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ali_fatheroforphans

Same sex marriage legalized in Australia

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Salam,

As you all know now, same-sex marriage has been legalized in Australia through public vote.

My siblings argue with me and have a stance that we should all vote "Yes" for gay marriage (not that it matters anymore) because why should we force our religion to other people. They say that if gay people don't believe in any religion, then who are we to take away their right by not letting them get married. 

For future reference, say that you got a letter posted to your house, to have your input on whether gay marriage should be legalized - What will your vote be? And why?

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The decision by the govt of Australia is not surprising. This trend has been going on for a while now. But I would tell your brother, that as muslims, we cannot 'vote' for something that is against our religion. We are not taking away their right, if they live in Australia, they now have the legal right to do this. That doesn't mean we have to agree with it. 

Imam Sadiq(a.s) said regarding 'Amr bil Maroof wa nahiya Al Munkhar' enjoining good and forbidding evil, that it is the duty of every muslim to do this. (I am paraphrasing here). If we see something that is Al Munkhar (wrong/ unjust / bad) we should change it with our hands. If we can't change it with our hands, we should speak against it with our tongues. If we can't speak against it with our tongues, then we should disassociate ourselves from it in our hearts, and this is the weakest form of faith. 

What I have found is that those of us who live in Western Countries where this stuff is legal, and more of the 'Al Munkhar' (for example marijuana) is becoming legal every day, have a duty to speak out against it, at least. Most of us are not in the position to change it with our hands (we are not in the government), so the least we can do is use our tongues to speak out against it as much as we can. We can do this at the present time without our lives or property being taken.  If we fail to do this, then we are going to be partially responsible for the evil consequences for this which will inevitably hit the places where we live (and it is already starting to hit). 

In another hadith, Imam Sadiq(a.s.) said that there are three doers of a deed (three groups), the one(s) who do it, the ones who help them in it, and the ones who are satisfied with it in their hearts, and these three are partners(in doing the deed). He was explaining why Allah(s.w.a) destroyed the people of Salih, although there was only one person who actually did the deed (of killing the she camel).

So if we fail to do 'Amr bil Maroof....' then eventually, gradually, we will move toward the position of being satisfied with evil and then we will be included with the people of evil and not the people of good. 

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Gay marriage has been around even before they've legalized it; they still had rights as human beings so idek why they kept complaining...

And obviously  I'd vote 'No' because why would I vote for something that's against my religion; and it's not only because of religion if you look at it a common perspective gay marriage is immoral and unnatural.

You know what's sad? There was this kid's show on tv where they were showing a gay couple with two young children, like now they're trying to show younger generations that same sex marriage is safe and isn't harmful. And who knows they'll most likely teach it in public schools too.

Well it is harmful to the younger generation because then how are they gonna know the difference between friendship and love? And a child needs both a mother and a father in their life otherwise they'll face many difficulties later in life.

Like you're not taking away their rights if you don't vote yes and like honestly who cares about them, why would we vote just for them when we know its something so immoral to our society.

So hell no to same sex marriage.

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The government asked my opinion and I gave it. I voted no in the referendum but I knew it was going to pass. We live in a secular country although many claim to be Christian many are agnostic and we as Muslims don’t have any right to tell how the majority should live especially if many are accomodating to the Islamic faith in their own backyard. However, personally I do not recognise this outcome and I am worried about other things considered sinful becoming acceptable and mainstream. 

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1 hour ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

You know what's sad? There was this kid's show on tv where they were showing a gay couple with two young children, like now they're trying to show younger generations that same sex marriage is safe and isn't harmful. And who knows they'll most likely teach it in public schools too.

Well it is harmful to the younger generation because then how are they gonna know the difference between friendship and love? And a child needs both a mother and a father in their life otherwise they'll face many difficulties later in life.

Everything would be so easy if there were no homosexuals. Buy there are. 5% or so are born with this sexual instinct. I grew up without a father, he died when I was a Child and my Mom never remarried. Had I been harmed if I have had 2 mothers instead of only one mother? I dont see why.  Some kids have one father and 4 mothers, seems to work. Or is it "safe" as long as parents are not homosexual? It is perfectly OK that you are against gay marriage,  but there are no indications that homosexual persons are more harmful to children or our society than others. 

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5 hours ago, andres said:

Everything would be so easy if there were no homosexuals. Buy there are. 5% or so are born with this sexual instinct. I grew up without a father, he died when I was a Child and my Mom never remarried. Had I been harmed if I have had 2 mothers instead of only one mother? I dont see why.  Some kids have one father and 4 mothers, seems to work. Or is it "safe" as long as parents are not homosexual? It is perfectly OK that you are against gay marriage,  but there are no indications that homosexual persons are more harmful to children or our society than others. 

