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ali_fatheroforphans

Same sex marriage legalized in Australia

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1 hour ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

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That's my Boy :D .

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8 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

The Quranic laws don't belong to a exact period thus we need infallible person to interrupts it fir us.

Was it not legal for Muslims to have  more than 4 wives? Did the Quran not change this?

The first Muslims prayed in direction Jerusalem. Did the Quran not change this?

Is it the Quran that says one laws is valid until replaced by a better? 

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10 minutes ago, notme said:

Gay people marrying each other is none of my business. It's none of anyone's business except those directly involved. I don't think the government should have any authority over who marries who, so long as nobody is coerced or oppressed and all involved parties are sane and adult. 

I also don't think the government should have the authority to force any religious organization or cleric to perform a ceremony against their wishes.

I know nearly everyone here disagrees with me. 

Not sure anyone disagrees if the context is living in America, the UK where a system is in place, and we all live together in that system.  Imo, what people do is their own business, not a concern of mine. They can do the way they wish, it's not my duty to get involved with that. 

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44 minutes ago, andres said:

Was it not legal for Muslims to have  more than 4 wives? Did the Quran not change this?

The first Muslims prayed in direction Jerusalem. Did the Quran not change this?

Is it the Quran that says one laws is valid until replaced by a better? 

All its coming from translation but understanding true meaning it need experts person as infallible Imams & persons that narrate their hadiths propperly

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

All its coming from translation but understanding true meaning it need experts person as infallible Imams & persons that narrate their hadiths propperly

I asked 3 rather simple questions about content in the Quran. If "normal" Muslims cannot answer, the Quran is only for experts. Infallible experts that do not always agree because the Book is unclear. Most of them being Sunni, others Shia or something else. Why not make up your own mind?

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3 hours ago, andres said:

I am not to judge Muhammed for having 11 wives. It was a different culture, and I do not believe God is unable to make rules that fit changing circumstances. 

I was here even not talking about Muhammad (saws) but about the other prophets who existed before Jesus (as) who for most of them were polygamous. 

And no i am not agree like i said it is the humans who must adapt to Allah not the opposite.

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3 hours ago, andres said:

I do not believe Jesus was homo, but I believe he would say that that minority should be treated with care instead of persecution.

I do not believe all Quraniv laws are suitable for a modern democrasy. It was written in the 7th century, inspired by the laws back then.

No he would treat them like your books say about homosexuals that they commit sins and must repent.  "Democracy" is compatible with islam if this government doesnt go against main principles of islam.

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3 hours ago, notme said:

Gay people marrying each other is none of my business. It's none of anyone's business except those directly involved. I don't think the government should have any authority over who marries who, so long as nobody is coerced or oppressed and all involved parties are sane and adult. 

I also don't think the government should have the authority to force any religious organization or cleric to perform a ceremony against their wishes.

I know nearly everyone here disagrees with me. 

So what will you think if one day people could marry with their mother of some stuffs like that if after all they are in love each other and they majors ?

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3 hours ago, andres said:

Was it not legal for Muslims to have  more than 4 wives? Did the Quran not change this?

The first Muslims prayed in direction Jerusalem. Did the Quran not change this?

Is it the Quran that says one laws is valid until replaced by a better? 

Yeah the quran not humans and that is the big difference.

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4 hours ago, andres said:

The Bible does not explicit forbid a person to have many wives or husbands. 

Yeah then why do you make such a strong claim that "according to my religion it is adultery"?

Clearly you're suiting religion to your own desires and what you feel it should be.

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59 minutes ago, andres said:

I asked 3 rather simple questions about content in the Quran. If "normal" Muslims cannot answer, the Quran is only for experts. Infallible experts that do not always agree because the Book is unclear. Most of them being Sunni, others Shia or something else. Why not make up your own mind?

Sunnis adopts Quran to their minds & desires as like as Christians so they astray from the true way.

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44 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

Yeah the quran not humans and that is the big difference.

Thank you for being able to answer my three questions. Here we are with 2 examples of God changing laws. And one verse that says he may do so. If this is true, God could very well have different sets of laws for different cultures.

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27 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Yeah then why do you make such a strong claim that "according to my religion it is adultery"?

Clearly you're suiting religion to your own desires and what you feel it should be.

Is everything that not is forbidden in the Quran allowed? Had the Quran not forbidden women to marry 4 men, it would be allowed? 

