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Ibn Al-Shahid

Why will Allah punish the non-believers?

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السلام عليكم

I understand Allah punishing those who do terrible deeds and don't believe in him. But those who don't do evil deeds and don't believe in him, why punish them? Allah doesn't NEED their worship. What's the reason given by our Prophet and Imams عليه وعليهم افضل الصلاة والسلام about this issue? What do our philosophers say?

 

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I'm not sure how correct this opinion is, but a popular view is that there is a middle way. 

Those who were good humans but didn't believe in Allah, won't enter heaven but the fire of hell won't touch them.

But again, Allah knows what is in the hearts of everyone and will judge accordingly. 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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5 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

السلام عليكم

I understand Allah punishing those who do terrible deeds and don't believe in him. But those who don't do evil deeds and don't believe in him, why punish them? Allah doesn't NEED their worship. What's the reason given by our Prophet and Imams عليه وعليهم افضل الصلاة والسلام about this issue? What do our philosophers say?

 

Mr 

Ist Of all what do you mean by non beliver. 

Basically it is the rejection truth that makes one punishable. 

Acorrding pgislopher it is not that Allah punish one is non muslims but because of rejection of truth. 

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As salaamun aleikum,

its interesting because it isnt really Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى thats punishing us in barzakh/the akhira, rather, it is due to cause and effect. It is us who are punishing ourselves by acquiring our misdeeds,sins,etc. When we die, what we have done will manifest and become apparent to us. Its called tajasamul amaal, the embodiment of our actions. 

"On the Day when every person will be confronted with all the good he has done, and all the evil he has done, he will wish that there were a great distance between him and his evil." ( Surat Al-Imran, Verse 30)

They will wish there was a great distance, but its not possible as the sins will be embodied.

From Al-Islam:

19. And [remember] the Day that the enemies of Allah will be gathered to the Fire, then they will be restrained.
20. Till when they reach it, their hearing and their eyes and their skins will bear witness against them as to what they used to do.

The Arabic verbal form yuza’un is used in the sense of “they are restrained,” connoting that the first one is restrained to the coming of the last one following which they shall be driven to Hell. Representation of Resurrection leads to warning and guidance.

The Holy Qur’an asks the Noble Prophet (S) to remind people of such Day.

The blessed Verse 19 is saying that God Almighty makes mention of disbelievers and the manner of their advent of the Day of Resurrection reminding His Messenger (S) that upon their arrival, God’s enemies will be gathered such that those occupying the front row shall be restrained so that others may arrive and they all enter Hell.

Upon their assembly, their bodily organs, through Divine Command, bear witness against them: their ears bear testimony that they disregarded both the Signs of existence which were recurrently heard by them and the Qur’anic Verses heard by them.

They did not take any lessons but neglected them. Their skins bear witness that they touched unlawful objects. It is worthy of note that there is a vital force within bodily organs and everything shall attain to perfection on the Day of Resurrection.

Upon the arrival of human body from the mundane world to the Hereafter, all inward deeds and conducts shall be manifest through Divine Command and it may justify the secret of the manner of bearing testimony by bodily organs against man.

Verse 20 is saying that their ears bear witness to hearing the Call to proceed toward Truth but they turned away from it. Their eyes bear witness that they saw many a Signs indicating Divine Unity, but they failed to believe. Other bodily organs bear witness against their deeds and sins.

It is mentioned in ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim Qumi’s Tafsir17that the Verse is concerned with those whose deeds become manifest to them, but they deny them, saying:

“We are not aware of such deeds in the least.”

Then, the angels in charge of recording their deeds bear witness that they have committed such acts.

Imam Sadiq (as) said:

“They say unto God Almighty

‘O Lord! They are your angels and bear witness to your benefit.’

They take an oath that they have not committed any of such deeds.”

Thus, God Almighty places the seal of silence on their tongues and makes their bodily organs speak- any ear, eye, hand, and foot, having heard, seen, touched, and proceeded toward unlawful words, sights, objects, directions bear testimony before God Almighty.

Clearly mankind will be held accountable for their actions, so if a person is a non believer after the truth has been presented to them, they will spend their lifetime acquiring bad deeds, what will they have waiting for them? If they dont prepare for the trip, they wont have anything with them when they arrive.

