for a real peace as we've seen again and again.

Arabs in Israel have better conditions than in Arab countries, because Israel is a nation with freedom of speach and a free press. But this does not justify Israel from stealing the land of poor Palestinians on the West Bank. 

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24 minutes ago, Wholehearted Shi'a said:

Assad is better than the alternative! Do you want to see christians, shi’a muslims and other minorities crucified and decapitated in public streets?! 

What alternative are you speaking about? Democrasy?

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56 minutes ago, kirtc said:

I actually never watch manar, I sit down and talk to hizbullah face to face everyday.. we have lunch together.. and tea with shisha.. I hear their stories from Syria and watch their videos they recorded live from Syria... Most of my friends are in Syria now killing apes from Saudi Arabia... usually one of our men can kill around 30 Saudis, chechneyens, Jordanians, Lybians, all the garbage that they sent to Syria... 

xgz9nkR.gif

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6 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

You guys cannot deny that facts that when many Jews were emigrating to Israel many were brutalized and killed along the way by Arabic Muslims you have the internet at your disposal go check it up.

You bring this point up as an argument and then when I give it context you think it is out of topic? Lol.

When the arabs are under the leadership of invalid rulers with their invalid laws, then they cannot be expected to follow the religion as it was brought to them.

So when you come to us, the shias, and bring an argument regarding the acts of non shias so as to make a point. It is like me going to a guy in Malaysia and expecting him to stand answer for the actions of the nazis during WW2.

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7 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Democracy doesn't work in the Arab world.

Tunisia fam

1 hour ago, Mishael said:

I'm not denying Israel probably did tell certain Palestinians villagers to leave if you read my comment I said that some Jews did probably commit massacres during the war and I also said that it's unlikely Palestinians all just left but to say Israel massively expelled Palestinians would be a historic lie. Deir Yassin was a battle not actually a massacre and both Arabs and Israeli sources exaggerated it each for their own purposes throughout history. I think it was a case of bad and poor handeling of the Israeli army of which civilians were killed but many Israeli organizations also spoke against the event of Deir Yassin and I think the Israeli government should take responsibility for it but at it was also a battle ground so we can't call it a massacre. Here is what a survivor of Deir Yassin says:

 

At least you agreed that Israel has some blame. Do you also criticise officials in the Netanyahu government and other right wing groups in "Israel" who call or are apologetic to genocide?

Do you also criticise some of the IDF generals and officials who talk like genocidal maniacs? 

If you do then you are better than I thought.

Btw Deir Yassin crimes were mainly committed by Zionist militias who weren't fully embedded in the IDF I believe.

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