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Salaam Aleikum,

What is the difference between Qiyas (Analogical reasoning) and Aql?

In Shi'a Islam, Analogical reasoning is haram, even when you can derive some right answer from it. Like in the case of intoxication, but it will become very problematic in other cases. For example some Salafis use same method to derive conclusion from Qur'an that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى will be seen in Hereafter.

[6/59] الكافي: محمد بن إسماعيل، عن الفضل بن شاذان، عن صفوان بن يحيى، عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج، عن أبان بن تغلب عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: إن السنة لا تقاس ألا ترى أن امرأة تقضي صومها ولا تقضي صلاتها يا أبان! إن السنة إذا قيست محق الدين

[6/59] al-Kafi: Muhammad b. Ismail from al-Fadhl b. Shadhan from Safwan b. Yahya from Abd al-Rahman b. al-Hajjaj from Aban b. Taghlib from Abi Abdillah عليه السلام who said: the Sunna cannot be derived by analogy, do you not see that a woman repays her fasts but does not repay her prayers, O Aban! If the Sunna is analogized then the religion is destroyed.

[7/60] التوحيد والعيون والأمالي: ابن المتوكل، عن علي، عن أبيه، عن الريان بن الصلت، عن علي بن موسى الرضا، عن آبائه، عن أمير المؤمنين عليهم السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله قال الله جل جلاله: ما آمن بي من فسر برأيه كلامي، وما عرفني من شبهني بخلقي وما على ديني من استعمل القياس في ديني

[7/60] al-Tawhid and al-Uyun and al-Amali: Ibn al-Mutawakkil from Ali from his father from al-Rayyan b. al-Salt from Ali b. Musa al-Ridha from his forefathers from the commander of the faithful عليهم السلام who said: the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه واله said: Allah Majestic is His Majesty said: he has not believed in Me the one who interprets My words based on his opinion, and he has not known Me the one who compares Me to My creation, and he is not upon My religion the one who uses analogical reasoning in it.

But what exactly is deriving the answer trough Aql, what is the process for it?

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8 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

But what exactly is deriving the answer trough Aql, what is the process for it?

The position of jurisprudential analogy in the inference:

 

Shi'ism strongly opposed this approach from the beginning with the followings of the Imams (AS). One of the main reasons for the opposition of the Shiite Imams to the jurisprudential analogy is that the attainment of the philosophy of decreeping is not the work of the jurisprudents. Therefore, the common element expressed in the allegory can not be found in jurisprudential rulings, so any sentence used by the jurisprudential analogy Can be flawed. Some narratives refer to the debates of Imam Sadiq (a) with Abu Hanifa about its analogy and value, which is briefly mentioned.

 

Imam Sadiq (as) told Abu Hanifaah: "Which of these is bigger with God than fasting or prayer?Answered prayers. Then he said: Why then, when the woman has Menstruating does not receive qada for  fasting, while she do qada for prayer? (If you want to compare, you must say that prayer is more important than fasting).He said: is the urine dirty or semen? Abu Hanifa answered urine. He said: "According to your verses, you have to do Ghusl for urinate, not for semen, although Allah has given Ghusl for semen, not urine." Then he said the reason for the sentence: because semen is voluntary and it is exhausted from the whole body and every few days, but urine is necessary and every day it is several times. " [3]

http://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa12054

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12 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

What is the difference between Qiyas (Analogical reasoning) and Aql?

Salamun Alaikum Brother,

:) I just want to understand, what is Aql? and what are its types?
I have heard a hadith which mentions "Nabi" as "Aql" (Awwalo ma khalaqallahul aql).
Why we say our aql as "Nabi-e-Batin" &  Nabi as "Aql-e-fil-kharij"? 

 

12 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

But what exactly is deriving the answer trough Aql, what is the process for it?

:) We take the help and assistance from "Aql-e-fil-kharij". Obeying him in letter & spirit is the duty of our aql. Leaving the "aql-e-fil-kharij" gives birth to Qayas.

 

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Salam, 

A couple of points: 

1) It's not clear what "Aql" really is. It's not a simple thinking or reasoning. 

2) Analogical arguments are like the following: 

i) A is like B

ii) B does/has X

-----------------------

Therefore, A has X. 

 

Both premises in this argument can be questioned. 

For example, are we certain that A is like B? How closely are they related? Are they similar or identical? Based on our eternally limited knowledge (relative to God's knowledge or reality as it really is), we can never be certain whether A is truly like B. 

The second premise is questionable, too. For example, are we certain that B does/has X? Do we all we need to know about B and X, and A for that matter? What if we only think B does/has X due to our limited knowledge? 

