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Is Istikhara mandatory before marriage

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Salam brothers and sisters, 

I have been with this Shia guy for the last 10 years, we used to talk on the phone and 2 years ago he brought my marriage proposal. His parents were hesitant at first but after a while they agreed through a lot of persuasion. They put a condition that once he has a job they will marry us. After 2 years the time of marriage finally came and only month before the marriage when everything was decided between his and my parents (date, mehr amount etc) he said that Istikhara is mandatory and without Istikhara he won’t be able to marry me. I have no problem with istakhara but after such a long time of being with me all these promises to me and my parents he says he will do Istikhara. I tried to contact his parents but they dont talk to me or even answer my calls as we live in different countries. He says that only a maulvi will do istakhara and you can’t do it. If instikhara says yes, he will marry me and if it says no he won’t marry me. I need your help. I feel like it is just an excuse because I never heard of the concept that Istikhara is mandatory. It is highly recommended but he is saying he will cancel the marriage only based on an Istikhara which he wants to do one month before marriage when everything has been decided and when he has promised me and my parents on this marriage. Please help me out because I can’t stop crying and I am really distressed.thank you 

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20 hours ago, M666 said:

He said to me that the maulana he spoke to said it is mandatory. He keeps sending me these to justify the fact that is it mandatory; 

[01/02, 12:18] .: [30/01, 22:46] .: al‑Imam 'Ali (‘as), said: "Seek the best from Allah and do not decide on your own (when you intend to do
anything). How many people have decided on their own in performing a task and their destruction was in
that. "2
[30/01, 22:46] .: al‑Imam al‑Sadiq 'said: "Whosoever enters into an action without asking Allah for what is the best and
then falls into a difficulty will not receive the reward (as one who had gone thru trials and tribulations).”3
[30/01, 22:47] .: al‑Imam al‑Sadiq (as) said: "Whosoever seeks the best from Allah in his affair, and acts upon one of
the options (either performs or does not perform an action) but has something enter into his heart
(unhappiness or doubt regarding to how he acted), has leveled an (unfounded) accusation against
Allah." 122
[30/01, 22:48] .: l‑Imam al‑Sadiq (as) was once asked: "Who is the worst creation in the eyes of Allah?" The Imam (as)
,replied, "The one who levels an accusation against Him (Allah). " The person retorted, "Is it possible for
a person to level an accusation against Allah?" The Imam (as) ,replied, "Yes. The one who asks Allah for
the best and it (the best) is given to him but in the way of something that he does not like, and he
becomes upset. Thus, this is the one who has leveled an accusation against Allah. ‘’ 223

as-salamu alaykum.

There are many types of istikhara in Islam, and the two main ones are 'Istikhara by Supplication' and 'Istikhara by the Quran/Tasbih/Papers'. Let me give you a brief explanation for both of them.

Quote

Istikhara by Supplication: The actual meaning of `Istikhara' is "asking what is best and proper from Allah, the Merciful" which in itself is a form of supplication. Reliance (upon Allah ), leaving all of one's affairs (to Allah ) and having a good or favorable opinion of Allah are the requirements before one performs any supplication. This means that in all of one's affairs, the person supplicates to Allah and sincerely, asks Him to make his path easy and to have a good outcome.

The Istikhara by supplication in all instances takes precedence. It has been recommended that before one performs even the smallest act, he start off by supplicating to Allah . In the ahadith, it has been emphasized that this type of Istikhara should be performed before every action, and is one of the reasons for the success of a person, since in reality, the Istikhara by supplication includes:

Praising and Glorying Allah coupled with modesty and humility towards Him; and asking one's needs and requests from the One who is completely needless. Having good thoughts about Allah and that He only prefers and accepts that which is good for His servants. However, the most important thing is that one will have peace of mind and a sound heart when performing any action.

 

Quote

The Istikhara by Qur’an: If after a person has performed the supplication for seeking the best, and after thinking and asking others for advice still does not have peace of mind, then one is permitted to refer to the Qur’an in order to remove the doubts and through this method, seek the best.

The Istikhara by Tasbih: If after one has supplicated to Allah and after exhausted his thinking and asking others for advice, one is still in a state of confusion, then this method is used. 

The Istikhara by Papers: This is the final type of Istikhara mentioned in this book that is performed by using six pieces of paper and as commonly known as Dhat al‑Riqa `. Even though this form of Istikhara is hardly known or practiced among the common people, it has a special place amongst a select group of `Ulama.

 

Notice the difference between Istikhara by Supplication and the others? The Istikhara by supplication can be performed for any act you are willing to do, without any conditions. While the other Istikhara methods, such as Istikhara by Qur'an (the method your fiance is doing) must be done only if you're in doubt and in a state of confusion, and only after asking other people for advice and doing your own investigation on the matter, you then perform the Istikhara by the Qur'an to remove that doubt. 

The first three hadiths you posted are talking about Istikhara by supplication, not by the Qur'an. The last hadith is a different topic, it talks about people that are unhappy with the results of an Istikhara, it has nothing to do with the istikhara being wajib.

 

On 01/02/2018 at 1:02 AM, M666 said:

I say I will do it myself and he says you can’t do istakhara only a maulana can do it because he is the purest person.

Look at what 'Allamah Murtadha Mutahhari said:

Quote

"...What kind of talk is this that the `Ulama (only) must perform the Istikhara! How many problems this misconception has brought up! An `Alim is sitting in his house, busy studying or writing, the telephone rings and the person on the other end asks: `Sir! I am sorry to bother you, I need an Istikhara...'

Regardless, I myself perform Istikhara (for others), and I am not opposed to it, but it is better that each person performs an Istikhara for himself. Some people have even said that it is not allowed for a person to perform an Istikhara for someone else and everyone must perform it for himself!"