Right on, we also should introduce the third gender to the children as well and in fact we should manipulate their natural way of seeing at things in order to have them aligned with our modern liberal view of things that goes against our entire history in all of society as a specie.

Lets just put every child born gender to "no binary" and give the boys dresses and dolls to wear and force the girls to play computer games and fight each other. Then later on their 3 daddies and two moms and one non binary mom/dad can give them the choice of choosing what gender they would like to be, they can even chose to be a "fluid gender" or no gender at all. Because that is apparently how the world works.

Sounds like a healthy society to me...

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5 hours ago, andres said:

Everything would be so easy if there were no homosexuals. Buy there are. 5% or so are born with this sexual instinct. I grew up without a father, he died when I was a Child and my Mom never remarried. Had I been harmed if I have had 2 mothers instead of only one mother? I dont see why.  Some kids have one father and 4 mothers, seems to work. Or is it "safe" as long as parents are not homosexual? It is perfectly OK that you are against gay marriage,  but there are no indications that homosexual persons are more harmful to children or our society than others. 

Homosexuals are harmful 

Research shows that children who are in a gay family are most likely to face more difficulties in life, such as sexual abuse and sexual disorders.

Children without a father are most likely to face early sexual activity

Children without a mother are deprived of their unique advice and safe security.

What you said about one father and 4 mothers, yes it does seem to work because they have parents from different genders, and it isn't harmful at all.

But in Western society, polygyny/ polygamy is seen as immoral to them when gay marriage is not.

Marriage is a privilege, not a right.

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5 hours ago, andres said:

but there are no indications that homosexual persons are more harmful to children or our society than others. 

Yeah they aren't harmful in a physical sense no doubt.

However they are harmful in a sense of contributing towards an animalistic society. They are attacking the spiritual aspect of society. 

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5 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Right on, we also should introduce the third gender to the children as well and in fact we should manipulate their natural way of seeing at things in order to have them aligned with our modern liberal view of things that goes against our entire history in all of society as a specie.

Lets just put every child born gender to "no binary" and give the boys dresses and dolls to wear and force the girls to play computer games and fight each other. Then later on their 3 daddies and two moms and one non binary mom/dad can give them the choice of choosing what gender they would like to be, they can even chose to be a "fluid gender" or no gender at all. Because that is apparently how the world works.

Sounds like a healthy society to me...

A chromosome error sometimes result in a human that actually is neither male or female. What shall they be called?

Is it not better to allow the child to choose what to play with? Most boys will choose boys toys, girls choose girls toys. Only a few percent will do the opposite. You cannot change their sexuality by forcing them to use toys they do not prefer.

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3 hours ago, andres said:

A chromosome error sometimes result in a human that actually is neither male or female. What shall they be called?

Is it not better to allow the child to choose what to play with? Most boys will choose boys toys, girls choose girls toys. Only a few percent will do the opposite. You cannot change their sexuality by forcing them to use toys they do not prefer.

The term eunuch (/ˈjuːnək/Greekεὐνοῦχος)[1] generally refers to a man who has been castrated,[2] typically early enough in his life for this change to have major hormonalconsequences. In Latin, the words eunuchus,[3] spado (Greek: σπάδων spadon),[4][5] and castratus were used to denote eunuchs.[6]

In translations of the Bible into modern European languages, such as the Luther Bible or the King James Bible, the word eunuchus as found in the Latin Vulgate is usually rendered as officer, official or chamberlain, consistent with the idea that the original meaning of eunuch was bed-keeper (Orion's first option). Modern religious scholars have been disinclined to assume that the courts of Israel and Judah included castrated men,[20] even though the original translation of the Bible into Greek used the word eunoukhos.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

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1 hour ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

Homosexuals are harmful 

Research shows that children who are in a gay family are most likely to face more difficulties in life, such as sexual abuse and sexual disorders.

Children without a father are most likely to face early sexual activity

Children without a mother are deprived of their unique advice and safe security.

What you said about one father and 4 mothers, yes it does seem to work because they have parents from different genders, and it isn't harmful at all.

But in Western society, polygyny/ polygamy is seen as immoral to them when gay marriage is not.

Marriage is a privilege, not a right.

Can you give an example of countries where statistics say that children of gay families are more sexually abused than in normal families? 

Children without a Mother deprived of their unique advice and safe security? Muhammed did pretty well missing his mother at ageof 6.

Children without a father more likely to face early sexual activity? What is the problem with early sexual activity? Aisha also did pretty well.

