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Going to Hajj - money to Saud Family ?

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1 hour ago, peopleofchadar said:

I am conflicted : How can I justify go to Hajj, where I know that money is going to Saud Family and Wahabisim, when I dont support either and am actually completely against it ?

Salam. If Hajj is wajib for you, then you need to make preparations and go there. If you have a reason for not going (economic, health issues, etc.) then consult your marja. 

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1 hour ago, peopleofchadar said:

I am conflicted : How can I justify go to Hajj, where I know that money is going to Saud Family and Wahabisim, when I dont support either and am actually completely against it ?

Imams went on hajj despite being ruled by the Ummayaads and then Abbasids.

no problem to go.

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11 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Imams went on hajj despite being ruled by the Ummayaads and then Abbasids.

no problem to go.

but they go by themselves & didn't pay any money or any type of supportive things to them.

Renting Camels to Harun

An important hadith about Safwan which indicates his faith and his obedience of the Imams (a) is the one in which he told the story of renting his camels to Harun al-'Abbasi.

Safwan had many camels and he made a living by renting them, and this was why he was known as "al-Jammal". One day he went to Imam al-Kazim (a). The Imam (a) told him: "everything about you is good except one thing!" He asked: "may I be thy ransom! What is it?" The Imam (a) said: "that you rent your camels to this man (that is, Harun, the Abbasid caliph)". Safwan said: "I do not do this out of avarice and foolishness. I rent my camels to him because he goes to hajj rituals. I do not serve and accompany him. Instead, I send my servant to him". The Imam (a) asked: "does he owe you anything?" Safwan replied: "yes". The Imam (a) asked: "do you want him to live as long as he can pay his debts to you?" Safwan replied: "yes". Then the Imam said (a): "if a person wants them to live, then he is one of them, and a person who is one of them (the enemies of God) will go to the Hell".

After the conversation with Imam al-Kazim (a), Safwan al-Jammal sold all of his camels. When Harun heard the news, he summoned Safwan and told him: "I am told that you have sold all of your camels. Why did you do so?" He replied: "because I am too old and senile, and my servants cannot manage to do this". Harun said: "no way! I know that you have sold your camels at the order of Musa b. Ja'far (a), and had you not been a long companion of mine, I would kill you".

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Safwan_b._Mihran

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

but they go by themselves & didn't pay any money or any type of supportive things to them.

Renting Camels to Harun

An important hadith about Safwan which indicates his faith and his obedience of the Imams (a) is the one in which he told the story of renting his camels to Harun al-'Abbasi.

Safwan had many camels and he made a living by renting them, and this was why he was known as "al-Jammal". One day he went to Imam al-Kazim (a). The Imam (a) told him: "everything about you is good except one thing!" He asked: "may I be thy ransom! What is it?" The Imam (a) said: "that you rent your camels to this man (that is, Harun, the Abbasid caliph)". Safwan said: "I do not do this out of avarice and foolishness. I rent my camels to him because he goes to hajj rituals. I do not serve and accompany him. Instead, I send my servant to him". The Imam (a) asked: "does he owe you anything?" Safwan replied: "yes". The Imam (a) asked: "do you want him to live as long as he can pay his debts to you?" Safwan replied: "yes". Then the Imam said (a): "if a person wants them to live, then he is one of them, and a person who is one of them (the enemies of God) will go to the Hell".

After the conversation with Imam al-Kazim (a), Safwan al-Jammal sold all of his camels. When Harun heard the news, he summoned Safwan and told him: "I am told that you have sold all of your camels. Why did you do so?" He replied: "because I am too old and senile, and my servants cannot manage to do this". Harun said: "no way! I know that you have sold your camels at the order of Musa b. Ja'far (a), and had you not been a long companion of mine, I would kill you".

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Safwan_b._Mihran

I don't get it, why would the person who wants them to live be an enemy of God/go to hell?

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1 hour ago, Hussaini624 said:

I don't get it, why would the person who wants them to live be an enemy of God/go to hell?

Salam when a person wants them to live means he is shia of them not Ahlulbayt (as) so if he die at this time he will be counted as one of them.

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6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

but they go by themselves & didn't pay any money or any type of supportive things to them.