 

On 01/02/2018 at 12:07 AM, M666 said:

He said he has asked a very well known maulvis and they all said it is mandatory and without it he can’t marry. 

If the scholars really told him that (which I highly doubt), they are juhala (ignorant). It is not mandatory. If it is, have him or the scholars show you a fatwa from any marja' that it is wajib. But they wont be able to, because no marja' says an istkhara is wajib for marriage, infact many scholars are against doing istikhara for marriage.

 

Just show your fiance these links here: https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01216/ https://www.al-islam.org/istikhara-seeking-the-best-from-Allah-muhammad-baqir-haideri/section-8-views-maraja-taqlid-and

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49 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Just for my own research purposes: Is he Indian or Pakistani ? And is he living in the subcontinent right now? 

He is Pakistani. He doesn't live in Pakistan but his parents and all his family still live there.

Edited by Hassan-
Grammar correction as requested by OP

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1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

as-salamu alaykum.

There are many types of istikhara in Islam, and the two main ones are 'Istikhara by Supplication' and 'Istikhara by the Quran/Tasbih/Papers'. Let me give you a brief explanation for both of them.

 

 

Notice the difference between Istikhara by Supplication and the others? The Istikhara by supplication can be performed for any act you are willing to do, without any conditions. While the other Istikhara methods, such as Istikhara by Qur'an (the method your fiance is doing) must be done only if you're in doubt and in a state of confusion, and only after asking other people for advice and doing your own investigation on the matter, you then perform the Istikhara by the Qur'an to remove that doubt. 

The first three hadiths you posted are talking about Istikhara by supplication, not by the Qur'an. The last hadith is a different topic, it talks about people that are unhappy with the results of an Istikhara, it has nothing to do with the istikhara being wajib.

 

Look at what 'Allamah Murtadha Mutahhari said:

 

If the scholars really told him that (which I highly doubt), they are juhala (ignorant). It is not mandatory. If it is, have him or the scholars show you a fatwa from any marja' that it is wajib. But they wont be able to, because no marja' says an istkhara is wajib for marriage, infact many scholars are against doing istikhara for marriage.

 

Just show your fiance these links here: https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01216/ https://www.al-islam.org/istikhara-seeking-the-best-from-Allah-muhammad-baqir-haideri/section-8-views-maraja-taqlid-and

Thank you so much for your wealth of knowledge. This is exactly what I was looking for. Someone to explain all this and you have done it perfectly. I am gonna tell him all this. Let's see what he has to say. I am sure he will deny it all. Today I spoke to his brother and he couldn't even back up any evidence for what he was saying. They are just really trying to get rid of me because his brother said my parents in their heart don't want this marriage and straight away went to the Quran istakhara. This is so wrong. And the way they are trying to mess my life up is disgusting. I was 18 when I started being with him. Then when I was 26 I said please hurry up and then his parents forcefully sent the marriage proposal. In that they didn't mention anything about istakhara. I have two younger siblings and therefore my parents planned everything accordingly and now all of the sudden when the marriage was gonna happen they do the Quran istakhara to get rid of me. The fact is that they led me on. If from the start the boy said look things would be difficult I would have left but he led me on. Then his parents led me on even further by bringing my proposal. Finally the time came and they straight went to Quran istakhara and said, it was very bad. It's all just crazy. Thank you for all this. All your help is really appreciated. Esp right now when I am in the saddest part of my life and in extreme amount of pain

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Okay guys, so today I spoke to him. I told him that istikhara is not mandatory and everything you all explained. He said to me that istikhara is not but I am Pakistani and you are Pakistani therefore you have to follow the culture. When I said istikhara is done in doubt he said no it's mandatory. But now he has changed his statement a little by saying the maulana who is very good and researched well in his life has said he has to do it, it's in his family and culture. He then said we are doing it because of your dad. Basically me and his dad had a little disagreement about mehr but then it got sorted out. Initially when the whole marriage thing was being discussed. He told his parents to invite my parents in person so they can do my proposal in person. He promised me that don't worry my parents have called your parents to our house only to decide marriage date. This happened 3 years ago.  So my parents went to Pakistan and went to his house expecting them to talk about proposal. They went there with a cake expecting things to start. His parents then said tell your daughter to go and that you guys marry her off to someone else. They disrespected my parents and misled them because they told him that they will discuss marriage. Instead they call my parents to their house just to say to tell me to awar and that they will explain to their son that not to marry me. They could have said this is person but they decide to insult them. I wanted to end the relationship there because that was out of order. He then took another year and finally the parents called after a lot hesitation to propose marriage. My parents agreed even though they felt disrespected but they did it for my sake happiness and happiness. Within that two years they didn't talk to me all. Never on eid or anything. Obviously my parents were looking at this and observing everything. My dad could see that I wasn't being treated right but he stayed quite for the sake of his daughter. Then few months ago the issue of mehr came and my dad and his dad had a little disagreement. But it then got resolved. He today said to me that he is doing istikhara because of my dad. And the way he has been when the mehr thing was happening that's why we went to straight from Quran and it said no. So now he is changing his statement. First he said I am doing istikhara because it is wajib then he said its culture. And now he is saying it's because of my dad and mehr thing. Also when my dad was talking to his dad on the phone he said lets get on with marriage and let's solve the mehr issue.. We are both doing it for our kids sake at the end of the day... We have no choice. Obviously my dad is not stupid. He can see and sense that his parents didn't treat me right. Also his brother on the phone yesterday mentioned to me that his parents don't want this marriage but are doing it for our sake. But now he is disregarding what his parents did or think and He using that one sentence my dad said today to justify this istikhara one month before marriage. Brothers and sisters. I have no one to talk to and discuss all this for advice. That's why I keep coming here for help. 

