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Salam alaykum to my dear brothers and sisters

I have recently watched the video of Kamal al haydari talking about khums about how we Shi’a emphasis on khums when it doesn't even really exist in Islam (which I personally think it’s true). When I was younger I was told that I had to give khums when I start working and have money saved up and I had give 20 percent of it. I never really believed that because I knew Zakat was very important and you had give Zakat weather it was your money or things that you don’t use and they have really high value. Our Sunni brothers do Zakat and they give 2.5 percent from there savings to the poor and so on I saw the reasons why our Sunni brothers believe thay why they give 2.5 percent which do make sense to me. But since Kamal al haydari doesn’t support the khums idea do I just give the 2.5 percent every year from my savings?. Here’s the link to the video. it can also be translated in English too for the people that don’t understand Arabic.

Edited by Hameedeh
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Salam he doesn't mean that we must not pay Khums or follow Sunni Islam tradition his idea is that most of Shia muslims don't have qualification of Zakat but percent of Khums & way of consuming it can be changed by Wali (Imam (as) ) or a person like Marja that has authority from him.but the way of Sunni Muslims is distortion of true formula of  Khums & Zakat.

Khums the Islamic Tax System

Clarification of Khums

 

Way of Calculating the Khums

Khums (Nakhshawani)

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam he doesn't mean that we must not pay Khums or follow Sunni Islam tradition his idea is that most of Shia muslims don't have qualification of Zakat but percent of Khums & way of consuming it can be changed by Wali (Imam (as) ) or a person like Marja that has authority from him.but the way of Sunni Muslims is distortion of true formula of  Khums & Zakat.

Khums the Islamic Tax System

Clarification of Khums

 

Way of Calculating the Khums

Khums (Nakhshawani)

 

 

Another video where talks about khums and his opinions which I don’t really quite understand but he does mention that you the masoomeen a.s didn’t take khums from money but they took it from bootys of war did khums on that then further he explains about how to the imam hadi’s father a.s told the Shi’a to give half a diner for khums and so on the video explains stuff really well but my understanding of Arabic is not that good but I do understand some of it.

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He says Khums comes from 5 sources 

1.warbooty 2.mines 3.diving 4.treasurs

5.tradition

4 ones is controlled by gov so don't have Khums now 

No1 was available during time of prophet (pbu)& Imam Ali (as) that mentioned in Quran  but after them during umayyad & Abbasid Shia muslims don't have right to receive that 

So Imams (as) shifted it to tradition by their authority of Wilayah for supporting poor Shias that still valid & can be received by Imam (as) or narrators of Hadith that have authority from Imam (as) in their absence & he also takes this type of khums from his followers to consume it for poor Shias. 

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Alhumdulillah. May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى bless Kamaal Haidary for this call out. Unfortunately, the matter of zakat has evolved into sectarian. The Quran screams about salah and zakat, yet our ulema claim zakat does not apply to the modern day. It is a scary issue that is taken lightly.

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There is also a video of Sayed Kamel Haydari saying why is 50% of Khums going to Sayeds and then goes on to say ya Jahil, O 1000 times Jahil, how is it fair 20 million people get 50% and 200 million get 50%. It was really interesting, what's your opinion on that and is there any reason that Sayed get khums to that extent?

Click here for the Sayed Kamal video I talked about

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What is the reason behind the necessity of paying Khums and where is it spent? Why don't the Sunnis pay it? 
question
Why should half of Khums be given to sayyids, and is Khums something that has been crafted and introduced by Shiites? As far as I know, there is only one verse in the Quran regarding Khums. I wonder why the Sunnis who claim to be the followers of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) do not recognize Khums. I believe paying Khums can be very helpful in adjusting wealth and reducing class gap
 

18]

Shia policyEdit

Khums, in the Shia tradition, is applied to the business profit, or surplus, of a business income. It is payable at the beginning of the financial year, though this is regarded as being the time at which the amount becomes clear. Ghanima and one-fifth tax of khums applies wherever gain or profit is involved. "Ghanima" has two meanings as mentioned above; the second meaning is illustrated by the common use of the Islamic banking term "al-ghunm bil-ghurm" meaning "gains accompany liability for loss or risk"[19][20]

