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2 hours ago, Sisterfatima1 said:

Why is that an attraction for you I find it interesting is it because it makes the face abit more rounder ect

Would you prefer a healthy guy who is pious and is 5 at best, or a hot dude with a [tough] personality? Be honest.

Edited by Hameedeh
Inappropriate language was removed.

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2 hours ago, Sisterfatima1 said:

Why is that an attraction for you I find it interesting is it because it makes the face abit more rounder ect

Well for me, it is a lot more than just a rounder face, and it might not appropriate for SC to go in further detail.

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29 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Well for me, it is a lot more than just a rounder face, and it might not appropriate for SC to go in further detail.

I got told in some Arabic poetry some praise bigger women

if I was a man I wouldn’t go for that but each to their own opinion 

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7 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Generally good post, i've omitted some parts to just focus on this so i can give some of my views as well:

I agree with not having this whole Alpha-Beta labelling. This is the whole idea: The more we get constrained in labels we become people we aren't; we seek approval rather than personal satisfaction.  If i lift, if i do all those things i have said, i don't do it for women, i don't do it for labels, i don't do it for others. I do it because it's the representation of who i am on the inside, manifested on the outside. 

Thank you, and you had a good post as well. 

And just to extend on the Alpha-Beta male labeling—I find that the “manosphere” is more guilty of producing that rigidity and toxic environment by hating on both men and woman. And therefore, they tend to lose focus on why they ought to get fit. They follow the simplistic mantra of, “if you lift, more girls will be attracted to you.” While promoting the a-hole “game” that will naturally repel woman (“game” doesnt even work. How many guys have approached girls with the same dumb pick-up lines in various settings? If “game” is supposed to get a guy someone, then the route to that is completely wrong.)

 So these men are not only doing it for the wrong reasons, but they are more likely to become angry at woman for not fawning over them, mistaking a-hole behavior for “alpha dominance” (or to whatever effect.) and the mentality is extremely damaging to the connection and bonding of men and woman.  

7 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

, let me not lie. It's more of a mental struggle. With cheap food, abundance and the like , many people are heading towards being overweight, and even obese. These days even a normal weight woman gets shamed. However i stand by what i had said, for a guy to get a good body, it takes an incredible amount of effort.

To gain 2lbs of muscle, it takes a month, and that is only a new beginner working out perfectly, with good genetics and great nutrition. It is a serious long-term struggle, and the effort you need to put in to work out for or five times a week, to even get to a stage where you look like you lift [i.e notable progress] takes serious heavy weights, struggle, eating when you don't even want to eat, scientifically measuring calories. It's like an entire life-style and part time job. I still believe for a guy to get a good body, it takes work. Women aren't expected to gain what isn't there, they are just expected to lose what is excess on what is. No doubt that can be a challenge as well.

Normal weight woman do get shamed. I think people who do so are just not happy with their bodies, so those people who shame normal weight woman are more likely to make themselves feel better by labeling a normal weight woman as vain or self-centered, or somehow that being thin is lacking in character (someone actually told me, when we were talking about bodies in general, “when do people work on their kindness, or their temper? Never.” And “I hate people who view being skinny as the ultimate thing.”)

in actuality, many overweight people, more among woman than men, are more likely to have poor coping skills and emotional and anger issues and are more likely to use food as a friend or as a void that is lacking in their lives. 

I guess in terms of a fit body, men are more critical of themselves than woman are of men. And I guess men, what they think of as a “good body” is in terms of visible muscle mass and for woman, the focus is in terms of thinness (while men will focus on the shape of a woman more than anything, as well as proportion.)

You are completely right to believe that men need to put in lots of effort. I guess woman are more forgiving of men’s bodies in that respect, like how men don’t notice all the tiny lumps that woman notice in themselves. 

No doubt the fit male body takes lots of effort, and for both men and woman, counting calories is what helps reach or maintain specific goals. The trouble happens when people stop counting, and slowly increase their portions. They say that only 5% of people maintain their desired weight after weight loss, so when the odds are stacked against you from mostly environmental factors, can it really be maintained? 