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

The term eunuch (/ˈjuːnək/Greekεὐνοῦχος)[1] generally refers to a man who has been castrated,[2] typically early enough in his life for this change to have major hormonalconsequences. In Latin, the words eunuchus,[3] spado (Greek: σπάδων spadon),[4][5] and castratus were used to denote eunuchs.[6]

In translations of the Bible into modern European languages, such as the Luther Bible or the King James Bible, the word eunuchus as found in the Latin Vulgate is usually rendered as officer, official or chamberlain, consistent with the idea that the original meaning of eunuch was bed-keeper (Orion's first option). Modern religious scholars have been disinclined to assume that the courts of Israel and Judah included castrated men,[20] even though the original translation of the Bible into Greek used the word eunoukhos.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

I was thinking about humans that for example are born with both fermale and male genitals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

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3 hours ago, andres said:

I was thinking about humans that for example are born with both fermale and male genitals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

They are exists but in ancient dynasties finding them was hard so they use methods to form such people as their crows among females

that is mentioned in Persian letters book

 https://archive.org/details/persianletters00montuoft

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

 

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

They are exists but in ancient dynasties finding them was hard so they use methods to form such people as their crows among females

that is mentioned in Persian letters book

 https://archive.org/details/persianletters00montuoft

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

Gender operations are also made here in Sweden. But obviously not as many as in Iran. Not all wish to be operated, prefering to stay like nature created them. Labelling their gender "other" seems logical.

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Wa Alaikum Asalam,

Actually, this is a famous riwaya (prophecy) done by the prophet (s) and imams (a) (found in Sunni books as well as Shia), where during the end of times homosexuality will be completely normal.

I think that by the year 2030, every current non-Muslim country will allow homosexuality.

I just hope no Muslim gets dragged into it and becomes fine with this.

This is oppression to God, as he did not make us like this. His nature was that we were made to marry the opposite gender, not the same.

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2 hours ago, Hussaini624 said:

Wa Alaikum Asalam,

Actually, this is a famous riwaya (prophecy) done by the prophet (s) and imams (a) (found in Sunni books as well as Shia), where during the end of times homosexuality will be completely normal.

I think that by the year 2030, every current non-Muslim country will allow homosexuality.

I just hope no Muslim gets dragged into it and becomes fine with this.

This is oppression to God, as he did not make us like this. His nature was that we were made to marry the opposite gender, not the same.

Homosexuality was accepted in the Roman Empire. When Christianity became the official religion it was no longer accepted and homosexuals had to hide. In Sweden it was illegal until 1944 (wikipedia). Before 1944 the percentage of homosexuals in Sweden was the same as it is today. And as it always has been everywhere else in the world. Less visible in nations where it is forbidden. Even more of course in nations where they hang.

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

:confused:

You reacted with a surprise "smiley". I am also surprised that Iran carries out so many sex operations. If true, that is.

Before the Islamic Revolution in 1979, the issue of trans identity in Iran had never been officially addressed by the government. Beginning in the mid-1980s, however, transgender individuals were officially recognized by the government and allowed to undergo sex reassignment surgery. As of 2008, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except Thailand. The government provides up to half the cost for those needing financial assistance, and a sex change is recognised on the birth certificate.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

Edited by andres

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@andres

[MOD NOTE: removed image that contained an inappropriate word]

Homosexuality is a very unhealthy behavior:

http://www.icna.org/diseases-related-to-homosexuality/

BB532F23-4225-4CD1-B148-7B1C900BBFB3.jpeg.f3346ecb8367c663e92750e8b4d3ac9d.jpeg

FC397582-6C49-4427-BF4B-2B1F54A93620.jpeg.ebe71e21352d1eb431f8a4e5713628ae.jpeg

Does it really seem strange that homosexuals are 3% of the population, yet 55% of HIV carries, 82% of syphylis cases, 20% of HBV cases, 37% of Anal Cancer and 78% have a STD?

Furthermore, I don’t really understand any moral basis under Secular or Atheistic ground.

As far as we’re concerned, there’s yet to be found a rational source for morality. Principles such as the democratic one have failed for the reason that more implications would arise, was slavery justified and morally right back then when the majority agreed to such terms? Or the Liberal principal of consequence portraying everything to be morally right, unless effecting others. Is incest morally right as it effects none but those who commit it? Or the self-damage principal which advocates for damaging actions being morally wrong, is drinking your father’s sperm morally right as it has no damage (on the contrary, it gives you proteins)?