Renting Camels to Harun

An important hadith about Safwan which indicates his faith and his obedience of the Imams (a) is the one in which he told the story of renting his camels to Harun al-'Abbasi.

Safwan had many camels and he made a living by renting them, and this was why he was known as "al-Jammal". One day he went to Imam al-Kazim (a). The Imam (a) told him: "everything about you is good except one thing!" He asked: "may I be thy ransom! What is it?" The Imam (a) said: "that you rent your camels to this man (that is, Harun, the Abbasid caliph)". Safwan said: "I do not do this out of avarice and foolishness. I rent my camels to him because he goes to hajj rituals. I do not serve and accompany him. Instead, I send my servant to him". The Imam (a) asked: "does he owe you anything?" Safwan replied: "yes". The Imam (a) asked: "do you want him to live as long as he can pay his debts to you?" Safwan replied: "yes". Then the Imam said (a): "if a person wants them to live, then he is one of them, and a person who is one of them (the enemies of God) will go to the Hell".

After the conversation with Imam al-Kazim (a), Safwan al-Jammal sold all of his camels. When Harun heard the news, he summoned Safwan and told him: "I am told that you have sold all of your camels. Why did you do so?" He replied: "because I am too old and senile, and my servants cannot manage to do this". Harun said: "no way! I know that you have sold your camels at the order of Musa b. Ja'far (a), and had you not been a long companion of mine, I would kill you".

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Safwan_b._Mihran

Great narration. However, the person who has asked this question is not praying for the longevity of Al-Saud but completing a wajib act.

It is naive to think that the Aimmah went to hajj with 0 cost. I am hoping we don't have to get into discussions about hajj expenditures.

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18 hours ago, peopleofchadar said:

I am conflicted : How can I justify go to Hajj, where I know that money is going to Saud Family and Wahabisim, when I dont support either and am actually completely against it ?

A valid question. Then they use this money to manipulate Islam, Provke anti-shia narrative, produce terrorism, kill all kind of muslims , promote Wahabism and finally destory image of Islam. 

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1 hour ago, Mishael said:

Well Hajj money does come in handy in Saudi hands other then Oil.

 

1 hour ago, SIAR14 said:

A valid question. Then they use this money to manipulate Islam, Provke anti-shia narrative, produce terrorism, kill all kind of muslims , promote Wahabism and finally destory image of Islam. 

 

51 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Saudis make lots of money from Hajj despite popular belief and this will probably be their main source of money after oil finishes they make a total of 18.6 billion from Hajj and Umrah yearly and will no doubt increase costs once their oil mountain fall down.

irrelevant, this is a mandatory act if one can afford to do it. There are no pre-qualifiers for it that the ruling authority has someone we cherish.

the fact that our marajae go to hajj and permit us to go is further proof.

Hajj conditions: http://www.sistani.org/english/book/47/2082/

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9 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

irrelevant, this is a mandatory act if one can afford to do it. There are no pre-qualifiers for it that the ruling authority has someone we cherish.

the fact that our marajae go to hajj and permit us to go is further proof.

Hajj conditions: http://www.sistani.org/english/book/47/2082/

The fact of its mandatory open the opportunity of business and earning money/materials.

History repeats in making religion as earning money/materials, then what did your ancestor play/act in this condition and what will you play/act in this condition ?

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42 minutes ago, myouvial said:

The fact of its mandatory open the opportunity of business and earning money/materials.

History repeats in making religion as earning money/materials, then what did your ancestor play/act in this condition and what will you play/act in this condition ?

Huh?

When was hajj free?

People back in those days rented camels and horses and believe it or not rented places to stay and would you believe bought food!!!

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23 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Huh?

When was hajj free?

People back in those days rented camels and horses and believe it or not rented places to stay and would you believe bought food!!!

I am referring to the authority/king who control the hajj, not me or you who can never control hajj.

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2 hours ago, myouvial said:

I am referring to the authority/king who control the hajj, not me or you who can never control hajj.

Yes bad people control Mecca and Medina. Has been the case throughout Islamic history. Allah's command and criteria do not include "good" people ruling Mecca and Medina.