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On 1/31/2018 at 9:15 PM, M666 said:

Salam brothers and sisters, 

I have been with this Shia guy for the last 10 years, we used to talk on the phone and 2 years ago he brought my marriage proposal. His parents were hesitant at first but after a while they agreed through a lot of persuasion. They put a condition that once he has a job they will marry us. After 2 years the time of marriage finally came and only month before the marriage when everything was decided between his and my parents (date, mehr amount etc) he said that Istikhara is mandatory and without Istikhara he won’t be able to marry me. I have no problem with istakhara but after such a long time of being with me all these promises to me and my parents he says he will do Istikhara. I tried to contact his parents but they dont talk to me or even answer my calls as we live in different countries. He says that only a maulvi will do istakhara and you can’t do it. If instikhara says yes, he will marry me and if it says no he won’t marry me. I need your help. I feel like it is just an excuse because I never heard of the concept that Istikhara is mandatory. It is highly recommended but he is saying he will cancel the marriage only based on an Istikhara which he wants to do one month before marriage when everything has been decided and when he has promised me and my parents on this marriage. Please help me out because I can’t stop crying and I am really distressed.thank you 

 If decision can be made thru rational and logical thought, Istikhara is not necessary or even advisable(mustahab).  If you and him are both eligible Islamically to be married, both want to be married to each other, he has the means to give you the nafakha (basic support), then marriage is valid and recommended (mustahab) in itself so there is no need to do Istikhara. 

People do Istikhara in marriage for two reasons

1) They are 'on the fence' meaning their heart and their rational mind are wavering back and forth between marrying the person or not marrying them. So they use Istikhara to push them one way or another. Again, this is not recommended to do if you can make a decision thru rational means. 

2) He doesn't intend on marrying you, so he will use a bad Istikhara as an excuse. He may not lie about the outcome, but he will keep doing it, or have other people do it until it comes out bad. This is dishonest and wrong or the family doesn't want him to marry you so they will do Istikhara till it comes out bad then tell him the Istikhara was bad. 

Also when you say you were 'with him' for 10 years yet you were not married, I don't know what it means, but it sounds bad from an Islamic perspective. 

In Islam, according to all schools of fiqh, both Jaafari and others, a women and man who are not mahram are not supposed to have any sort of 'with him / her' type or relationship until after marriage. You might be seeing the reason for that now. Because you may be emotionally attached to him and yet the marriage has not happened. It is possible that it will not happen and then if it doesn't, then what ? You will probably suffer an extreme psychological and emotional trauma and this could have been avoided.

These back and forth, every family member gets involved, years and years of waiting. This is all 100% cultural, it has nothing to do with Islam and turns out bad most of the time. Getting two or three people to agree on something is not easy, but not impossible either. Getting 4, 5, 6, or 100 people to agree on something is impossible, most of the time. In Islam marriage is very simple, takes a short time, and involves only three people (or two), the potential husband, potential wife, and in some cases the wakil of the potential wife, the father or paternal grandfather. Noone else is relevant or has a say in the matter. Sorry to all the Pakistanis out there, but your post makes me so glad I didn't marry a Pakistani. Not because of her, but because of all the family nonsense I would have to go thru, for me this would have probably resulted in a bad situation for everyone involved. 

 

I wish you well. Salam. 

 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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take him to court for wasting your time based on superstition.

Life is short, why waste tears on humans?.

look ahead, what can you do to your life that will make it worth living until you die of old age wearing nappies in a nursing home?.

you are marrying into non intelligence family, why do you want poor genetics?.

 

 

 

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I would love to take him to court. But I wouldn't because Allahs court is the biggest court of justice and I know justice will be served. Thank you for your input in this. You guys have made me in a lot better place than I was before. End of the day I am only 28! Allah will give me his blessing! I am getting stronger with your support everyday. But I have my moments too when I break down.

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1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

 If decision can be made thru rational and logical thought, Istikhara is not necessary or even advisable(mustahab).  If you and him are both eligible Islamically to be married, both want to be married to each other, he has the means to give you the nafakha (basic support), then marriage is valid and recommended (mustahab) in itself so there is no need to do Istikhara. 

People do Istikhara in marriage for two reasons

1) They are 'on the fence' meaning their heart and their rational mind are wavering back and forth between marrying the person or not marrying them. So they use Istikhara to push them one way or another. Again, this is not recommended to do if you can make a decision thru rational means. 

2) He doesn't intend on marrying you, so he will use a bad Istikhara as an excuse. He may not lie about the outcome, but he will keep doing it, or have other people do it until it comes out bad. This is dishonest and wrong or the family doesn't want him to marry you so they will do Istikhara till it comes out bad then tell him the Istikhara was bad. 

Also when you say you were 'with him' for 10 years yet you were not married, I don't know what it means, but it sounds bad from an Islamic perspective. 

In Islam, according to all schools of fiqh, both Jaafari and others, a women and man who are not mahram are not supposed to have any sort of 'with him / her' type or relationship until after marriage. You might be seeing the reason for that now. Because you may be emotionally attached to him and yet the marriage has not happened. It is possible that it will not happen and then if it doesn't, then what ? You will probably suffer an extreme psychological and emotional trauma and this could have been avoided.

These back and forth, every family member gets involved, years and years of waiting. This is all 100% cultural, it has nothing to do with Islam and turns out bad most of the time. Getting two or three people to agree on something is not easy, but not impossible either. Getting 4, 5, 6, or 100 people to agree on something is impossible, most of the time. In Islam marriage is very simple, takes a short time, and involves only three people (or two), the potential husband, potential wife, and in some cases the wakil of the potential wife, the father or paternal grandfather. Noone else is relevant or has a say in the matter. Sorry to all the Pakistanis out there, but your post makes me so glad I didn't marry a Pakistani. Not because of her, but because of all the family nonsense I would have to go thru, for me this would have probably resulted in a bad situation for everyone involved. 