Some people will argue that society and the media is responsible for representing images of a specific ideal, (fit men and thin woman.) however, not realizing that up until recently, people have been relatively trim and fit. Even a psychology professor of mine joined the politically correct “genetics” bandwagon as to why people have gained so much weight in the span of 40 years. People’s genetics cannot change so drastically in so little time, so in order for people to stop feeling bad about themselves, the genetics card is used. It’s the same thing in the world of dentistry with regards to malocclusions.

All people with open bites and overbites have tongue thrust issues and mouth breathing (more common in underbites and overbites.) which lead to tired eyes, flat cheekbones, tmj problems etc. if the oral posture is dealt with (tongue to the roof of the mouth, breathe through your nose, mouth shut.), these problems will cease to exist. It’s the lack of personal responsibility that people want to take for themselves. Saying that it’s someone’s fault doesn’t make that person want to change. 

You’re right that woman are expected to lose weight when there is extra fat, not so much gain muscle. It’s also harder for woman to put on muscle as woman are more designed to put on fat for childbearing preparation. 

7 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

do have natural arm muscle, but the reality is, lifting weights develops the chest, shoulders, back, arms much further, legs , and the like. When someone lifts, they might go from an average body to looking strong, solid, and being significantly stronger physically. Scientifically, that makes ones wife feel much more 'protected' by her husband. Once more, anyone who tries to lift to get attention or for a SO is doing it for the wrong reasons. I also do agree, any woman who makes an excuse about a guys muscles is superficial. However if a guy already has them it can enhance the marriage, and sadly, even make her treat him better.

You're right about the heartbreak part. People start to realise that seeking superficial things over the more important things won't work well long term. However, some people have been cheated on, torn to pieces, over superficial reasons and vowed never to let that be a factor in the future. They hold their destinies in their hands, and don't allow themselves to suffer any further humiliatio

That’s true that lifting weights develops the chest muscles as well as the shoulders and back and etc. I guess my point was, if I didn’t clarify, that most woman are happy with what they generally see. If a woman is serious about a guy, loves him to pieces, I doubt she will reject him solely on the fact lack of chest development as an example. 

I’m not sure if scientifically that woman will feel protected by a fit husband. While I do see the merit in that statement, I tend to believe that feelings as being protected is more of a mental thing than physical. My theory is that since woman don’t need as much physical protection as much as emotional protection from a man, the physical manifestation of protection and safety is less of a desire for woman than it is for men to prove themselves in that regard. 

I’m not also sure if a man’s physique will help him be better treated by his wife. I think this just depends on various factors. Let’s say a man refuses to take care of himself and eats his way to 400 pounds, and a wife becomes passive-aggressive because of his weight. The message of, “you don’t care about my feelings” or the opposite ties into how a woman treats a man. If a woman feels like her man has checked-out emotionally or mentally, she will act accordingly or worse in other ways. 

I forgot to add about heartbreak that some people never learn through their bad experiences. How many girls do you know of who have been in terrible relationships, only to search desperately for “a good, family oriented man” at 30 because her biological clock is ticking? Much of this mentality of going in and out of bad relationships is on the societal premise that one shouldn’t get “tied down” (this could be marriage or any serious relationship in general.) and that one must “live it up” because if not otherwise, youth is wasted. So as people get into bad relationship after bad relationship, the more temporarily or permanently cynical they become of ever finding a good spouse. So they become hyper focused on having kids before 40 while at 35 to avoid that empty feeling on true connection with their spouse. At that point, if someone is childless, most people don’t care about finding a healthy spouse—they just want someone who values procreation and commitment as much as they do.

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Thank you, and you had a good post as well. 

And just to extend on the Alpha-Beta male labeling—I find that the “manosphere” is more guilty of producing that rigidity and toxic environment by hating on both men and woman. And therefore, they tend to lose focus on why they ought to get fit. They follow the simplistic mantra of, “if you lift, more girls will be attracted to you.” While promoting the a-hole “game” that will naturally repel woman (“game” doesnt even work. How many guys have approached girls with the same dumb pick-up lines in various settings? If “game” is supposed to get a guy someone, then the route to that is completely wrong.)

 So these men are not only doing it for the wrong reasons, but they are more likely to become angry at woman for not fawning over them, mistaking a-hole behavior for “alpha dominance” (or to whatever effect.) and the mentality is extremely damaging to the connection and bonding of men and woman.  ut on muscle as woman are more designed to put on fat for childbearing preparation. 