In 13th century Shia region, the khums was divided into two portions. One portion went to the descendants of Muhammad, the other portion was divided equally and one part given to Imam and clergy, while the other part went to the orphaned and poor Muslims.[5] Khums became a major source of income and financial independence of the clergy in Shia regions. This practice has continued among Shia Muslims.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khums

 

In Hadiths

There are about 110 hadiths regarding the cases of obligation and use of khums in Wasa'il al-Shi'a and Mustadrak al-wasa'il. Paying khums brings about many benefits, some of which have been referred to in hadiths such as:

  • It results in pure offspring and generation for the person paying it.[2]
  • It builds up one's piety and faith in religion.[3]
  • It brings assistance to Imams (a).[4]
  • It purifies one's income and properties.[5]
  • It shields one's reputation against enemies' menace.[6]
  • It eliminates poverty among Imams' offspring.[7]
  • It is an atonement for sins, and good deed in the Judgment Day.[8]
  • It guarantees one the paradise.[9]
  • It brings about Imams' supplication for one.[10]
  • It is a key element that attracts sustenance.[11]

 

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Khums

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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29 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:
What is the reason behind the necessity of paying Khums and where is it spent? Why don't the Sunnis pay it? 
question
Why should half of Khums be given to sayyids, and is Khums something that has been crafted and introduced by Shiites? As far as I know, there is only one verse in the Quran regarding Khums. I wonder why the Sunnis who claim to be the followers of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) do not recognize Khums. I believe paying Khums can be very helpful in adjusting wealth and reducing class gap
 

18]

Shia policyEdit

Khums, in the Shia tradition, is applied to the business profit, or surplus, of a business income. It is payable at the beginning of the financial year, though this is regarded as being the time at which the amount becomes clear. Ghanima and one-fifth tax of khums applies wherever gain or profit is involved. "Ghanima" has two meanings as mentioned above; the second meaning is illustrated by the common use of the Islamic banking term "al-ghunm bil-ghurm" meaning "gains accompany liability for loss or risk"[19][20]

In 13th century Shia region, the khums was divided into two portions. One portion went to the descendants of Muhammad, the other portion was divided equally and one part given to Imam and clergy, while the other part went to the orphaned and poor Muslims.[5] Khums became a major source of income and financial independence of the clergy in Shia regions. This practice has continued among Shia Muslims.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khums

 

In Hadiths

There are about 110 hadiths regarding the cases of obligation and use of khums in Wasa'il al-Shi'a and Mustadrak al-wasa'il. Paying khums brings about many benefits, some of which have been referred to in hadiths such as:

  • It results in pure offspring and generation for the person paying it.[2]
  • It builds up one's piety and faith in religion.[3]
  • It brings assistance to Imams (a).[4]
  • It purifies one's income and properties.[5]
  • It shields one's reputation against enemies' menace.[6]
  • It eliminates poverty among Imams' offspring.[7]
  • It is an atonement for sins, and good deed in the Judgment Day.[8]
  • It guarantees one the paradise.[9]
  • It brings about Imams' supplication for one.[10]
  • It is a key element that attracts sustenance.[11]

 

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Khums

What I don’t believe is I shouldn’t give whatever profit I make becuause then there’s no point in making profit as for surplus every business needs that income to pay there workers or have it for worst case scenario which have actually happened  and I’ve witnessed some these happen. What I do believe is every year we should do Zakat Qur’an is also ordering us to do Zakat and if we don’t do it it’s a major sin and it does tell us to give gold or silver to the orphans,poor and the needy. I know that now a days we don’t use gold or silver as money anymore like in the prophets Muhammad’s SAWAWS time or the Masoomeen a.s. But wat sunnies do is Pay 2.5 percent from there savings every year for example if you have managed to save 10k at the end of the year your Zakat is $250. Or if someone has gold they measure the gold and the silver and see it’s value and pay the value of the gold or silver for Zakat. Our Sunni brothers also have that ruling of paying Zakat for your business goods or the stuff that you sell which don’t make sense at all because they are not part of your savings. 

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This is the reason why Kamal al haydari is attacked (not physically), by some of the major big Shia scholars in Iraq who lives on khums, their income is depended on it.

Kamal al haydari did not respond to these verbal attacks from other scholars who says he doesn't know what he is talking about, he proved a point and moved on.

His accomplishment on demolishing these faulty hadiths is righteous, but some deem otherwise, and prefer to throw verbal punches but fails to produce an even argument.