 

I wish you well. Salam. 

 

 

Thank you! I have explained that to him now. But he says that in his family and in this culture they have to do istikhara. I told him, is culture bigger or religion. He says that culture has merged with religion and that is wrong. He is basically trying to justify the wrong thing. He is out of facts now. He is using the Quran to give him a yes or no answer which I told him is wrong esp when he knows about me and there are no doubts in his head but because his parents and grandparents have done it. He says he will do it. He is saying he will go to another maulvi and discuss this because the one he has discussed this with is apparently all knowing. I told him that he is not God but there is no arguing with a fool. He said he will go to another one and ask again. He is forced by his parents in this situation who clearly don't want this marriage and have no problem promising marriage to my parents two years ago and breaking it by using istikhara as an excuse. 

 

I agree that I should have not been with him in a relationship with him and I was a fool for it. I don't deny it. I was only 18 and stupid. But we always had the intention to marry. His parents just made things difficult for us. They even said just remain friends and marry someone else. That is so disgusting. Our intentions have been pure but the whole relationship was not right. I agree and it is a mistake that is why I am suffering but I was gullible to because he said don't worry we will marry this year and then years flew by and before you know it, 10 years went. You are right. Culture is a bad thing and a marriage is simple but he is trying to please his parents too. He was to have both as in me and his parents too and he has no problem wasting my time to please his parents. And now when things are getting difficult with his parents and his parents are forcing him and causing problems he has no options and I feel like he wants to break the promise. 

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In Islam, 

There is no problem with culture UNTIL the culture contradicts Islam. Then there is a problem. 

Everyone has a culture because everyone was raised in a particular place, at a particular time and speaks a particular language. If your husband says 'We come from this culture', to mean that this culture is just a valid as Islam, then why did Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) forbid the Arabs from doing tawaf naked, gambling, drinking alcohol,  and marrying the women who were married to their father after their father passed away. These were all part of Arabic culture before Islam and very well documented. 

It is because they were not part of Islam and contradicted the religion. So they were forbidden. Not all the Arab customs and culture was contradictory to Islam, so those things were allowed. Hajj existed before Islam, it was continued in a modified form. The Muta' (temporary marriage) was part of Arab culture before Islam, it was allowed to continue and other forms of marriage were forbidden (such as the one mentioned above). I don't want to belabour this point,  but I hope you get it and can help him understand

I am a revert and was born and raised in the US. There are certain parts of American culture that I stopped doing once I became muslim (you can guess which parts). There are also others which are very good and I continued doing those. There are parts of Pakistani culture that contradict Islam, other parts are good. Although I don't know so much about Pakistani culture, I have heard about many aspects of it in my time on Shia Chat. This part about all family members have to agree on a marriage in order for it to take place is contradictory to the religion, I can tell you that. Any aspect of culture that puts up artificial barriers to halal marriage opens the doors to haram, as verified by the famous hadith 'When a door to halal is closed, 1000 doors to haram are opened'. Anything which opens the door to haram is haram itself. Adding conditions for a marriage to be valid (such as an Istikhara must be done and all family members must agree, etc) outside of the Islamic conditions puts up artificial barriers and opens the doors to haram. This supposed Sheik who says Istikhara is wajib and all those other people who put up these barriers will die someday and they will meet Allah(s.w.a) and Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and they will be held accountable for their words and their actions. If they realized that, they should be scared of that. If they are scared of that, they should not do it, whatever they call it. 

Salam. 

Islam didn't come to get rid of culture, it came to purify it. The problem is....

most people take what they want from religion and take what they want from culture, mix the two together, and call it Islam. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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3 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

In Islam, 

There is no problem with culture UNTIL the culture contradicts Islam. Then there is a problem. 

Everyone has a culture because everyone was raised in a particular place, at a particular time and speaks a particular language. If your husband says 'We come from this culture', to mean that this culture is just a valid as Islam, then why did Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) forbid the Arabs from doing tawaf naked, gambling, drinking alcohol,  and marrying the women who were married to their father after their father passed away. These were all part Arabic culture before Islam and very well documented. 

It is because they were not part of Islam and contradicted the religion. So they were forbidden. Not all the Arab customs and culture was contradictory to Islam, so those things were allowed. Hajj existed before Islam, it was continued in a modified form. The Muta' (temporary marriage) was part of Arab culture before Islam, it was allowed to continue and other forms of marriage were forbidden (such as the one mentioned above). I don't want to belabour this point,  but I hope you get it and can help him understand

I am a revert and was born and raised in the US. There are certain parts of American culture that I stopped doing once I became muslim (you can guess which parts). There are also others which are very good and I continued doing those. There are parts of Pakistani culture that contradict Islam. Although I don't know so much about Pakistani culture, I have heard about many aspects of it in my time on Shia Chat. This part about all family members have to agree on a marriage in order for it to take place is contradictory to the religion, I can tell you that. Any aspect of culture that puts up artificial barriers to halal marriage opens the doors to haram, as verified by the famous hadith 'When a door to halal is closed, 1000 doors to haram are opened'. Anything which opens the door to haram is haram itself. Adding conditions for a marriage to be valid (such as an Istikhara must be done and all family members must agree, etc) outside of the Islamic conditions puts up artificial barriers and opens the doors to haram. This supposed Sheik who says Istikhara is wajib and all those other people who put up these barriers will die someday and they will meet Allah(s.w.a) and Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and they will be held accountable for their words and their actions. If they realized that, they should be scared of that. If they are scared of that, they should not do it, whatever they call it. 

Salam. 

 

 

 

Most people take what they want from religion and take what they want from culture, mix the two together, and call it Islam. 

