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Maki D Cabarete

Did Ahlulbayt a.s found the Nation of Islam?

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W.D. Fard Muhammad may have had a mysterious disappearance, but he is not the 12th Imam. He never claimed to be the Imam, and his teachings are contrary to that of the Ahl al-Bayt. Master Fard taught that God was black, the devil was white, that the Resurrection was just the mental resurrection of black people (and not a physical resurrection), that the Judgment would occur in this world, that the dead would not come back to life, etc. Overall, he had a naturalist theology, and was likely influenced by Ahmadi missionaries in the U.S at that time. He may not have even come from the Muslim world. Remember that Fard didn't just appear, he was living in Detroit and Chicago for 4 years, and was even arrested, held, exiled, etc.

The Supreme Wisdom consists of his teachings, you find very little Islam in these lessons: http://supremewisdom.webs.com/

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5 hours ago, Qa'im said:

W.D. Fard Muhammad may have had a mysterious disappearance, but he is not the 12th Imam. He never claimed to be the Imam, and his teachings are contrary to that of the Ahl al-Bayt. Master Fard taught that God was black, the devil was white, that the Resurrection was just the mental resurrection of black people (and not a physical resurrection), that the Judgment would occur in this world, that the dead would not come back to life, etc. Overall, he had a naturalist theology, and was likely influenced by Ahmadi missionaries in the U.S at that time. He may not have even come from the Muslim world. Remember that Fard didn't just appear, he was living in Detroit and Chicago for 4 years, and was even arrested, held, exiled, etc.

The Supreme Wisdom consists of his teachings, you find very little Islam in these lessons: http://supremewisdom.webs.com/

Salaam Alaikum 

Thank you for your input and the information you provided, it will be analyzed and taken into consideration in this discussion.

MDC

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10 hours ago, Maki D Cabarete said:

Under what conditions or special case would the Mahdi a.s. while in major ghaybah bring into existence The Lost Found Nation of Islam in the West?

Historical context of the transatlantic slave trad, the effects of its tyranny, oppression and genocide must be included in this discussion. Also, the special case must be made for the descendents African slaves of who many were Muslim who where forcibly made to lose the knowledge of themselves, their God and religion. Also and including the genocidal treatment of the aboriginal people of the whole the Western Hemisphere must be in this discussion.

MDC

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15 hours ago, Qa'im said:

and his teachings are contrary to that of the Ahl al-Bayt

Some context: W. F. Muhammad was not the 12th Imam a.s. because, he was born in 1877. His teachings was for a people, who at that time was called [EDIT], 1930 Detroit/Chicago and the rest of America, living under what was called "jim crow law." 

Edited by Hassan-
Removed bad word

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Reborn - I converted from Nation of Islam to Shia - Marquel Mohammed

Reborn - "The Nation of Islam taught me about my people" (convert or revert to Shia video)

Reborn - Christian to Rastafari to Muslim  (convert or revert to Shia video)

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1 hour ago, Maki D Cabarete said:

Some context: W. F. Muhammad was not the 12th Imam a.s. because, he was born in 1877. His teachings was for a people, who at that time was called [EDIT], 1930 Detroit/Chicago and the rest of America, living under what was called "jim crow law." 

Truth must be told, it's the only way for people today especially the new immigrant who didn't know what went on here in this wilderness called North America and the America's on a whole, between1492 to 1965. Please no edit for the words like Negroes and Jim Crow.

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1 hour ago, Maki D Cabarete said:

Some context: W. F. Muhammad was not the 12th Imam a.s. because, he was born in 1877. His teachings was for a people, who at that time was called [EDIT], 1930 Detroit/Chicago and the rest of America, living under what was called "jim crow law." 

For more on the history of the Nation, you can read a very valuable dissertation by Hatim Sahib from 1951. This was written before Malcolm had come into the NOI: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9d80/7b3851a3a98e58c22e3c7ad73136218199e2.pdf

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4 hours ago, Qa'im said:

For more on the history of the Nation, you can read a very valuable dissertation by Hatim Sahib from 1951. This was written before Malcolm had come into the NOI: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9d80/7b3851a3a98e58c22e3c7ad73136218199e2.pdf

Interesting look at the "Nation of Islam" and its natural progression and development.

Master and founder, W.F. Muhammad, developed one of the most successful movements for resistance and change against tyranny, oppression and injustice that plagued the African American and Indigenous people of North America for over 40 years under the leadership and teachings of his Massenger the Honorable Elijah Muhammad pbuh.