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1 minute ago, Scorpionish said:

This is the reason why Kamal al haydari is attacked (not physically), by some of the major big Shia scholars in Iraq who lives on khums, their income is depended on it.

Kamal al haydari did not respond to these verbal attacks from other scholars who says he doesn't know what he is talking about, he proved a point and moved on.

His accomplishment on demolishing these faulty hadiths is righteous, but some deem otherwise, and prefer to throw verbal punches but fails to produce an even argument.

Yes that is true. I personally follow Kamal al haydari now I’m wondering is that since he proved that khums has only being mentioned in the Quran once and also in a  another video ( I also posted in this thread) how he was talking about the 5 things that are in khums how they don’t apply to us but I’m not sure about the last one i didn’t quite get it because my Arabic is not good but I assume it also doesnt apply (but I could be wrong) . Zakat has been mentioned a lot of times as much as salat or close and how it is wajib. Now what don’t is do I need to do khums even though I don’t really believe in it and I believe it’s n Zakat or do I just have to do Zakat ? 

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Khums is mentioned in the Quran so it is wrong to say or assume that Khums is not Islamic. 

Once it is proven to exist in the Quran, it is up to the marajae to determine the regulations around it. If Kamal Haydri is against it, by all means dont pay it. But if my marja says pay it, nothing wrong with paying it.

Overall, the khums money is put to very good use so there is no harm in paying it. 

As far as the Syed thing goes, Syeds get khums, non-Syeds get zakat including fitra so it is a wash basically.

Also, you should never look at it as having to pay 20% - makes it seem burdensome. You should be thankful to Allah for the 80%. Example, if you managed to save $1,000. Don't complain about having to pay $200. Be thankful to Allah for giving you enough to save $800. Thereafter, you goal in life should be to pay more khums every year than the previous year - even better would be to pay more khums than all previous years combined. It means your wealth is increasing exponentially.

I hope and pray every day that I pay khums.

Edited by shiaman14

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8 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Khums is mentioned in the Quran so it is wrong to say or assume that Khums is not Islamic. 

Once it is proven to exist in the Quran, it is up to the marajae to determine the regulations around it. If Kamal Haydri is against it, by all means dont pay it. But if my marja says pay it, nothing wrong with paying it.

Overall, the khums money is put to very good use so there is no harm in paying it. 

As far as the Syed thing goes, Syeds get khums, non-Syeds get zakat including fitra so it is a was basically.

Sorry what I meant by khums doesn’t really exist as In the one where you have to pay 20 percent from your savings(I should’ve been a lot more specific sorry). I know that khums was mentioned only once it referred to the booty wars where they would and gain stuff from the war they won and share it  ammongst the Muslims. Btw have you watched the video I’ve posted above other then the first one where Kamal al haydari talks about khums and his opinions ? 

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1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Sorry what I meant by khums doesn’t really exist as In the one where you have to pay 20 percent from your savings(I should’ve been a lot more specific sorry). I know that khums was mentioned only once it referred to the booty wars where they would and gain stuff from the war they won and share it  ammongst the Muslims.

Some could argue that working and supporting one's family is jihad so khums of 20% could be considered war-booty. Hehehe

1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Btw have you watched the video I’ve posted above other then the first one where Kamal al haydari talks about khums and his opinions ? 

Don't care much for Kamal Haydri so don't need to watch his video.

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Some could argue that working and supporting one's family is jihad so khums of 20% could be considered war-booty. Hehehe

Don't care much for Kamal Haydri so don't need to watch his video.

Look at it and translate it I my self I’m not really good at understanding Arabic but i understood most of it and look at his proof and opinions and tell me your opinions or what is Kamal al haydari saying.

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Kamal al haydari didn't say khums don't exist in islam, the khums that is being practiced is not part of the Islamic Khums, which is of 4 categories/types.

 
Zakat is more important in the Quran al Karim. it has 100 ayat or more, but yet khums somehow gained more importance and interest over zakat in shia, why? Well he explains it in the video.
 
At the time or after Imam al Sadiq (as), this "khums" that has not part of islam khums, started to take place.
 
Am thankful to God for bringing us Kamal al haydari, may God protect him.

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11 hours ago, Ali Salhab said:

There is also a video of Sayed Kamel Haydari saying why is 50% of Khums going to Sayeds and then goes on to say ya Jahil, O 1000 times Jahil, how is it fair 20 million people get 50% and 200 million get 50%. It was really interesting, what's your opinion on that and is there any reason that Sayed get khums to that extent?