 

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me. I really appreciate it. I will explain all this to him but he is going to repeat it the same old things again, "I have asked the maulvi, he is very intelligent and has done a lot of research", "it is part of Islam to do istikhara" etc. Trust me he has run out of excuses but I don't blame him. His parents are adding a massive pressure on him. They made him do istikhara from Quran and apparently it said "no". The whole concept they are following is wrong. But to promise me marriage two years ago (his parents spoke to my parents) and then do all of this is very wrong. I have told him that Islam places a lot of importance of fulfilling promises but he doesn't care. He says "it's the will of Allah because the Quran said no, therefore, I will have to leave you". He keeps sayings "because I am Pakistani" "you are Pakistani too, why aren't you following it". The whole thing is just unislamic but his parents keep telling him it is Islamic and now he had to follow the "bad" istakhara which he has done literally weeks before the wedding date was decided. 

I feel this whole culture thing is an excuse too. Because I am Pakistani myself and we don't really do istikhara the way he is telling me. I do live in the UK though so I have generally very little interaction with the Pakistani community. His parents even said to my parents when they called them to Pakistan that why doesn't your daughter continue talking to my son but they marry someone else. They are so disgusting in their mentality. His brother told me today that his parents don't want this marriage so obviously they are gonna twist the whole istikhara thing to make it bad like you mentioned. 

I am so thankful for your contribution and other people contributing here everyday. I have very limited contact with people. And I felt so lonely and I was lost but your knowledge is really helping me go through this and making me stronger everyday. May Allah bless you all. Thank you so much

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I would also like to ask for your guidance in more thing. Basically his parents made a commitment with me about marriage. They called my dad formally and said we will get them married in two years. And now they don't want to honour their pledge only because the istikhara from Quran is "bad". What is the importance of commitment and promises in Islam esp in this case, where marriage is involved and they are trying to back out using istikhara. i have heard that when you have given your word to someone or made a decision you shouldn't do istikhara. If they really wanted to do it they should have done it at the time of marriage proposal two years ago. 

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In Islam, the marriage is concluded when the aqd, or marriage contract is done. This is sometimes called the Kitab. It is when the Sheik asks you 'Do you want to marry this person, are you being forced, etc...) then he writes your name down in his book. If this is done in an Islamic country (I think the UK does this also), you are issued a marriage certificate. In  the Sunni mathabs, four witnesses are required to witness the ceremony. In Jaafari fiqh(Shiism), witnesses are not required but there are almost always witnesses anyway (because this usually happens at the wedding ceremony in front of family). 

Before this point, you are not married. In Islam, you are either married, or not married. This period that you are in counts as not married.  Before the Kitab, you are not married. Obviously if someone promised you something, they should keep their promise, but your status is still unmarried, so before the Kitab happens and the certificate is issued, anyone can change their mind. That is the first stage. The final step for aqd (contract) happens when the marriage is consumated. After that, you are fully married and nothing short of a divorce would end the relationship. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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He is keeps saying that religious practices changes from place to place. He says in my house it is a religious practice that we all follow and it is in Islam too. He has nothing to prove his point. I feel like I am arguing with a fool. He is now saying he will go speak to another maulana and see what happens. I forgot to add one more thing in my previous posts. His parents called him to Pakistan within 2 days by saying that come here and sort out the things with your marriage as in the event, venue etc and then get married and then go. So he flew to Pakistan, and then all of a sudden they said do istikhara. It all just doesn't add up. 

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Okay guys, a little update on the whole situation. I presented him all the facts you have given me on istikhara and the fact that it is not mandatory today. I said what do you want now. He said i will still do another istikhara because that's what my parents want. His arguement that it is mandatory is not valid anymore so he is not using it. He is saying that we did one istikhara using the Quran, it said no so the marriage is cancelled but I will push for another istikhara even though I told him everything you all told me He told me to wait for that. I already know he is going to say it is bad because it is honestly now just an excuse to end the wedding that was planned this month. I don't know what I should do. Should I let him do that or just move on. Because it's clear that he isn't following Islam on this. And when he will be told why he did that to me, he will always have an excuse in his head that the istikhara from the Quran said no! He is living in falsehood. I honestly pray Allah serves justice one day. 

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5 hours ago, M666 said:

Okay guys, so today I spoke to him. I told him that istikhara is not mandatory and everything you all explained. He said to me that istikhara is not but I am Pakistani and you are Pakistani therefore you have to follow the culture. When I said istikhara is done in doubt he said no it's mandatory. But now he has changed his statement a little by saying the maulana who is very good and researched well in his life has said he has to do it, it's in his family and culture. He then said we are doing it because of your dad. Basically me and his dad had a little disagreement about mehr but then it got sorted out. Initially when the whole marriage thing was being discussed. He told his parents to invite my parents in person so they can do my proposal in person. He promised me that don't worry my parents have called your parents to our house only to decide marriage date. This happened 3 years ago.  So my parents went to Pakistan and went to his house expecting them to talk about proposal. They went there with a cake expecting things to start. His parents then said tell your daughter to go and that you guys marry her off to someone else. They disrespected my parents and misled them because they told him that they will discuss marriage. Instead they call my parents to their house just to say to tell me to awar and that they will explain to their son that not to marry me. They could have said this is person but they decide to insult them. I wanted to end the relationship there because that was out of order. He then took another year and finally the parents called after a lot hesitation to propose marriage. My parents agreed even though they felt disrespected but they did it for my sake happiness and happiness. Within that two years they didn't talk to me all. Never on eid or anything. Obviously my parents were looking at this and observing everything. My dad could see that I wasn't being treated right but he stayed quite for the sake of his daughter. Then few months ago the issue of mehr came and my dad and his dad had a little disagreement. But it then got resolved. He today said to me that he is doing istikhara because of my dad. And the way he has been when the mehr thing was happening that's why we went to straight from Quran and it said no. So now he is changing his statement. First he said I am doing istikhara because it is wajib then he said its culture. And now he is saying it's because of my dad and mehr thing. Also when my dad was talking to his dad on the phone he said lets get on with marriage and let's solve the mehr issue.. We are both doing it for our kids sake at the end of the day... We have no choice. Obviously my dad is not stupid. He can see and sense that his parents didn't treat me right. Also his brother on the phone yesterday mentioned to me that his parents don't want this marriage but are doing it for our sake. But now he is disregarding what his parents did or think and He using that one sentence my dad said today to justify this istikhara one month before marriage. Brothers and sisters. I have no one to talk to and discuss all this for advice. That's why I keep coming here for help. 