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1 hour ago, Maki D Cabarete said:
5 hours ago, Qa'im said:

 

Interesting look at the "Nation of Islam" and its natural progression and development.

Master and founder, W.F. Muhammad, developed one of the most successful movements for resistance and change against tyranny, oppression and injustice that plagued the African American and Indigenous people of North America for over 40 years under the leadership and teachings of his Massenger the Honorable Elijah Muhammad pbuh.

There are definitely a lot of commendable things in the Nation of Islam. Its structure, its social relevance, the FOI and MGT, its schools, even some of its ministers. But it's a bad idea to compromise religious principles to gain social or political relevance. The NOI peaked at around two million followers in 1975, but now, they'd be lucky to have about 60,000 members. The religion of Prophet Muhammad (s) however is a religion for all times and all places, and so it has the longevity to last millennia, and not just in Jim Crow America. It's not just about "resisting tyranny", it's about replacing it with truth.

It's impossible to know what the true intentions of Master Fard were. But we do know that what he taught clashes with the religion. No man is God, and any human being (regardless of colour) can be a devil. Life after death is real. The Sun is not the first thing ever created. The moon was not blown off of the Earth with TNT. No intelligent beings live on Mars. There is no 'Tribe of Shabazz'. And Elijah Muhammad is not the final messenger of Allah.

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6 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

There are definitely a lot of commendable things in the Nation of Islam. Its structure, its social relevance, the FOI and MGT, its schools, even some of its ministers. But it's a bad idea to compromise religious principles to gain social or political relevance. The NOI peaked at around two million followers in 1975, but now, they'd be lucky to have about 60,000 members. The religion of Prophet Muhammad (s) however is a religion for all times and all places, and so it has the longevity to last millennia, and not just in Jim Crow America. It's not just about "resisting tyranny", it's about replacing it with truth.

It's impossible to know what the true intentions of Master Fard were. But we do know that what he taught clashes with the religion. No man is God, and any human being (regardless of colour) can be a devil. Life after death is real. The Sun is not the first thing ever created. The moon was not blown off of the Earth with TNT. No intelligent beings live on Mars. There is no 'Tribe of Shabazz'. And Elijah Muhammad is not the final messenger of Allah.

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad pbuh was the Messenger of W. F. Muhammad and his teachings to the descendents of African slaves.

The Tribe of Shabazz descibe the greatness of the people ancient past.

The Moon is a symbol and a reminder, that some people can become so dangerously psychotic that, if they can't or don't get what they want, they will try to destroy everything, including themselves.

The Sun is a symbol for Freedom.

The Resurrection is Real.

Man = Being

Being = Existence

Existence = Reality

Reality = God

The intention of W. F. Muhammad a.s. was to warn his people, who were lost from their own for more then 400 years, to warn them that, the Day of destruction is near at ✋

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2 hours ago, Maki D Cabarete said:

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad pbuh was the Messenger of W. F. Muhammad and his teachings to the descendents of African slaves.

The Tribe of Shabazz descibe the greatness of the people ancient past.

The Moon is a symbol and a reminder, that some people can become so dangerously psychotic that, if they can't or don't get what they want, they will try to destroy everything, including themselves.

The Sun is a symbol for Freedom.

The Resurrection is Real.

Man = Being

Being = Existence

Existence = Reality

Reality = God

The intention of W. F. Muhammad a.s. was to warn his people, who were lost from their own for more then 400 years, to warn them that, the Day of destruction is near at ✋

Hi Every one can be a messenger but in Shia Islam view the messenger of divine message must be clean from any sin & has clear life from birth to death that is only applicable for 12 Imams (as) & the God (Allah) message is for all human kind not  particular people .

When Imam Mahdi(aj) will reappear all human kind equally will be in the highest point.

nowadays moon is considers as symbol of paganism also as sun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Shia_Muslims_flags

Resurrection in Shia Islam view:

Maʿād or Resurrection (Arabic: معاد) is one of the roots of faith in Islam and means the return of people after death into life on the Day of Judgment (qiyama). According to this belief, all of the people will be resurrected on the Day of Judgment and their actions will be judged in the presence of God and they will be requited.

Resurrection has a great importance in Islam and nearly one third of Qur'an is about the resurrection and subjects related to it.

