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Sisterfatima1

Jesus does not claim to be god in the bible

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4 minutes ago, Mishael said:

If God is all powerful he would be able to do all these things. But actually in all Abrahamic faiths including Islam the belief is shared that God already knows the outcome of all things and yet tests them with trails in life this is not only in Christianity.

Allah knows outcome of everything but only test creatures that have power of thinking & decision making that are humans & Jins so the other creatures will not examined 

 

8 minutes ago, Mishael said:

But I cannot bring a true example for the complexity of God and to put it simply if God is so all powerful he must be very complicated for us to understand. There is nothing truly on this Earth I can bring as an example to him.

It’s true we can’t bring an example for him but what you describing is trinity not God so trinity must have an example in this world because in christian view one time it a part of it materialized thus it must be repeatable for second time

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2 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Sorry I didn't understand you very well can you repeat please.

hi christian says that God comes as Jesus on earth so a part of trinity materialized and when God do it one time thus he can repeat it again to proof for everyone that he has unlimited power & knowledge but after or before Jesus we don't see something like this.  

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On 1/27/2018 at 6:46 AM, Mishael said:

There was no hole, as for using a bag of dice as an example not all dice are the same and will have varying differences and one will slightly be heavier then the other and one might be slightly lighter then the other and the color pigment will not be necessarily the same if looked at in detail. While in the trinity each is equal and acts in unity with each other a bag of dice wouldn't act in unity and would flop to where ever they want, It's more like three small magnets that are exactly the same which is probably not possible but let's say we have three magnets that are exactly the same in every way and are able to form up and form one big magnet you could say that they are on magnet especially if they came as one magnet. Another example could be a triangle with three sides it's still one triangle but it has three sides.

But hold on. What ever you say about them being equal or in "unity", there must be something that makes them different, or they would just be one. Hence my original question which you have failed to answer, which was in what way is God one, is it in terms of his will, his essence, his power etc.

As however you answer the question, you can not say God is one, then turn to us and say, actually he is three in terms of property x , but one in terms of property y. 

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11 hours ago, Mishael said:

Each has a different task yet all are one in essence and all are equal in nature of their existence,

The task is something separate to God, and God is before any task or creation. God therefore can not be defined by tasks or by creation. 

 

 

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On 2018-01-22 at 5:13 AM, Sisterfatima1 said:

John 7:34 ( this is also proof Jesus did not die on the cross)

34 You will seek me and you will not find me. Where I am you cannot come.

John 6:38 


For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.

John 5:30 


By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 8:28

28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

No. Jesus does not claim to be God. He does not claim he is God either. From the very beginning Christians believed Jesus was divine, but they did not agree on how.  Ebionites, part of the Jerusalem Church lead by Jesus brother James, rejected the Virgin Birth and believed Jesus became divine when baptized by John. Some believed Jesus had always existed, others that he was created by being born by a Virgin. Christians still differ althou the mighty Catholic Churchs trinity concept since the third century has dominated. 

However all Book in the New Testament (John, that you misinterpret inclusively), all Christians agree Jesus died on the Cross and resurected. All Historians also agree, only they do not see the resurection as a fact. 

 

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4 hours ago, andres said:

No. Jesus does not claim to be God. He does not claim he is God either. From the very beginning Christians believed Jesus was divine, but they did not agree on how.  Ebionites, part of the Jerusalem Church lead by Jesus brother James, rejected the Virgin Birth and believed Jesus became divine when baptized by John. Some believed Jesus had always existed, others that he was created by being born by a Virgin. Christians still differ althou the mighty Catholic Churchs trinity concept since the third century has dominated. 

However all Book in the New Testament (John, that you misinterpret inclusively), all Christians agree Jesus died on the Cross and resurected. All Historians also agree, only they do not see the resurection as a fact. 

 

There is certainly something special about Jesus son of Mary (God bless him). However its such a jump in rational thought and religion to get to the point that a man is God.

When I chat to Christians about it, you can see deep down that they struggle with this.

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7 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

There is certainly something special about Jesus son of Mary (God bless him). However its such a jump in rational thought and religion to get to the point that a man is God.

When I chat to Christians about it, you can see deep down that they struggle with this.

Many do struggle. There is no explanation that can totally satisfy, so many Christians remain believers in one God. In most Christian denominations it is blasphemy not to believe in a trinity so they question in silence. 

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16 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Many do struggle. There is no explanation that can totally satisfy, so many Christians remain believers in one God. In most Christian denominations it is blasphemy not to believe in a trinity so they question in silence. 

Can your views on the concept of the trinity?

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On 1/31/2018 at 11:58 AM, iraqi_shia said:

Can your views on the concept of the trinity?

The concept of trinity didn't even surface until the second council of Nicaea. In the first council, initiated by Constantine the big argument was the "duality" of God, making Jesus into God. The main man, (Arius) who opposed this concept was kicked out, finally invited back to the council, but died mysteriously. No records of the arguments or how they came to the conclusions they did. The only records of Arius are written by his opponents. 

Of all the accusations of corruption of the scriptures you'd think at least once you would see Jesus say "I am God". The fact that it doesn't speaks more for the validity of the scripture than the religions derived from it. 

There are references to more than one entity in the Old Testament that are interpreted as God in English even though the Hebrew is more specific. I believe the Hebrew expression "God of gods" comes about by their abundant use of the word "god" to describe most anything they didn't understand. This is why everything gets confused but let's not forget that the Israelites were not exactly monotheistic. 

What I see is one God that created a considerable amount of beings, of varied ranks. He didn't create them to cheer Him on as He did all the work. Gabriel is an obvious example of how God works. 

Jesus called God His father often, followed by, "Who is in heaven". Actually, there are many instances where Jesus made obvious divisions between Himself and God. How to ignore these verses and teach trinity, I don't know.

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On 2/4/2018 at 6:30 AM, Son of Placid said:

The concept of trinity didn't even surface until the second council of Nicaea. In the first council, initiated by Constantine the big argument was the "duality" of God, making Jesus into God. The main man, (Arius) who opposed this concept was kicked out, finally invited back to the council, but died mysteriously. No records of the arguments or how they came to the conclusions they did. The only records of Arius are written by his opponents. 

Of all the accusations of corruption of the scriptures you'd think at least once you would see Jesus say "I am God". The fact that it doesn't speaks more for the validity of the scripture than the religions derived from it. 

There are references to more than one entity in the Old Testament that are interpreted as God in English even though the Hebrew is more specific. I believe the Hebrew expression "God of gods" comes about by their abundant use of the word "god" to describe most anything they didn't understand. This is why everything gets confused but let's not forget that the Israelites were not exactly monotheistic. 

What I see is one God that created a considerable amount of beings, of varied ranks. He didn't create them to cheer Him on as He did all the work. Gabriel is an obvious example of how God works. 

Jesus called God His father often, followed by, "Who is in heaven". Actually, there are many instances where Jesus made obvious divisions between Himself and God. How to ignore these verses and teach trinity, I don't know.

Thank you for sharing that.

So how would you describe the flavor of Christian ideology you lean towards? Unitarianism? 

 

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