Due the presence of strong conjectures in analogical arguments, when it comes to religious matter, it is crucial not to employ them, since we may be very wrong, regardless of how certain we may feel at any given time. 

 

3) Even with regards to alcohol and its effects, we do not use analogy. The reason that people forbid all intoxicants is because there's an acceptable hadith that links the prohibition of alcohol to its effect, and direcly states anything with similar effects if forbidden. However, one, rarely discussed, issue is that not all intoxicants produce similar effects as alcohol produces. For example, psychdelic drugs, such as DMT, or other drugs such as MDMA, do not in any way produce an effect near that of alcohol. 

 

 

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Usuli scholars mostly accept qiyas mansus al-`illa, and argue that it is different than the qiyas mentioned in hadiths.

Qiyas Mansus al-`Illa is when the reason for a fiqh ruling is known and established by the ma`sumeen, and so we use that reasoning to make analogies to other issues that do not have a hadith but share the same reasoning. For example, our hadiths say that chess was haram because it was a gambling game, and so we can take that reasoning and apply it to gambling games that are not mentioned in the hadith literature. However, qiyas when reasoning is not specified directly in the Quran or Sunna is prohibited and invalid.

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1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

Usuli scholars mostly accept qiyas mansus al-`illa, and argue that it is different than the qiyas mentioned in hadiths.

Qiyas Mansus al-`Illa is when the reason for a fiqh ruling is known and established by the ma`sumeen, and so we use that reasoning to make analogies to other issues that do not have a hadith but share the same reasoning. For example, our hadiths say that chess was haram because it was a gambling game, and so we can take that reasoning and apply it to gambling games that are not mentioned in the hadith literature. However, qiyas when reasoning is not specified directly in the Quran or Sunna is prohibited and invalid.

Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

However, qiyas when reasoning is not specified directly in the (1) Quran or (2) Sunna is prohibited and invalid.

One may ask what relation does Quran and the Sunna has with our aql? 
 

إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ
12:2 

اعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ يُحْيِي الْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا قَدْ بَيَّنَّا لَكُمُ الْآيَاتِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ
57:17

 

كَيْفَ يَهْدِي اللّهُ قَوْمًا كَفَرُواْ بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ وَشَهِدُواْ أَنَّ الرَّسُولَ حَقٌّ وَجَاءهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَاللّهُ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ
3:86

قُلْ قَدْ جَاءكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِّن قَبْلِي بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ
3:183

Is this "Al-Aql-e-Fil-Kharij", source of guidance for our aql? 

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Isn't there a hadith from Imam Ali (as) along the lines of, "if we used our aql instead of Allah's Will, we would wipe the sole of our feet instead of our faces or the top of our feet" - something to this effect.

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3 hours ago, Qa'im said:

Usuli scholars mostly accept qiyas mansus al-`illa, and argue that it is different than the qiyas mentioned in hadiths.

Qiyas Mansus al-`Illa is when the reason for a fiqh ruling is known and established by the ma`sumeen, and so we use that reasoning to make analogies to other issues that do not have a hadith but share the same reasoning. For example, our hadiths say that chess was haram because it was a gambling game, and so we can take that reasoning and apply it to gambling games that are not mentioned in the hadith literature. However, qiyas when reasoning is not specified directly in the Quran or Sunna is prohibited and invalid.

For laypersons, sometimes we are in situation that we need to decide what we observe is either halal or haram, but to come to right decision and we only have limited knowledge, can we use reasoning that is derived from Imams different narrations and Qur'an? And if yes, then what happens when we make wrong decisions? Should we just ignore and go look what Scholars say about the situation.

Also, sometimes when reading Qur'an and Hadith while contemplate, then Aql could derive a thought that sound very logical, should we just ignore it, because it could be right or wrong?

Also what does following hadith exactly mean? Things that are referred and the answer can't be found in Qur'an or Sunnah? Or things that we don't have knowledge yet and their answer can be found in Qur'an and Sunnah, but we should not make any reasoning, because of lack of knowledge to make Judgement.

[5/58] الكافي: محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن الوشاء، عن مثنى الحناط، عن أبي بصير قال: قلت لابي عبدالله عليه السلام: ترد علينا أشياء ليس نعرفها في كتاب الله ولا سنة فننظر فيها؟ فقال: لا، أما إنك إن أصبت لم تؤجر، وإن أخطأت كذبت على الله عز وجل

[5/58] al-Kafi: Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from al-Washsha from Muthanna al-Hannat from Abi Basir who said: I said to Abi Abdillah عليه السلام: things are referred to us of which we have no knowledge in the Book of Allah nor the Sunna - should we exercise reason in them? He said: no, for even if you were to get it right you will not be rewarded for it, and if you were to err in it then you have lied upon Allah Mighty and Majestic.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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