Believing in the resurrection has a great effect in the manner of life and causes people to do more good and avoid evil.

Resurrection could be imagined in two ways: spiritual resurrection, bodily resurrection.

The most important objections proposed about the subject is about the rational possibility of resurrection; some of which are: the objection of the eater and the eaten, the objection of returning the extinct, and the objection about the knowledge and the power of God.

Qur'an mentions some instances of resurrection in order to prove the possibility of resurrection. Proving the rational possibility of resurrection is possible using rational reasons, like: the reason of the creation (fitra), the reason of wisdom, the reason of justice, 

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Resurrection

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Bodily_Resurrection

http://shiastudies.org/article/al-ma-ad-resurrection

https://www.al-islam.org/day-of-judgement-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/part-3-some-signs-day-resurrection

https://www.al-islam.org/resurrection-maad-quran-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini/gathering-humans-hashr

https://www.al-islam.org/resurrection-maad-quran-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi

Raj'at

The intention of W. F. Muhammad a.s. was to warn his people, who were lost from their own for more then 400 years, to warn them that, the Day of destruction is near at

Raj'at speech

Rajʿa (Arabic: الرَّجعَة), is the belief that a group of people who have died will return to the Earth shortly after the reappearance of the twelfth Shi'a Imam, al-Mahdi (a). It is a belief particular to the Shi'as. The Holy Qur'an has mentioned the story of some people who have been resurrected after death. Based on some hadiths, a number of perfect believers as well as a number of complete infidels will return to this world. The return of Imam Ali (a) and Imam al-Husayn (a) has been especially emphasized. Since there are mutawatir hadiths about raj'a, it is a certain fact. However, details about raj'a are not as certain.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Raj'a

Question 10: What is raj‘ah {“return”} and why do you believe in it?

Reply: In Arabic, raj‘ah literally means “return” but it is used to mean “the return of a group of people after death and prior to the Day of Resurrection”. This truth is contradictory to neither reason nor the logic of revelation.

From the viewpoint of Islam and other divine creeds, the essence of man consists in his absolute soul, which is also described as the “self” {nafs}, and after the extinction of the body it continues to exist forever.

On the other hand, God, the Exalted, from the viewpoint of the Qur’an, is Omnipotent whose power nothing can hinder or limit.

This short introduction makes clear that raj‘ah, from the viewpoint of reason, is not impossible; for, we will find through reflection that the revival of this group of people is far easier than God’s first creation of them.

https://www.al-islam.org/180-questions-about-islam-vol-2-various-issues-makarim-shirazi/10-what-rajat-return-its-occurrence

Muḥammad b. al-Ḥasan al-'Askarī (Arabic: محمد بن الحسن العسکری) (born in 255/869), also known as Imam al-Mahdi (a) ( إمام المهدی), is the twelfth Imam in Twelver Shi'ism. He is the

promised savior, who will rise one day and fill the earth with peace and justice. Imam al-Mahdi (a) has been in occultation from the early years of his life. Shi'as regard him as the Imam of the present age. Among his well-known titles are Imam al-Zaman (the Imam of the time) and Wali l-'Asr (the guardian of the age).e

Imam al-Mahdi (a) became the Imam after the demise of his father Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari (a) in the year 260/874, when he was five. From that time until the year 329/940, he was in contact with his followers through his Four Deputies. After that, his Major Occultation started, in which period the direct guidance and leadership of the Shi'a community rests with religious scholars.

There are many hadiths transmitted from the Imams (a) about Imam al-Mahdi (a), his life, his Occultation, and his government, and many collections of such hadiths have been written. In addition to hadith collections, many works have been published about Imam al-Mahdi (a).

Every year, on Sha'ban 15, Shi'as celebrate the Imam's birth, marking one of the greatest Shi'i festivals.