Furthermore, more problems would arise as Objective Morality (the belief that Absolute Moral Good and Evil exists) cannot be grounded upon humans as it requires an all-knowing and infallible source (such as God). Otherwise, humans are not all-knowing nor infallible, hence they cannot claim Absolute Moral certainty nor perfection.

The only option left is Subjective Morality (or moral relativism) which all Non-Theists hold to, since there’s no other way of judging morality on Atheistic or Secular grounds. However, if there’s no Objective Truth in morality (what moral relativism argues for), then why would you argue something which you don’t believe to be Absolute Truth, moreover, you admit that that’s not Absolute True Morality to begin with. Therefore there’s no philosophical basis upon which Pro-Homosexual advocates can rely to defend their ethical reasoning.

 

 

 

Edited by Hassan-

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6 hours ago, andres said:

I was thinking about humans that for example are born with both fermale and male genitals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

In shia islam we have hadiths that dictates that in such cases as you mention where one person has both genitals, the one which is used for urinating is the one that the person will be defined by.

4 hours ago, andres said:

Gender operations are also made here in Sweden. But obviously not as many as in Iran. Not all wish to be operated, prefering to stay like nature created them. Labelling their gender "other" seems logical.

If a person is born with gender X, or as you call it "like nature created them" then that is their gender, its not complicated. You do not become something just because you say it.

Labelling their gender "other" does not seem logical, it seems delusional. 

Here is a swedish video on what I am saying, it has english subtitles as well:

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5 hours ago, andres said:

A chromosome error sometimes result in a human that actually is neither male or female. What shall they be called?

“Now in 1959 when the karyotype of Klinefelter [a male who is XXY] and Turner [a female who has one X] syndromes was discovered, it became clear that in humans it was the presence or the absence of the Y chromosome that's sex determining. Because all Klinefelters that have a Y are male, whereas Turners, who have no Y, are females. So it's not a dosage or the number of X's, it's really the presence or absence of the Y.”

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/q-a-mixed-sex-biology/

7 hours ago, andres said:

Buy there are. 5% or so are born with this sexual instinct.

Born with this instinct?

Studies say otherwise:

CF5390AA-5E1D-4EC5-BF52-27DB62A9213D.thumb.jpeg.c7bb2d2cce01e95e60f81cf357e958b4.jpeg

74C4857A-F0C5-4EC5-8EDC-0543741511FE.thumb.jpeg.92b09231378fd030e394b3926211e333.jpeg

Debunking the so called “scientific evidence” that homosexuality is firm by birth:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

The Conservative position is that your gender or sex is defined by your biological means (XX and XY chromosomes). We have seen that socially Marxist apologists tend to claim that biological means don’t define your gender. However, if biology doesn’t stop us from changing gender or sex, then what stops us from changing age, or even identifying as an animal, moreover a banana?

To suggest that a man can become a woman by means of genitalia mutilation is ridiculous (imagine if I chopped off my hand, that implies absolutely nothing). 

Edited by SheikhAlHabib'fan

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

In shia islam we have hadiths that dictates that in such cases as you mention where one person has both genitals, the one which is used for urinating is the one that the person will be defined by.

If a person is born with gender X, or as you call it "like nature created them" then that is their gender, its not complicated. You do not become something just because you say it.

 

 

A person with X chromosome instead of XX is a woman.  A person with Y instead of XY can not live. Thereare many different types of hermafrodites, the Hadiths you refer to are not up to date. If not "other", have you got a better suggestion.  Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex   

Where did you find the video? A gymnasium project?

  

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2 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

 

 

Does it really seem strange that homosexuals are 3% of the population, yet 55% of HIV carries, 82% of syphylis cases, 20% of HBV cases, 37% of Anal Cancer and 78% have a STD?

 

It is not strange. AIDS was un unknown virus that spread quickly because Gays did not know how to protect themselves from it.  Women homos were not affected, but blood donors were. People of all kind can avoid the horrors you mention. 

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1 hour ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Debunking the so called “scientific evidence” that homosexuality is firm by birth:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

 

 I am having a happy life with (1) wife and kids. I do not envy the homos their trooubblesome life. Even if I did I could never learn to enjoy sex with a man. I know this for very certain. Dont you have the same conviction?

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12 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

As you all know now, same-sex marriage has been legalized in Australia through public vote.

My siblings argue with me and have a stance that we should all vote "Yes" for gay marriage (not that it matters anymore) because why should we force our religion to other people. They say that if gay people don't believe in any religion, then who are we to take away their right by not letting them get married. 

For future reference, say that you got a letter posted to your house, to have your input on whether gay marriage should be legalized - What will your vote be? And why?

I voted no

what disturbs me more is now they want to force places of worship to marry them 

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