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Salam i think if somebody has qualification of Hajj it is obligatory to him/her but if it is not obligatory must don't support the Saudi regime by going to Hajj although when he/she goes to obligatory Hajj don't spend money for other things than Pilgrimage such as Souvenirs.  

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Assuming you have the financial means, what will your answer be to the Lord سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى on the final day? Would you avoid prayers over a political dispute?

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7 hours ago, peopleofchadar said:

I know if I go to hajj, I wont be able get that  "my money is being used to fund killings of Muslims, shias, people around the world" , out of my mind

Ridiculous thoughts brother. 

Our Imams did it, our marajae do it. Surely they know better than us.

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33 minutes ago, justAnothermuslim said:

it was free during imams's (as) time. i don't know history that well but i think it was first imposed under the guise of visa fees. :grin:

Places to stay, transport, food, etc.

Believe it or not, people had to save money to afford hajj back then too.

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As long as human and even all creatures exist there must be some kind of exchanging entity (can be material, energy, or moral) using a common denominator (for example money, barter else ?). The problem is in the application of using/earning these common denominator, is it just or/and fair, proper, exact ?

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13 minutes ago, myouvial said:

As long as human and even all creatures exist there must be some kind of exchanging entity (can be material, energy, or moral) using a common denominator (for example money, barter else ?). The problem is in the application of using/earning these common denominator, is it just or/and fair, proper, exact ?

should be changed into :

can be mass concentration, pressure, temperature, or moral) using a common denominator (for example mass or materials, energy, money/barter, moral indebtness).

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On 2/6/2018 at 3:00 AM, peopleofchadar said:

I am conflicted : How can I justify go to Hajj, where I know that money is going to Saud Family and Wahabisim, when I dont support either and am actually completely against it ?

I have not watched it fully this video. But i watch he/Syeikh Imran Hossein talk about monetary system a few years ago.

Please give comment and judgement from Shi'ah of Ahlul Bayt a.s. about his discussion from Al Qur'an. I would like to hear the explanation from people educated from Qum or any other hawza/shi'a qur'anic education.

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1 hour ago, myouvial said:

I have not watched it fully this video. But i watch he/Syeikh Imran Hossein talk about monetary system a few years ago.

Please give comment and judgement from Shi'ah of Ahlul Bayt a.s. about his discussion from Al Qur'an. I would like to hear the explanation from people educated from Qum or any other hawza/shi'a qur'anic education.

I can not bear/withstand to post this :

At 26:00, he says the ummah of Muhammad SAW's intelllectual display the intellect of donkey.........................

So whoever use paper money/digital money is having the intellect of donkey...........

Ha, this includes me beside all other human. 

Animal (donkey) do not ever use money whatsoever probably is better than human nowadays...haaaaaa

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5 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Places to stay, transport, food, etc.

Believe it or not, people had to save money to afford hajj back then too.

salam bro

i believe you 100%. that's why i didn't comment on this point earlier. it's something to be expected when travelling, now or then.

to be blunt about it, the imams (as) need not pay anything to the umayyads or abbasids in order to perform hajj/umrah. :grin:

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  • Hajj pilgrimage entangled in web of Saudi Arabia politics
 
It’s just one of the many ways that Saudi Arabia uses its oversight of the hajj to bolster its standing in the Muslim world—and to spite its foes, from Iran and Syria to Qatar

Dubai: More than 1.7 million Muslims from around the world have arrived in Saudi Arabia for the start of the annual hajj pilgrimage this week. Once in Mecca—the site of Islam’s holiest place of worship—they will be reminded that the ruling Al Saud family is the only custodian of this place.

Large portraits of the king and the country’s founder hang in hotel lobbies across the city. A massive clock tower bearing the name of King Salman’s predecessor flashes fluorescent green lights at worshippers below. A large new wing of the Grand Mosque in Mecca is named after a former Saudi king, and one of the mosque’s entrances is named after another.

It’s just one of the many ways that Saudi Arabia uses its oversight of the hajj to bolster its standing in the Muslim world—and to spite its foes, from Iran and Syria to Qatar. Its arch rival, the Shiite power Iran, has in turn tried to utilize the hajj to undermine the kingdom.

The hajj has long been a part of Saudi Arabia’s politics.