The possibility of meeting the Imam (a) during his Major Occultation, when and how he reappears, and the incidents related to his reappearance are some of the popular discussions among Shi'as.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Imam_Muhammad_b._al-Hasan_al-Mahdi_(a)

 

Man = Being

Being = Existence

Existence = Reality

Reality = God

It is same as Humanism Doctrine

Defining Humanity

A definition of humanity seems easy to think of yet difficult to propose, and there have been disputes about it among different schools of thought. Most pioneers in social thought and leaders of movements claim that the main feature of their activities is their humanism and humanitarian efforts. To avoid having misconceptions about humanity or sinking in the whirlpool of literal interpretations and logical disputes, we need to first focus on the reality of the human being and his different aspects, and then discuss the derived infinitive word form humanity, its meaning, virtues, and functions.

https://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol11-n4-2011/islam-humanity-and-human-values-sayyid-musa-sadr/islam-humanity-and

 

The Shia in brief

The talks about the Shia in the last years, especially after the victory of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, have been so widespread. The western information and its media spread everywhere in the world, focused on the Iranian Shia, describing them as ‘the fool of Allah’ one time and ‘terrorists’ another time.

This included the Lebanese Shia as well after they had threatened the American and western interests in Beirut. They were described as ‘excessive and extreme’. Not long after this, these descriptions were ascribed to all the Shia in the world. In fact, they included the Islamic movements everywhere in the world even if they were Sunni movements having nothing to do with the Shia.

https://www.al-islam.org/all-solutions-are-with-prophet-s-progeny-muhammad-al-tijani/shia-brief

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi Every one can be a messenger but in Shia Islam view the messenger of divine message must be clean from any sin & has clear life from birth to death that is only applicable for 12 Imams (as) & the God (Allah) message is for all human kind not  particular people .

When Imam Mahdi(aj) will reappear all human kind equally will be in the highest point.

nowadays moon is considers as symbol of paganism also as sun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Shia_Muslims_flags

Resurrection in Shia Islam view:

Maʿād or Resurrection (Arabic: معاد) is one of the roots of faith in Islam and means the return of people after death into life on the Day of Judgment (qiyama). According to this belief, all of the people will be resurrected on the Day of Judgment and their actions will be judged in the presence of God and they will be requited.

Resurrection has a great importance in Islam and nearly one third of Qur'an is about the resurrection and subjects related to it.

Believing in the resurrection has a great effect in the manner of life and causes people to do more good and avoid evil.

Resurrection could be imagined in two ways: spiritual resurrection, bodily resurrection.

The most important objections proposed about the subject is about the rational possibility of resurrection; some of which are: the objection of the eater and the eaten, the objection of returning the extinct, and the objection about the knowledge and the power of God.

Qur'an mentions some instances of resurrection in order to prove the possibility of resurrection. Proving the rational possibility of resurrection is possible using rational reasons, like: the reason of the creation (fitra), the reason of wisdom, the reason of justice, 

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Resurrection

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Bodily_Resurrection

http://shiastudies.org/article/al-ma-ad-resurrection

https://www.al-islam.org/day-of-judgement-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/part-3-some-signs-day-resurrection

https://www.al-islam.org/resurrection-maad-quran-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini/gathering-humans-hashr

https://www.al-islam.org/resurrection-maad-quran-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi

Raj'at

The intention of W. F. Muhammad a.s. was to warn his people, who were lost from their own for more then 400 years, to warn them that, the Day of destruction is near at

Raj'at speech

Rajʿa (Arabic: الرَّجعَة), is the belief that a group of people who have died will return to the Earth shortly after the reappearance of the twelfth Shi'a Imam, al-Mahdi (a). It is a belief particular to the Shi'as. The Holy Qur'an has mentioned the story of some people who have been resurrected after death. Based on some hadiths, a number of perfect believers as well as a number of complete infidels will return to this world. The return of Imam Ali (a) and Imam al-Husayn (a) has been especially emphasized. Since there are mutawatir hadiths about raj'a, it is a certain fact. However, details about raj'a are not as certain.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Raj'a

Question 10: What is raj‘ah {“return”} and why do you believe in it?

Reply: In Arabic, raj‘ah literally means “return” but it is used to mean “the return of a group of people after death and prior to the Day of Resurrection”. This truth is contradictory to neither reason nor the logic of revelation.

From the viewpoint of Islam and other divine creeds, the essence of man consists in his absolute soul, which is also described as the “self” {nafs}, and after the extinction of the body it continues to exist forever.

On the other hand, God, the Exalted, from the viewpoint of the Qur’an, is Omnipotent whose power nothing can hinder or limit.

