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TheGreenWanderer

Praying Salat with Sunni's

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As-salaam Alaikum

I want to begin praying Salat according to Shia

Unfortunately in my area there's only a Sunni Masjid and I haven't met any Shia here locally. The Muslim community here is very minor.

If I pray Shia salat with them, obviously due to the differences I'm going to fall out of the salat formation with them and also they may start questioning me.

Is it better I don't attend at all and just pray at home?

 

 

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19 hours ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

As-salaam Alaikum

I want to begin praying Salat according to Shia

Unfortunately in my area there's only a Sunni Masjid and I haven't met any Shia here locally. The Muslim community here is very minor.

If I pray Shia salat with them, obviously due to the differences I'm going to fall out of the salat formation with them and also they may start questioning me.

Is it better I don't attend at all and just pray at home?

Alaikas Salaam brother, 

Question: I am 19 years old and a convert to Islam of five months. My question is, being a practitioner of Twelver Jaf'ari Islam is it permissible for me to pray behind a Sunni Imam for Salaatul-Jumu'ah and for regular congregational prayers, and is it required to prostrate on Turbah inside a mosque?

Answer: Taking part in Friday and congregational prayers of the Ahl-e Sunnat is permissible in areas where Taqiyah (dissimulation) is required. If you are not going to face a problem, you should, as far as possible, prostrate on something upon which Sajda (prostration) is permissible. Prostration on carpets in the case of Taqiyah or out of necessity is permissible and there would be no objection in it. But if you are not offering your prayers with them out of Taqiyah it is not necessary to attend their congregational prayers and you can offer your prayers separately. In any case, Friday prayers performed with them is not sufficient for Zuhr prayers. Therefore, it is necessary to perform Zuhr prayers separately.

There's absolutely no reason you should be going for any prayers behind a non shia Imam. You can offer prayers at home. 

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01154/

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I would pray at home...because I want to much rather pray openly, without fear, without judgement, without any issues and with peace of mind , where I can concentrate on Allah s.w.t and the sacrifice of Imam Hussain a.s , that he gave his head and family just so that I can bow before Allah and which allowed me to still practice this religion. end of.

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1 hour ago, peopleofchadar said:

I would pray at home...because I want to much rather pray openly, without fear, without judgement, without any issues and with peace of mind , where I can concentrate on Allah s.w.t and the sacrifice of Imam Hussain a.s , that he gave his head and family just so that I can bow before Allah and which allowed me to still practice this religion. end of.

It’s highly advisedly Ahlulbaytbayt (as) I think it was from Imam Sadiq (as)  if we can participate in prayer & funeral & other religious practices beside Sunni bro&sis sis if it not cause harm for us.

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6 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It’s highly advisedly Ahlulbaytbayt (as) I think it was from Imam Sadiq (as)  if we can participate in prayer & funeral & other religious practices beside Sunni bro&sis sis if it not cause harm for us.

ofcourse, I am not against it, nor am I saying not to participate in it..but I would like to pray in the safety and away from "bad-looks" of others

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On 2/7/2018 at 3:03 PM, Hamodiii said:

They have removed two parts of the Salah, and one of them is wajib, the other is mustahab.

As salaamun aleikum brother, can you please tell me what parts they have removed? The only thing ive noticed is that they seem to finish the prayers rather quickly, as well as not saying Bismillah out loud before  surahs. Im not sure if they are saying it quietly, i just know i dont hear it.

Thanks for any info,

W/s

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Just now, shia farm girl said:

As salaamun aleikum brother, can you please tell me what parts they have removed? The only thing ive noticed is that they seem to finish the prayers rather quickly, as well as not saying Bismillah out loud before  surahs. Im not sure if they are saying it quietly, i just know i dont hear it.

Thanks for any info,

W/s

The first fact, he says it perfectly!

Thank you!

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Personally I would stay at home, no doubts! They don't pray like us, and that means their prayer is invalid, at least for the one who knows the right path.

They have removed two parts of the Salah, and one of them is wajib, the other is mustahab.