My goodness, now how many times have i heard culture wrecking peoples lives? 

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Thanks to your help, he is left speechless. He knows I have access to a knowledgable community providing me knowledge and guidance. He is so confused because you have totally silenced him. Thank you so much. I told him I am talking to a Shia community. He is now telling me that he has a statement from an ayyatollah that proves that istikhara is mandatory. I said okay show it to me. He said I will but on one condition that you won't talk about it with the community. Lol because he knows you will give me the right facts and guide me. He is such a liar. My heart is now off this marriage.. I am still sad how he manipulated me for 10 years because I would've  have had a husband by now and  would have been happily married because I had a lot of marriage proposals but I declined them all because of him. 

 

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25 minutes ago, M666 said:

Thanks to your help, he is left speechless. He knows I have access to a knowledgable community providing me knowledge and guidance. He is so confused because you have totally silenced him. Thank you so much. I told him I am talking to a Shia community. He is now telling me that he has a statement from an ayyatollah that proves that istikhara is mandatory. I said okay show it to me. He said I will but on one condition that you won't talk about it with the community. Lol because he knows you will give me the right facts and guide me. He is such a liar. My heart is now off this marriage.. I am still sad how he manipulated me for 10 years because I would've  have had a husband by now and  would have been happily married because I had a lot of marriage proposals but I declined them all because of him. 

 

That's total rubbish. This is typical from the Pakistan/Indian countries, rife with utter superstition and harsh on women like no other.  I can't make you decide anything and don't make a judgement just based of what i say, but honestly, if you were my real sister i would have told you to forget this guy.  You've been strung along, he isn't committing, he is jumping from one answer to another - with due respect and not to backbite but to give you advice.  When you marry someone, they are your rock. You need to feel like you can trust them, and vice versa and not be plunged into uncertainty. If Mummy-Jee - with all due respect- controls him during the marriage, and if this were even to go through, just ponder for a moment over just how many more decisions you won't even be able to make as a couple ? It happens so many times in these types. 10 years is a long time, and your scars will heal. The best thing you can do is recognise you've had proposals - a lot as you say. Clearly you're sought after , use that to find someone more compatible who will commit and not play games.  If he comes begging to you to forgive him and the like, just exercise your better judgement.

Do you know what happens when people don't actually want something? They make excuses, one after the other and hop from one position to another. As i said, if i were in your shoes i would forget about someone playing with my mind in this fashion and move on. Work on self-improvement in all areas, and come back stronger than ever before, and to such a level you begin to shock people and are then able to have a far greater array of options and someone who is actually decent for you. 

InshAllah it all works out. 

 

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6 hours ago, M666 said:

I would love to take him to court. But I wouldn't because Allahs court is the biggest court of justice and I know justice will be served. Thank you for your input in this. You guys have made me in a lot better place than I was before. End of the day I am only 28! Allah will give me his blessing! I am getting stronger with your support everyday. But I have my moments too when I break down.

I just read you're only 28. Sister you have a good few years and if you leave this pursuit , take a few months off if not more, heal yourself and get back to finding someone. Consider this a dodged bullet. 

Life is really not fair. People get cancer, some lose their mothers, some their fathers. Some people are born extremely short and have no chance at marriage, some people born with deformities. Some people are killed quickly, some die in air disasters, natural disasters, murder, and a range of different things. The moment i woke up one day and realised no-one owes me anything, bad things can happen, and i can either let it get me down or i can get back up and keep fighting and move on, is the day i feel was a turning point for me.

You're going to break down, maybe sometimes miss what you had. You're going to start thinking about a hundred different whatifs. However, someone who is actually good for you will make you feel secure, and not play you like this. When you find that person inshAllah, you'll look back and laugh i hope. 

If you do leave this pursuit, you must go NoContact. That means no communication whatsoever, blocked from everywhere - even change your number and ask your parents to block his number and his families number. Delete everything about him, because it will make it so much easier to move on.  Even if he comes running back and promising you things, maintain NoContact. This is you moving on for you. There will be hard days, some better than others, but time will heal.

To invite your parents all the way to Pakistan and tell them that is a total and utter joke, i'm sorry. A total joke. Can't even imagine what they as a mother and father are going through being also played around like this. Way too many sad stories from India and Pakistan you know.

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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2 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

My goodness, now how many times have i heard culture wrecking peoples lives? 

Till they don't get the enough sense to not to follow each and every thing good or bad in the name of culture and tradition blindly!! Sorry to say but the parents themselves feed in their kid's brain that culture and tradition thing without thinking twice where it leads to:angry:

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1 hour ago, Fakeha said:

Till they don't get the enough sense to not to follow each and every thing good or bad in the name of culture and tradition blindly!! Sorry to say but the parents themselves feed in their kid's brain that culture and tradition thing without thinking twice where it leads to:angry:

Heard too many people say they will never try to get married to anyone who lives in Pakistan/India, and while this may be extreme, there is some logic to it given that culture there generally has enormous room for improvement. It's sort of hijacked Islam in places. I wouldn't know though, i only go by testimony of hundreds of independent corroborating witnesses. 