This short introduction makes clear that raj‘ah, from the viewpoint of reason, is not impossible; for, we will find through reflection that the revival of this group of people is far easier than God’s first creation of them.

https://www.al-islam.org/180-questions-about-islam-vol-2-various-issues-makarim-shirazi/10-what-rajat-return-its-occurrence

Muḥammad b. al-Ḥasan al-'Askarī (Arabic: محمد بن الحسن العسکری) (born in 255/869), also known as Imam al-Mahdi (a) ( إمام المهدی), is the twelfth Imam in Twelver Shi'ism. He is the

promised savior, who will rise one day and fill the earth with peace and justice. Imam al-Mahdi (a) has been in occultation from the early years of his life. Shi'as regard him as the Imam of the present age. Among his well-known titles are Imam al-Zaman (the Imam of the time) and Wali l-'Asr (the guardian of the age).e

Imam al-Mahdi (a) became the Imam after the demise of his father Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari (a) in the year 260/874, when he was five. From that time until the year 329/940, he was in contact with his followers through his Four Deputies. After that, his Major Occultation started, in which period the direct guidance and leadership of the Shi'a community rests with religious scholars.

There are many hadiths transmitted from the Imams (a) about Imam al-Mahdi (a), his life, his Occultation, and his government, and many collections of such hadiths have been written. In addition to hadith collections, many works have been published about Imam al-Mahdi (a).

Every year, on Sha'ban 15, Shi'as celebrate the Imam's birth, marking one of the greatest Shi'i festivals.

The possibility of meeting the Imam (a) during his Major Occultation, when and how he reappears, and the incidents related to his reappearance are some of the popular discussions among Shi'as.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Imam_Muhammad_b._al-Hasan_al-Mahdi_(a)

 

Man = Being

Being = Existence

Existence = Reality

Reality = God

It is same as Humanism Doctrine

Defining Humanity

A definition of humanity seems easy to think of yet difficult to propose, and there have been disputes about it among different schools of thought. Most pioneers in social thought and leaders of movements claim that the main feature of their activities is their humanism and humanitarian efforts. To avoid having misconceptions about humanity or sinking in the whirlpool of literal interpretations and logical disputes, we need to first focus on the reality of the human being and his different aspects, and then discuss the derived infinitive word form humanity, its meaning, virtues, and functions.

https://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol11-n4-2011/islam-humanity-and-human-values-sayyid-musa-sadr/islam-humanity-and

 

The Shia in brief

The talks about the Shia in the last years, especially after the victory of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, have been so widespread. The western information and its media spread everywhere in the world, focused on the Iranian Shia, describing them as ‘the fool of Allah’ one time and ‘terrorists’ another time.

This included the Lebanese Shia as well after they had threatened the American and western interests in Beirut. They were described as ‘excessive and extreme’. Not long after this, these descriptions were ascribed to all the Shia in the world. In fact, they included the Islamic movements everywhere in the world even if they were Sunni movements having nothing to do with the Shia.

https://www.al-islam.org/all-solutions-are-with-prophet-s-progeny-muhammad-al-tijani/shia-brief

 

Was analyzing and making some comparisons to information that you and the other brother for this site gave.

That about the "hand" you almost thrown me off with that but I think I know what happened. When I used the phrase "near at ✋" meaning near enough for to sense something, you took it to maybe mean something else.

It was not W. F. Muhammad a.s. mission to convert the decedents of African slaves to Sunni or Shia, that would be something for them to decide. His mission was to warn and to restore his people back into the knowledge of their own (Islam).

They, the followers of W. F. Muhammad was given all they needed to get started on their way. They were told to hurry too because, the Day of Judgment was being delayed for their sake, for the 379 years of captivity and the time was running out.

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25 minutes ago, Maki D Cabarete said:

They, the followers of W. F. Muhammad was given all they needed to get started on their way. They were told to hurry too because, the Day of Judgment was being delayed for their sake, for the 379 years of captivity and the time was running out.

I'm assuming you're referring to Genesis 15:13. Between 1555 (John Hawkins) and 2018, there are 463 years. So shouldn't that judgment have come a long time ago (1955)? Soon it'll be 500 years of captivity. This is why Shia Muslims do not give any timing to Judgment Day or the return of the Mahdi.

Elijah Muhammad said that there should be a grace period of 60-70 years, but even then, that grace period would've ended sometime between 1994 and 2004.

We also know now that there is no civilization on Mars, unlike what the Messenger taught at the Theology of Time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQAkHGs9Gh0

I know that you want to cling onto the idea that God has come to deliver black people from bondage. And indeed, the NOI may have been part of God's plan to slowly introduce Islam to African Americans. But the specific claims of W.D. Fard and Elijah Muhammad cannot be true.