But that is regarding formations prayers, you can pray with Sunnis, but do it beside them, alone!

what is the ya akhi? fear Allah.
sunni prayer is not invalid because they "dont pray like us". when did Allah azza wa jall grant you the authority to determine who's prayer is valid or not? they do all the wajibaat. takbeer, qiyam, ruku, sujud, jalsa, qaida, salam. and look at you saying their prayer is not valid. 
"they" have "removed" two parts of Azaan, not salah. the other is bidah is what it is, not mustahab. someone is forgetting their classical scholars here and going for the modern ones.

On 2/7/2018 at 5:59 PM, TheGreenWanderer said:

As-salaam Alaikum

I want to begin praying Salat according to Shia

Unfortunately in my area there's only a Sunni Masjid and I haven't met any Shia here locally. The Muslim community here is very minor.

If I pray Shia salat with them, obviously due to the differences I'm going to fall out of the salat formation with them and also they may start questioning me.

Is it better I don't attend at all and just pray at home?

brother, you can pray with them. i can prove the entire shia salah from sunni ahadith, apart from the 3 takbeers in the end. if someone bothers you, let me know and i will provide the references to them for what THEY do not know.

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I don't think Sunnis will do that. Go on, and Pray with them :grin:.

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3 hours ago, just a muslim said:

what is the ya akhi? fear Allah.
sunni prayer is not invalid because they "dont pray like us". when did Allah azza wa jall grant you the authority to determine who's prayer is valid or not? they do all the wajibaat. takbeer, qiyam, ruku, sujud, jalsa, qaida, salam. and look at you saying their prayer is not valid. 
"they" have "removed" two parts of Azaan, not salah. the other is bidah is what it is, not mustahab. someone is forgetting their classical scholars here and going for the modern ones.

brother, you can pray with them. i can prove the entire shia salah from sunni ahadith, apart from the 3 takbeers in the end. if someone bothers you, let me know and i will provide the references to them for what THEY do not know.

Where did the 3 takbirs come from? 

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People here commenting but not much backing from fatwas. According to our Fiqh, praying behind an Ithna Ashari is wajib for the validation of congregational prayers.

Therefore, you can pray behind them, but you have to recite the prayer on your own.

Arabic source:

https://www.sistani.org/arabic/book/14/3596/

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7 hours ago, AnotherShepherd said:

Where did the 3 takbirs come from? 

I have seen shias raise their hands like raful yadain at the end of the prayer thrice instead of saying salam. 

6 hours ago, Sumerian said:

@just a muslim there is a difference in the dhikr when it comes to tashahhud between Sunnis and Shi'a. And their tashahhud is invalid to us.

Yes i know. I meant to say physcial action wise. So it wouldnt appear awkward and he may do taqiyya and say he is sunni if he wishes and fears damage. Inwards, he can pray as he wishes. Heck, i being a sunni also recite everything behind the imam. 

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29 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

I have seen shias raise their hands like raful yadain at the end of the prayer thrice instead of saying salam. 

We don't do it "instead" of salam. Salam is wajib, and that's how we end our Salat. Three takbirs are mustahab and they come after the salam, so after your prayer has ended. 

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42 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

We don't do it "instead" of salam. Salam is wajib, and that's how we end our Salat. Three takbirs are mustahab and they come after the salam, so after your prayer has ended. 

oh my bad. so how do you do salam? turning head right and left or without any physical movement and just verbally?

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6 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

oh my bad. so how do you do salam? turning head right and left or without any physical movement and just verbally?

We do the taslim just by saying the dhikr but you can slightly tilt your head for mustahab purposes. It has its own rulings, but yeah, it's mustahab. Only dhikr is wajib.

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On 2/7/2018 at 2:59 PM, TheGreenWanderer said:

As-salaam Alaikum

I want to begin praying Salat according to Shia

Unfortunately in my area there's only a Sunni Masjid and I haven't met any Shia here locally. The Muslim community here is very minor.

If I pray Shia salat with them, obviously due to the differences I'm going to fall out of the salat formation with them and also they may start questioning me.

Is it better I don't attend at all and just pray at home?

 

If they're not Salafist-Wahabist and they're normal Sunni Muslims I'd say go for it regular Sunnis are just as kind and gentle as us Shia Muslims and they're our brothers God bless.

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Just now, Forgottenthinker said:

they're normal Sunni Muslims I'd say go for it regular Sunnis are just as kind and gentle as us Shia Muslims and they're our brothers God bless.