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2 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

That's total rubbish. This is typical from the Pakistan/Indian countries, rife with utter superstition and harsh on women like no other.  I can't make you decide anything and don't make a judgement just based of what i say, but honestly, if you were my real sister i would have told you to forget this guy.  You've been strung along, he isn't committing, he is jumping from one answer to another - with due respect and not to backbite but to give you advice.  When you marry someone, they are your rock. You need to feel like you can trust them, and vice versa and not be plunged into uncertainty. If Mummy-Jee - with all due respect- controls him during the marriage, and if this were even to go through, just ponder for a moment over just how many more decisions you won't even be able to make as a couple ? It happens so many times in these types. 10 years is a long time, and your scars will heal. The best thing you can do is recognise you've had proposals - a lot as you say. Clearly you're sought after , use that to find someone more compatible who will commit and not play games.  If he comes begging to you to forgive him and the like, just exercise your better judgement.

Do you know what happens when people don't actually want something? They make excuses, one after the other and hop from one position to another. As i said, if i were in your shoes i would forget about someone playing with my mind in this fashion and move on. Work on self-improvement in all areas, and come back stronger than ever before, and to such a level you begin to shock people and are then able to have a far greater array of options and someone who is actually decent for you. 

InshAllah it all works out. 

 

Thank you so much for your kind and consoling words. Everyone who has contributed here, including yourself has no idea how much you are helping me go through this painful period in my life. maybe Allah is saving me from him and his family. his family tried everything to get rid of me but he kept pushing. In the end they said lets do this istikhara because then he will have nothing to argue with because according to them "it is the will of Allah" and that "Allah is not happy with this marriage". But I have to blame him aswell. If he was man enough, he would do the right thing. You are right, a life partner provides stability in life. He has never provided me comfort and in the end when I thought finally I am gonna be married to him he left me hanging saying my parents want to do istikhara because we want to seek what is best from Allah. They pull the Quran out and within a hours say Allah is not happy with this marriage. I feel sick thinking about all this. I would never do this to anyone. They are truly heartless and he genuinely doesn't love me. He is too busy trying to please his parents which I am not saying is a bad thing but even when the whole thing is wrong he can't stand up against it to fulfil the promise he made. I invested so much time and energy in this. I know the relationship was not right because a girl and guy should never talk. Maybe I am getting punished for this. He led me on for years and years with fake promises of marriage telling me it will happen now and then it would never happen. There was always an excuse ready and finally they bought it all down to this istikhara which they didn't even do properly. Maybe Allah is saving me from all this. You are right, if he is such a mummy's boy how will they let us live as a couple.  

I am gonna leave it to Allah now. I don't trust him. You know what he is afraid of? He is afraid that I will call his dad and speak to him. He is a 29 year old grown man and he is scared of these sort of things. It is time to move on. Please keep me in your prayers. I need yours duas. I also wish that Allah serves justice and that he gets exactly what he deserves. It's not just me he has caused this pain to. My parents also suffered. My mothers heart sinks everytime she sees what he is doing to me. He has given me nothing but tears. May Allah move my mind away from him and I am going to cut him off. It will be difficult but that is the only way out. As you said, I need to focus on myself. My career. I am a graduate, I can do so much but he has slowed my growth. He gave me so much pain from the age of 22 till now when I am 28 that it has impacted every part of my life. It will take time I know that but it has to be done. My parents always say if a man wants you he marries you. He doesn't make excuses. His life is full of excuses. If he told me that he comes from a superstitious family who only want him to do exactly what they I would have backed out but he pushed me in this to leave empty handed. I want to get married but I need time away from this. He is now saying to me I am doing another istikhara, wait for it. What kind of joke is that? Who plays with someone's life like that? He has no shame or mercy. He keeps saying istikhara has to be done and I can show you from Quran and major sources. He is dillusional. 

Thank you for your lovely words. I prayed to Allah few days ago for help and Allah guided me to this forum. I feel a lot stronger now that I have a community who I can take guidance from in this hard time. Thanks once again may Allah bless you. Inshallah 

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22 minutes ago, M666 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and consoling words. Everyone who has contributed here, including yourself has no idea how much you are helping me go through this painful period in my life. maybe Allah is saving me from him and his family. his family tried everything to get rid of me but he kept pushing. In the end they said lets do this istikhara because then he will have nothing to argue with because according to them "it is the will of Allah" and that "Allah is not happy with this marriage". But I have to blame him aswell. If he was man enough, he would do the right thing. You are right, a life partner provides stability in life. He has never provided me comfort and in the end when I thought finally I am gonna be married to him he left me hanging saying my parents want to do istikhara because we want to seek what is best from Allah. They pull the Quran out and within a hours say Allah is not happy with this marriage. I feel sick thinking about all this. I would never do this to anyone. They are truly heartless and he genuinely doesn't love me. He is too busy trying to please his parents which I am not saying is a bad thing but even when the whole thing is wrong he can't stand up against it to fulfil the promise he made. I invested so much time and energy in this. I know the relationship was not right because a girl and guy should never talk. Maybe I am getting punished for this. He led me on for years and years with fake promises of marriage telling me it will happen now and then it would never happen. There was always an excuse ready and finally they bought it all down to this istikhara which they didn't even do properly. Maybe Allah is saving me from all this. You are right, if he is such a mummy's boy how will they let us live as a couple.  