Click here for the Sayed Kamal video I talked about

I watched the video I understood some of it. I do agree that people that do khums most of it is not going to the poor and it’s going to they sayyeds even if they are not in need. That’s why I don’t really believe in doing khums yearly from your savings and stuff and the Quran only mentions the khums one and it mentions Zakat more then twenty times I think I can’t really remember and the Quran emphasis a lot on Zakat and it’s part of the five pillars of Islam when khums is not part of the five pillars of Islam and Zakat is also payable back in the prophet time they used to pay with gold and silver now a days out sunni brothers look at the value of gold pay its value for Zakat which 2.5 percent but I’m not sure about the kg I think it’s 24k I’m not really quite sure. 

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39 minutes ago, Scorpionish said:

Kamal al haydari didn't say khums don't exist in islam, the khums that is being practiced is not part of the Islamic Khums, which is of 4 categories/types.

 
Zakat is more important in the Quran al Karim. it has 100 ayat or more, but yet khums somehow gained more importance and interest over zakat in shia, why? Well he explains it in the video.
 
At the time or after Imam al Sadiq (as), this "khums" that has not part of islam khums, started to take place.
 
Am thankful to God for bringing us Kamal al haydari, may God protect him.

So which part of khums applys for us today then ?? 

Edited by Anonymous2144
Mistake

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Here is the logic of the modern ulema:

Zakat was at the time paid with gold/silver coins, wheat, barley, etc--therefore paper money does not qualify for zakat.

Khums was at the time paid (or distributed) with swords, shields, etc--therefore paper money qualifies for khums.

You have to be ignorant to not see the flaw.

Edited by 786:)

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9 hours ago, Scorpionish said:

Zakat is more important in the Quran al Karim. it has 100 ayat or more, but yet khums somehow gained more importance and interest over zakat in shia, why? Well he explains it in the video.

9 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

I watched the video I understood some of it. I do agree that people that do khums most of it is not going to the poor and it’s going to they sayyeds even if they are not in need. That’s why I don’t really believe in doing khums yearly from your savings and stuff and the Quran only mentions the khums one and it mentions Zakat more then twenty times I think I can’t really remember and the Quran emphasis a lot on Zakat

if the number of times something is mentioned in the Quran is the criteria then you must believe that Prophet Isa (as) is more important than Prophet Muhammad (saw) since he is mentioned more times in the Quran than Prophet Muhammad (saw).

Or for every qada fast, we must offer 60 but for every qada salah, we only offer 1 - so fasting is more important than salah?

9 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

it’s part of the five pillars of Islam when khums is not part of the five pillars of Islam

you may be letting the cat out of the bag here about who you are because the 5 Pillars of Islam is a Sunni thing. We have usul-e-deen (5) and furuh-e-deen (10).

I have a sneaky suspicion that the people who are complaining about khums, dont pay zakat either. For the amount of good that khums does, we should all pay it - obligatory or not.

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The ulema are holding onto a bunch of straws to defend the current implementation of khums. I see more and more Shias raise an eyebrow about it as they look further into its inception. It does not require a rocket scientist to figure out there has been tampering with the scope of khums. If it is such a wajib principle of Islam, then why does the Quran only mention in it once (in a chapter named Spoils of War)? Why does Imam Ali not mention khums in NJB?

There are more arrows pointing towards it being a concoction of the economic needs well after the Holy Prophet (saw) than not.

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9 minutes ago, 786:) said:

The ulema are holding onto a bunch of straws to defend the current implementation of khums. I see more and more Shias raise an eyebrow about it as they look further into its inception. It does not require a rocket scientist to figure out there has been tampering with the scope of khums. If it is such a wajib principle of Islam, then why does the Quran only mention in it once (in a chapter named Spoils of War)? Why does Imam Ali not mention khums in NJB?

There are more arrows pointing towards it being a concoction of the economic needs well after the Holy Prophet (saw) than not.

 

37 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

if the number of times something is mentioned in the Quran is the criteria then you must believe that Prophet Isa (as) is more important than Prophet Muhammad (saw) since he is mentioned more times in the Quran than Prophet Muhammad (saw).

Or for every qada fast, we must offer 60 but for every qada salah, we only offer 1 - so fasting is more important than salah?

 

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