JazaakAllah Brother !! Lots of Love :grin: Eat a Big Juicy Orange for ME :D

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1 minute ago, Shah Khan said:

Eat a Big Juicy Orange for ME 

lol 

1 minute ago, Shah Khan said:

JazaakAllah Brother !! Lots of Love :grin:

Thank you so much! I hate those that cause fitna, like Wahhabis that call themselves Sunni or garbage Sheikhs in London *cough* Habib*cough* that call themselves Shia 

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1 hour ago, AnotherShepherd said:

When, exactly, was the turbah tablet introduced? 

I'm not asking why. I'm asking when. 

It was used from beginning of Islam when prophet(pbu) annoyed his prophecy he was doing prayer beside Kabba with Khadijah (as) & Imam Ali (as) that there was no rug around Kabbah & in Sunni sources something as “khumra” described which consisted from leaf of palm & soil that prophet(pb) during prayer used it.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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2 hours ago, AnotherShepherd said:

When, exactly, was the turbah tablet introduced? 

I'm not asking why. I'm asking when. 

Therefore celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and be of those who prostrate themselves in adoration (Holy Qur'an 15:98)

 The Shi'ah Muslims prefer to prostrate on a small block of earth, called a Turbah, which is usually made from clay from the land of Karbala in Iraq.

 According to the Shi'ah Ja'fari fiqh - which is one of the five main schools of law in Islam - prostration must be performed on pure earth or what grows on it, provided that it is not eaten or worn. This includes dust, stone, sand and grass, provided that it is not a mineral. Prostration on paper is permitted, because it is made of a material which grows on earth, but not cloth or carpets.

 The legal scholars of all the Sunni schools of law concur regarding the validity of prostration on earth and that which grows on it.

 

 Did the Prophet (s) and his Companions ever do this?

Praying on the earth was certainly the practice of the Prophet (s) and those around him.

q       Narrated Abu Sa'id al-Khudri: I saw Allah's Apostle prostrating in mud and water and saw the mark of mud on his forehead.

[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 12, no. 798; vol. 3, book 33, no. 244]

q       Narrated Anas bin Malik: We used to pray with the Prophet in scorching heat, and if someone of us could not put his face on the earth (because of the heat) then he would spread his clothes and prostrate over them.

[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 2, book 22, no. 299]

According to this hadith only in exceptional circumstances would the Prophet (s) and his Companions prostrate on cloth.

The Prophet (s) also used to have a Khumra on which he would put his forehead for prostration.

q       Narrated Maymuna: Allah's Apostle used to pray on a Khumra.

[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 8, no. 378]

q       According to al-Shawkani, a famous Sunni scholar, more than ten Companions of the Prophet (s) have narrated traditions mentioning his prostration on a Khumrah.  And he lists all the Sunni sources recording these traditions which include Sahih Muslim, Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abu Dawud, Sunan al-Nasa'i and many others.

[Al-Shawkani, Nayl al-Awtar , Chapter of Prostration on the Khumrah, vol. 2, p. 128]

 

 So what is a khumrah?

q       a small mat sufficient just for the face and the hands while prostrating during prayers.

[Al-Bukhari, Sahih (English translation), vol. 1, book 8, no. 376 (as explained by the translator in paranthesis)]

Ibn al-'Athir, another famous Sunni scholar, in his Jami al-'Usul has written:

q       "Khumra is [like that] upon which the Shi'ah of our time perform their prostrations."

[Ibn al-'Athir, Jami' al-Usul, (Cairo, 1969), vol. 5, p. 467]

q       "Khumra is a small mat made from palm fibres or other material…. and it is like that which the Shi'ah use for prostration."

[Talkhis al-Sihah, p. 81]

 

But why the earth of Karbala?

The special characteristics of the soil of Karbala (Iraq) were known and it was an object of special attention during the time of the Prophet (s) as well as in later times:

q       Umm Salama says: I saw Husayn (a) sitting in the lap of his grandfather, the Prophet (s), who had a red block of soil in his hand. The Prophet (s) was kissing the dust and weeping. I asked him what that soil was. The Prophet (s) said: "Gabriel has informed me that my son, this Husayn, will be murdered in Iraq. He has brought this earth for me from that land. I am weeping for the suffering that will befall my Husayn." Then the Prophet (s) handed the dust to Umm Salama and said to her: "When you see this soil turn into blood, you will know that my Husayn has been slaughtered." Umm Salama kept the soil in a bottle and kept watch over it until she saw on the day of Ashura, 10th of Muharram 61 A.H., that it turned to blood. Then she knew that Husayn bin Ali (a) had been martyred.