 

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On 1/23/2018 at 1:58 AM, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

السلام عليكم

I understand Allah punishing those who do terrible deeds and don't believe in him. But those who don't do evil deeds and don't believe in him, why punish them? Allah doesn't NEED their worship. What's the reason given by our Prophet and Imams عليه وعليهم افضل الصلاة والسلام about this issue? What do our philosophers say?

 

If you understand that God does not need our worship then what has He created us for?

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9 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

He doesn't need our worship, He made us to worship. We need to worship.

We are like broken bones, we have no value, we can't damage Allah at all. We can only damage ourselves, spirtually and physically.

He doesn't need us! Nor will he ever need us! He is one! The most just, the great! My lord that knows what I hide or reveal!

Edited by Hamodiii

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1 hour ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

He doesn't need our worship, He made us to worship. We need to worship, and so we need others to worship.

Since you understand that we need to worship God, may I ask why we need to worship Him?  Certainly, Satan wouldn’t feel the need to worship God.  Do YOU really feel the need to worship God? If you do, can you explain it to me please?

Edited by eThErEaL

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25 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Since you understand that we need to worship God, may I ask why we need to worship Him?  Certainly, Satan wouldn’t feel the need to worship God.  Do YOU really feel the need to worship God? If you do, can you explain it to me please?

Because I truly believe he deserves to be worshiped.

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9 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Why doesn’t Satan feel that way?

Arrogance, purely arrogance, he got a high status, and ended up in the path of hellfire.

Edited by Hamodiii

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Everyone is responsible for the knowledge that they have. People are rewarded or punished not only based on their apparent action, but on the belief, knowledge, and intention behind the action. 

The fact that Allah(s.w.a) exists, He(s.w.a) is One, All Powerful, Merciful, etc and that Muhammad(p.b.u.h) is the Messenger of Allah(s.w.a) is quite obvious. If anyone doesn't believe the preceding and would like to have a discussion, I would be glad to oblige. Any sincere person seeking the truth will find it. The only ones who don't find the truth are the ones who are not looking for it. They are not looking for it because they are averse to it. They are averse to it because they are afraid that if they find it and accept it they will have to give up something of their lusts and habits (i.e. some of the dunya which they falsely believe they can't do without). So those people who live many years and decades on this earth and never make any sort of effort to seek out the truth or reject it after they find it are people who have forgotten about their Creator(s.w.a). So their Creator(s.w.a) has forgotten about them, and since Allah(s.w.a) is the source of all happiness, goodness, peace, mercy, basically every good thing, when Allah(s.w.a) forgets about you, you have noone and nothing and the result of that is punishment (the absence of good). 

Especially now, in the modern world, where we have access to more information and good sources of information than any previous generation in human history, we have the responsibility to seek out the truth and once we find it to follow it.

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5 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

If you understand that God does not need our worship then what has He created us for?

this is interesting. He created human and jinn to worship Him. Certainly Allah is free from any need. So, can you enlighten me what has He created us for? :cuddle:

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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Why doesn’t Satan feel that way?

Satan isn't the type of person who wants leadership or wants to be the highest, supreme.

Think of him as a little kid who wants to be "the special kid", and be the favorite of the teacher.

That's why he didn't want to prostrate to Adam (a), he wanted to be the special one; not Adam (aleyhi asalam).

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11 hours ago, justAnothermuslim said:

this is interesting. He created human and jinn to worship Him. Certainly Allah is free from any need. So, can you enlighten me what has He created us for? :cuddle:

God created everything purely out of charitable love and mercy.  The natural human response to charity is appreciation/ gratitude / thankfulness (shukr) rather than ingratitude (kufr) which is due to unappreciation or not acknowledging (not having iman) that God is Charitable and Merciful.   If one is not grateful, if one does not appreciate or acknowledge the mercy of God (if one is a kafir) then he is not doing what is natural and in-keeping with his nature (his fitrah)