(Actually I am not certain the Quran does, do you know?)

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14 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Sunnis adopts Quran to their minds & desires as like as Christians so they astray from the true way.

Who is to blaim for 90 % of Muslims not being able to understand the Quran?

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source?]

 مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا ۗ أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللَّـهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ ﴿١٠٦

 

Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?(106)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/2:106

AbrogationEdit

Naskh (نسخ) is an Arabic language word usually translated as "abrogation"; it shares the same root as the words appearing in the phrase al-nāsikh wal-mansūkh (الناسخ والمنسوخ, "the abrogater and the abrogated [verses]"). The concept of "abrogation" in the Quran is that God chose to reveal ayat (singular ayah; means a sign or miracle, commonly a verse in the Quran) that supersede earlier ayat in the same Quran.[citation needed] The abrogation means that the revelation about the stories of previous messengers cannot be used as legal basis because they are abrogated by more general verses of Quran. The central ayah that deals with abrogation is Surah 2:106:

"We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?"[66]

Philip Schaff argues that the concept of abrogation was developed to "remove" contradictions found in the Quran:

"It abounds in repetitions and contradictions, which are not removed by the convenient theory of abrogation."[39]

Muhammad Husayn Tabatabaei believes abrogation in Quranic verses is not an indication of contradiction but an indication of addition and supplementation. As an example he mentions 2:109[67] where -according to him- it clearly states the forgiveness is not permanent and soon there will be another command (through another verse) on this subject that completes the matter. He also mentions 4:15[67] where the abrogated verse indicates its temporariness.[68]

Other scholars; however, have translated the 'abrogation' verse differently and disagree with the mainstream view. Ghulam Ahmed Parwezin his Exposition of the Quran derived the following meaning from the verse 2:106, making it consistent with the overall content of the Quran:

The Ahl-ul-Kitab (People of the Book) also question the need for a new revelation (Qur'an) when previous revelations from Allah exist. They further ask why the Qur'an contains injunctions contrary to the earlier Revelation (the Torah) if it is from Allah? Tell them that Our way of sending Revelation to successive anbiya (prophets) is that: Injunctions given in earlier revelations, which were meant only for a particular time, are replaced by other injunctions, and injunctions which were to remain in force permanently but were abandoned, forgotten or adulterated by the followers of previous anbiya are given again in their original form (22:52). And all this happens in accordance with Our laid down standards, over which We have complete control. Now this last code of life which contains the truth of all previous revelations (5:48), is complete in every respect (6:116), and will always be preserved (15:9), has been given [to mankind].[69]
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Quran
 

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13 minutes ago, andres said:

Who is to blaim for 90 % of Muslims not being able to understand the Quran?

It’s because of people that stranded against will of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) &didn’t recognize  infallible Imams (as) right & oppressed them & their followers it said in shia hadiths when Imam Mahdi (aj) reappears will educate to all human kind true & best meaning of Quran.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 hour ago, andres said:

Thank you for being able to answer my three questions. Here we are with 2 examples of God changing laws. And one verse that says he may do so. If this is true, God could very well have different sets of laws for different cultures.

No that just means he did a gradual revelations before final message and after that it is finish.

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12 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

The majority is not always in the truth according to quran .

I am certain both Sunnies and Shias do their best to understand the Quran. It must be very difficult, maybe even impossible. 

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16 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

No that just means he did a gradual revelations before final message and after that it is finish.

You mean, with the Quran God did the final changes?

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8 minutes ago, andres said:

I am certain both Sunnies and Shias do their best to understand the Quran. It must be very difficult, maybe even impossible. 

We have indeed a lot of in common in most practices with some divergences.

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1 hour ago, andres said:

Is everything that not is forbidden in the Quran allowed? Had the Quran not forbidden women to marry 4 men, it would be allowed? 

(Actually I am not certain the Quran does, do you know?)

Yeah but when the Bible is full of verses of Prophets who had many wives, then it makes no sense to label it as adultery.

It's not that the Bible just doesn't forbid the marrying of four wives, it gives examples that Prophets had them. 

On what basis do you equate this to adultery?

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8 hours ago, alidu78 said:

This is indeed our belief.

So, when God forbade Muslims to marry more than 4 wives, was this ban valid for non-Muslims worldwide? (America, Australia, Hawaii etc.)

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