[al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak, vol. 4, p. 398]

[al-Dhahabi, Siyar a`lam al-nubala', vol. 3, p. 194]

[Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, vol. 6, p. 230]

[al-Suyuti, Khasa'is al-kubra, vol. 2, p. 450; Jam` al-Jawami, vol. 1, p. 26]

[Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Tahdhib al-tahdhib , vol. 2, p. 346]

q       'Ali ibn Abi Talib, passed by Karbala after the battle of Siffin. He took a handful of its soil and exclaimed: 'Ah, ah, on this spot some men will be slain, and will enter Paradise without reckoning!'

[Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Tahdhib al-tahdhib , vol. 2, p. 348]

 

Why is it compulsory to prostrate on the clay from Karbala? It is not !

But the Shi'ah prefer to prostrate on the earth of Karbala because of the importance given to it by the Prophet (s) and the Imams from his Family (Ahl al-Bayt). After the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a), his son Imam Zayn al-'Abidin (a) picked some up, declared it to be sacred dust, and kept it in a bag. The Imams (a) used to perform prostrations on it and make a tasbih out of it, and recited Allah's praises on it.

[Ibn Shahrashub, al-Manaqib,  vol. 2, p. 251]

They also encouraged the Shi'ah to perform prostrations on them, with the understanding that it was not compulsory, but with a view to achieving greater recompense. The Imams (a) insisted that prostration before Allah must be on clean earth only and that it was preferable if it was performed on that earth of Karbala.

[al-Tusi, Misbah al-Mutahajjad,  p. 511]

[al-Saduq, Man la yahduruhu'l faqih,  vol. 1, p. 174]

The Shi'ah for a long time have kept this earth with them. Then, fearing that it might be desecrated, they kneaded it into small tablets or pieces, which are now called mohr or Turbah. During prayers we prostrate on it not as a compulsory act but in view of its special nature. Otherwise, when we have no pure soil with us, we prostrate on clean earth, or something that originates from it.

It is a pity that some people maliciously insist that the Shi'ah worship stones or that they worship Husayn (a). The truth is that we worship Allah alone by prostrating on the Turbah, not to it.  And we never worship Imam Husayn, Imam Ali, or the Prophet Muhammad (s). We worship only Allah, and it is in accordance with Allah's order that we perform prostration only on pure earth.

 

Conclusion

This is the reason why Shi'ah Muslims carry small tablets, usually made from the earth of Karbala, which enables them to do prostration on this highly recommended object and to follow the sunnah of the Prophet (s).

https://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/laws_practices/7.htm

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On 08/02/2018 at 9:11 PM, just a muslim said:

what is the ya akhi? fear Allah.
sunni prayer is not invalid because they "dont pray like us". when did Allah azza wa jall grant you the authority to determine who's prayer is valid or not? they do all the wajibaat. takbeer, qiyam, ruku, sujud, jalsa, qaida, salam. and look at you saying their prayer is not valid. 

I think there is a difference between valid salah and accepted salah. An accepted salah can be a valid or invalid salah. According to our fiqh the salah of the sunnis is invalid, but at the same time their invalid salah can still be accepted by Allah (awj) if it was sincere and done out of ignorance. I see many Shi'as make a lot of mistakes in their salah due to their ignorance, mistakes that even make their salah invalid (such as doing the Wudu wrong), but their salah can still be accepted by Allah if He sees their salah worthy of being accepted.

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23 hours ago, Sumerian said:

People here commenting but not much backing from fatwas. According to our Fiqh, praying behind an Ithna Ashari is wajib for the validation of congregational prayers.

Therefore, you can pray behind them, but you have to recite the prayer on your own.

Arabic source:

https://www.sistani.org/arabic/book/14/3596/

According to our fiqh, can some Shias pray behind Sunnis in congregation (jama'ah) even if non-taqiyyah? Or if the leader is a Sunni, is the congregational salah valid, does it have to be a shi'ite?

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