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8 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

I'm assuming you're referring to Genesis 15:13. Between 1555 (John Hawkins) and 2018, there are 463 years. So shouldn't that judgment have come a long time ago (1955)? Soon it'll be 500 years of captivity. This is why Shia Muslims do not give any timing to Judgment Day or the return of the Mahdi.

Elijah Muhammad said that there should be a grace period of 60-70 years, but even then, that grace period would've ended sometime between 1994 and 2004.

We also know now that there is no civilization on Mars, unlike what the Messenger taught at the Theology of Time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQAkHGs9Gh0

I know that you want to cling onto the idea that God has come to deliver black people from bondage. And indeed, the NOI may have been part of God's plan to slowly introduce Islam to African Americans. But the specific claims of W.D. Fard and Elijah Muhammad cannot be true.

I think it was you who put up a link that have much of what the Nation of Islam is about, thank you for that. Something called English lesson C1, it gives a presentation of W. F. Muhammad a.s., something in there "Why didn't their own people come and get them? Because their own people did not know that they were here"

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16 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

The thing I have the most trouble with is them claiming that all white people are devils created by some black scientist. 

Not everyone we call human are human but are beast. The black scientist, Mr Yacub is responsible for this beast in the caucasian but some of them have Islam now and know better now to control their evil self. Yacub is the same as the Satan or the Ibles. 

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1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

I'm assuming you're referring to Genesis 15:13. Between 1555 (John Hawkins) and 2018, there are 463 years. So shouldn't that judgment have come a long time ago (1955)? Soon it'll be 500 years of captivity. This is why Shia Muslims do not give any timing to Judgment Day or the return of the Mahdi.

Elijah Muhammad said that there should be a grace period of 60-70 years, but even then, that grace period would've ended sometime between 1994 and 2004.

We also know now that there is no civilization on Mars, unlike what the Messenger taught at the Theology of Time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQAkHGs9Gh0

I know that you want to cling onto the idea that God has come to deliver black people from bondage. And indeed, the NOI may have been part of God's plan to slowly introduce Islam to African Americans. But the specific claims of W.D. Fard and Elijah Muhammad cannot be true.

The Judgment was to start in 1914 but it was put off for somewhere between 1380 and 1400 H. Actually in 1492 the transatlantic slave trade began with Columbus but in 1555 a certain people went missing and these are the people who W. F. Muhammad a.s. came to save from the coming destruction.

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1 hour ago, Maki D Cabarete said:

Not everyone we call human are human but are beast. The black scientist, Mr Yacub is responsible for this beast in the caucasian but some of them have Islam now and know better now to control their evil self. Yacub is the same as the Satan or the Ibles. 

That's called racial superiority. Sounds like reverse white superiority to be honest, just applying what whites said about black people the other way around.

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33 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

That's called racial superiority. Sounds like reverse white superiority to be honest, just applying what whites said about black people the other way around.

Did not the devil think it was better than man because what man was made of and what did the Lord say to that devil?

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3 hours ago, Qa'im said:

I'm assuming you're referring to Genesis 15:13. Between 1555 (John Hawkins) and 2018, there are 463 years. So shouldn't that judgment have come a long time ago (1955)? Soon it'll be 500 years of captivity. This is why Shia Muslims do not give any timing to Judgment Day or the return of the Mahdi.

Elijah Muhammad said that there should be a grace period of 60-70 years, but even then, that grace period would've ended sometime between 1994 and 2004.

We also know now that there is no civilization on Mars, unlike what the Messenger taught at the Theology of Time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQAkHGs9Gh0

I know that you want to cling onto the idea that God has come to deliver black people from bondage. And indeed, the NOI may have been part of God's plan to slowly introduce Islam to African Americans. But the specific claims of W.D. Fard and Elijah Muhammad cannot be true.

Did you ever think today, you would be hearing in the streets of the Muslim world, death to who? You tell me please and why would the Muslim world be saying this now and not 60 or 70 years ago!

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2 minutes ago, Maki D Cabarete said:

Please it's not about skin color. Have you ever hear of the saying, "the devil will come disguised as an angel of light"

It's about their Actions not their skin Color. In the old days people didn't call them the white man, people called them the cave man because they act like a beast towards the descendents of African slaves, it was them who reference themselves as the white man.

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