It turns out that we can never pay back our debt to God.  We can never be sufficiently grateful or thankful to God.  This is because our gratefulness is only made possible through and by God Himself.  One way God enables us to be thankful to Him is by giving us a prescription to follow (the laws of what to do and what not to do, the rituals, and the rites).  All of this is for our own benefit in order to fulfill our need to be thankful and grateful to God.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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11 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

God created everything purely out of charitable love and mercy.  The natural human response to charity is appreciation/ gratitude / thankfulness (shukr) rather than ingratitude (kufr) which is due to unappreciation or not acknowledging (not having iman) that God is Charitable and Merciful.   If one is not grateful, if one does not appreciate or acknowledge the mercy of God (if one is a kafir) then he is not doing what is natural and in-keeping with his nature (his fitrah)

It turns out that we can never pay back our debt to God.  We can never be sufficiently grateful or thankful to God.  This is because our gratefulness is only made possible through and by God Himself.  One way God enables us to be thankful to Him is by giving us a prescription to follow (the laws of what to do and what not to do, the rituals, and the rites).  All of this is for our own benefit in order to fulfill our need to be thankful and grateful to God.  

if i understand you correctly, the bold part (my doing) is the reason why we worship God: it's for our own benefit. i tend to agree with this. 

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17 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Because I truly believe he deserves to be worshiped.

So, since you know He deserves to be worshipped, you feel a strong need to worship Him.  Not doing so (i.e. not worshipping Him) would be to your own detriment, not doing so would cause you to suffer.  

So this should answer your initial question:

Technically speaking, it is not God who causes those who are ungrateful (kafirun) or those who do not worship Him to suffer.  Rather, the kafirun inflict suffering upon themselves.  

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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Just my opinion below :

I think for you to be a non-believer, you need to know what you dont believe in...i,e they got the message, but still choose to be a non-believer.

If you never got the message ( this is another discussion that does everyone get the message in one way or the other) , you are ignorant, not a non-believer..i,e you dont know what you dont believe in..kinda like explaining a color to a person who has never seen..he doesnt know what he hasnt actually ever seen

 

 

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2 hours ago, peopleofchadar said:

Just my opinion below :

I think for you to be a non-believer, you need to know what you dont believe in...i,e they got the message, but still choose to be a non-believer.

If you never got the message ( this is another discussion that does everyone get the message in one way or the other) , you are ignorant, not a non-believer..i,e you dont know what you dont believe in..kinda like explaining a color to a person who has never seen..he doesnt know what he hasnt actually ever seen

Salam,

The Quran doesn’t mean “belief” when it uses the word “iman”.  “Iman” is a kind of “luminous” knowledge found in the seat or center of man’s awareness (i.e. the Heart).  The word “belief” implies the possibility of being incorrect.  Think of the difference between “I know 1 - 1 = 0” vs “I believe “1 - 1 = 0”.  For me, the best way to translate “iman” would be “heart-presence”, “heart-knowing”, or even “awareness”.  Iman is not a thought, a feeling, or an act per se.  it is rather the awareness itself that one has of thought, feeling and action.  Do you believe God exists or are you aware that God exists?  A belief is not counted as “iman”.  A belief is a mere thought. Thoughts come and go like the wind.  But the same cannot be said about awareness.  You are never unaware.  And if you say you were or can be unaware then the only way for you to say that is if you were aware of that unawareness (which is impossible).

 

The situation is like this:

A child is raised by his loving parents. The child, while growing up and takes all that love and affection for granted.  In other words, he doesn’t appreciate it.  He becomes mature, and someone tells him, “you should be grateful you have parents, and you need to show your appreciation towards them while they are alive”.  This child who is now a grown man doesn’t heed the guidance and continues to be oblivious of the love and affection from his parents, he continues to take them for granted.  One day, the parents pass away.  He stops getting that affection and love and starts to miss them.   He suffers because he feels guilty for not showing courtesy towards them and for not even appreciating them.  Will this person not feel bad, will he not suffer?  

The same is for those who are kafir.  The punishment comes about by simply not being aware of God’s mercy.  The prophets are but warners, telling them about something they already know about.  They simply need to take heed and be serious about acknowledging or appreciating God’s bounties.  Whether or not a religion is presented to them, it really doesn’t matter.  They are held accountable for the obvious truth.

Edited by eThErEaL

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