 

Qatar’s government publicly welcomed the move to facilitate the pilgrimage, but also called on Saudi Arabia to “stay away from exploiting (the hajj) as a tool for political manipulation”.

Qatar’s human rights committee had previously filed a complaint with the UN special rapporteur on freedom of belief and religion over restrictions placed on its nationals who wanted to attend the hajj this year.

Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister Adel al-Jubeir said Qatar’s complaint amounted to a “declaration of war” against the kingdom’s management of the holy sites, and the kingdom accused Qatar of trying to politicize the hajj.

While the hajj is a main pillar of Islam, the custodianship of its holy sites is a pillar of the ruling Al Saud family’s legitimacy and power. Iran has consistently tried to call that into question.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/cpqaeCAscgtAx9TaGVAqHO/Hajj-pilgrimage-entangled-in-web-of-Saudi-Arabia-politics.html

 

McMecca: The Strange Alliance of Clerics and Businessmen in Saudi Arabia

Why are Wahhabi leaders allowing the destruction of historical sites in 

Construction cranes are seen as Muslims circle the Kaaba at the Grand Mosque in Mecca on January 6, 2013. (Amr Dalsh/Reuters)

The Saudi government is demolishing some of the oldest sections of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, according to a report by The Independent this week , which includes photos of the wreckage. The mosque is one of Islam's most important religious sites, to which all Muslims face while praying. The sections being destroyed date back to the Ottoman and Abbasid period and are the last remaining parts of the compound that are more than a few hundred years old. "One column which is believed to have been ripped down is supposed to mark the spot where Muslims believe Muhammad began his heavenly journey on a winged horse, which took him to Jerusalem and heaven in a single night," The Independent reports.

Though the Saudi government argues that the demolition is part of a plan to expand the Grand Mosque complex to accommodate the growing number of pilgrims to the site, it seems strange that the theocratic government, controlled by extremist Wahhabi clerics, would so wantonly destroy Islamic holy sites. It is a paradox I encountered when I visited Mecca a few years ago reporting a story for The New Republic about the growing commercialization of Islam's holiest city:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/03/mcmecca-the-strange-alliance-of-clerics-and-businessmen-in-saudi-arabia/274146/

Mecca Then and Now, 128 Years of Growth

n the late 1880s, the photographer Al Sayyid Abd al Ghaffar carried cumbersome equipment to the desert city of Mecca, capturing scenes of thousands of Muslim pilgrims camped in the surrounding hills and valleys during the Hajj. Today, more than 125 years later, more than two million Hajj pilgrims descended on Mecca, which has grown drastically to accommodate the annual gathering. Gathered here is a series of photographs from al Ghaffar taken sometime around 1887, compared with images from similar locations taken in 2015.

 

 

main_900.jpg?1443552300

Left: A photograph of the Kaaba (center of photo) in the city of Mecca, circa 1887. Right: A view from a similar location 128 years later shows the Grand Mosque and the Kaaba in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, on September 25, 2015. #

 

Selfies banned at Islam's two holiest sites in Saudi Arabia
Read more at https://www.thestar.com.my/news/regional/2017/11/25/selfies-banned-at-islams-two-holiest-sites-in-saudi-arabia/#38HD5fj2Ldz1Hyro.99

 

AKARTA: The Saudi Arabian government has banned pilgrims from taking photos and videos using any devices for any purpose at Islam's two holiest mosques.

According to reports, the ban imposed in Mecca's Masjid al-Haram, known as the Great Mosque of Mecca, and Medina's Masjid an-Nabawi, or 'The Prophet's Mosque,' was taken by the Saudi foreign ministry on Nov 12, Turkey's The Daily Sabah newspaper reported.

Indonesia's The Jakarta Post reported that the change was communicated by Saudi's Foreign Ministry through a diplomatic note sent to accredited representatives of foreign countries on Saudi Arabian soil, including Indonesia's embassy in Riyadh. The embassy received the letter on Nov 15.


Read more at https://www.thestar.com.my/news/regional/2017/11/25/selfies-banned-at-islams-two-holiest-sites-in-saudi-arabia/#38HD5fj2Ldz1Hyro.99

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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