I am gonna leave it to Allah now. I don't trust him. You know what he is afraid of? He is afraid that I will call his dad and speak to him. He is a 29 year old grown man and he is scared of these sort of things. It is time to move on. Please keep me in your prayers. I need yours duas. I also wish that Allah serves justice and that he gets exactly what he deserves. It's not just me he has caused this pain to. My parents also suffered. My mothers heart sinks everytime she sees what he is doing to me. He has given me nothing but tears. May Allah move my mind away from him and I am going to cut him off. It will be difficult but that is the only way out. As you said, I need to focus on myself. My career. I am a graduate, I can do so much but he has slowed my growth. He gave me so much pain from the age of 22 till now when I am 28 that it has impacted every part of my life. It will take time I know that but it has to be done. My parents always say if a man wants you he marries you. He doesn't make excuses. His life is full of excuses. If he told me that he comes from a superstitious family who only want him to do exactly what they I would have backed out but he pushed me in this to leave empty handed. I want to get married but I need time away from this. He is now saying to me I am doing another istikhara, wait for it. What kind of joke is that? Who plays with someone's life like that? He has no shame or mercy. He keeps saying istikhara has to be done and I can show you from Quran and major sources. He is dillusional. 

Thank you for your lovely words. I prayed to Allah few days ago for help and Allah guided me to this forum. I feel a lot stronger now that I have a community who I can take guidance from in this hard time. Thanks once again may Allah bless you. Inshallah 

 

I have simple rule, if someone wants you, they will show it. If they don't they're going to consistently make excuses. Sometimes when you're married , or even engaged or even getting to know, wool might be pulled over ones eyes, and emotions often make it harder to see something clearly and objectively. You're a woman, and while you still are in your 20s , if you were strung along until your 30s marriage would have been much harder to find, though possible. Alhamdullilah you're not at that stage where someone has taken away your chance of finding someone decent, that i think is a real positive. This is your chance to take time off, heal, find yourself again and then get back up. This time you know the red flags, you know what sort of cultures to put a question mark over, and you don't have someone holding you back from finding someone compatible.  There are far too many red-flags here. As i said before, had you been my sister this would not have gone on anywhere near this long. 

Red flags (generic):

1. If anyone strings you along for years, and years and makes fake promises to commit but never does.

2. No honesty or transparency.

3. Playing around with emotions.

4. Not having the ability to make ones own decisions and this means your marriage is going to be a living hell as many women find out, when the mother in law is really in charge (this is so common, it's even been made into movies , the notorious 'Indian/Asian mother in law' though we should never generalise. )

 

I know you're probably emotionally attached - who wouldn't be after ten years?  However, let your parents know, get friends around you, go out, do things you enjoy, give yourself time to mourn and feel pain, and you'll have good days and bad days.  You're only 28, your life is ahead of you, inshAllah, consider this a bullet dodged and you'll never let yourself be fooled like this again.

With the right person, you'll find it takes work but it's 50/50, there's trust, there's transparency and everything else. They'll want to move it along just as much as you do for the Islamic form of commitment : marriage. 

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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44 minutes ago, M666 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and consoling words. Everyone who has contributed here, including yourself has no idea how much you are helping me go through this painful period in my life. maybe Allah is saving me from him and his family. his family tried everything to get rid of me but he kept pushing. In the end they said lets do this istikhara because then he will have nothing to argue with because according to them "it is the will of Allah" and that "Allah is not happy with this marriage". But I have to blame him aswell. If he was man enough, he would do the right thing. You are right, a life partner provides stability in life. He has never provided me comfort and in the end when I thought finally I am gonna be married to him he left me hanging saying my parents want to do istikhara because we want to seek what is best from Allah. They pull the Quran out and within a hours say Allah is not happy with this marriage. I feel sick thinking about all this. I would never do this to anyone. They are truly heartless and he genuinely doesn't love me. He is too busy trying to please his parents which I am not saying is a bad thing but even when the whole thing is wrong he can't stand up against it to fulfil the promise he made. I invested so much time and energy in this. I know the relationship was not right because a girl and guy should never talk. Maybe I am getting punished for this. He led me on for years and years with fake promises of marriage telling me it will happen now and then it would never happen. There was always an excuse ready and finally they bought it all down to this istikhara which they didn't even do properly. Maybe Allah is saving me from all this. You are right, if he is such a mummy's boy how will they let us live as a couple.  

I am gonna leave it to Allah now. I don't trust him. You know what he is afraid of? He is afraid that I will call his dad and speak to him. He is a 29 year old grown man and he is scared of these sort of things. It is time to move on. Please keep me in your prayers. I need yours duas. I also wish that Allah serves justice and that he gets exactly what he deserves. It's not just me he has caused this pain to. My parents also suffered. My mothers heart sinks everytime she sees what he is doing to me. He has given me nothing but tears. May Allah move my mind away from him and I am going to cut him off. It will be difficult but that is the only way out. As you said, I need to focus on myself. My career. I am a graduate, I can do so much but he has slowed my growth. He gave me so much pain from the age of 22 till now when I am 28 that it has impacted every part of my life. It will take time I know that but it has to be done. My parents always say if a man wants you he marries you. He doesn't make excuses. His life is full of excuses. If he told me that he comes from a superstitious family who only want him to do exactly what they I would have backed out but he pushed me in this to leave empty handed. I want to get married but I need time away from this. He is now saying to me I am doing another istikhara, wait for it. What kind of joke is that? Who plays with someone's life like that? He has no shame or mercy. He keeps saying istikhara has to be done and I can show you from Quran and major sources. He is dillusional. 

Thank you for your lovely words. I prayed to Allah few days ago for help and Allah guided me to this forum. I feel a lot stronger now that I have a community who I can take guidance from in this hard time. Thanks once again may Allah bless you. Inshallah 

InShahAllah, 

Move on sister, that is the best thing. 

Do Dua Tawwasul tonight and pour your heart out to Allah(s.w.a) and ask him to give you someone better. I have never done Dua Tawassul and my request wasn't answered in a short time. A brother  posted this video in another thread. I recommend you watch it, it will make you feel better. I started crying while watching it. Please say Dua for me so that I could do Ziyarat of Imam Reda(a.s). 

 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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