It's 3am, so i hope i'm going to make sense. I know what sort of culture you are talking about. Men are obsessed with this Alpha-male and Beta-male rubbish.  The whole pick-up games, Alpha-Male and the rest of the gimmicks we see are nonsense with only some grain of truth that is mixed in with so much rubbish it doesn't even matter. It might work with Gorrillas , but i'm not sure how well that is going to work with women.

This is something i am trying to emphasise with my posts. It isn't about acting a certain way to get people to want you. The whole idea is, you become the man you know you are [or the woman you know you are]. You know what values you represent inside, and you work to manifest them outside, in behaviour, dress, physique and the rest of it. Instead of trying to be 'Alpha' what men should do is try to work so much on themselves, they are independent, strong minded, secure, don't rely on women to make them happy, and truly independent human beings with goals and a sense of direction.  The whole point is instilling a foundation of solid qualities and then just being yourself. Putting on acts and playing games is a total waste of everyones time.  Usually, you find men glorifying these methods on testosterone fuelled weight-lifting websites where it's full of complete rubbish. 

Men trying to get the attention of women in the sense of being fawned over is just so wrong. If a man decides to get to 180Lbs, shredded, good clothes, good scent, good beard, and confidence, he should be doing that so he feels better in himself, he carries out life with confidence, and he manifests his external image based on who he is. Those characteristics manifest his vision, and his struggle. More on this a little later on.

1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

 Normal weight woman do get shamed. I think people who do so are just not happy with their bodies, so those people who shame normal weight woman are more likely to make themselves feel better by labeling a normal weight woman as vain or self-centered, or somehow that being thin is lacking in character (someone actually told me, when we were talking about bodies in general, “when do people work on their kindness, or their temper? Never.” And “I hate people who view being skinny as the ultimate thing.”)

in actuality, many overweight people, more among woman than men, are more likely to have poor coping skills and emotional and anger issues and are more likely to use food as a friend or as a void that is lacking in their lives. 

I guess in terms of a fit body, men are more critical of themselves than woman are of men. And I guess men, what they think of as a “good body” is in terms of visible muscle mass and for woman, the focus is in terms of thinness (while men will focus on the shape of a woman more than anything, as well as proportion.)

Yes, jealousy plays a part in shaming normal-weight woman, but some people shame them [or they shame themselves] for not being even thinner. It is sickening what some industries these days demands as a normal woman i.e someone pretty much with a BMI of 15. I know there has been backlash over this, but it is sickening and so many women are left insecure. Even if we go into the healthy range, many women feel insecure still. The reality is, what men generally want is not reflected in what the media will show and you are correct in what you said about shape and proportion. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. If there is someone overweight , it wouldn't be an immediate cause for me to judge, given that women and men tend to put on weight after having children, raising them, and growing into middle age, or perhaps having gone through difficult periods in their life. However, for a  young man looking for a potential suitor, if someone is overweight, it can indicate everything you've just said. I was basically trying to say what you've said but my thoughts tend to be muddled and all over the place when discussing these sorts of issues that sometimes wander into the abstract. It isn't just about the weight and exterior image per say - which matters nonetheless. Rather it is also what that exterior represents in the character of a person.

1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You are completely right to believe that men need to put in lots of effort. I guess woman are more forgiving of men’s bodies in that respect, like how men don’t notice all the tiny lumps that woman notice in themselves. 

No doubt the fit male body takes lots of effort, and for both men and woman, counting calories is what helps reach or maintain specific goals. The trouble happens when people stop counting, and slowly increase their portions. They say that only 5% of people maintain their desired weight after weight loss, so when the odds are stacked against you from mostly environmental factors, can it really be maintained? 

Some people will argue that society and the media is responsible for representing images of a specific ideal, (fit men and thin woman.) however, not realizing that up until recently, people have been relatively trim and fit. Even a psychology professor of mine joined the politically correct “genetics” bandwagon as to why people have gained so much weight in the span of 40 years. People’s genetics cannot change so drastically in so little time, so in order for people to stop feeling bad about themselves, the genetics card is used. It’s the same thing in the world of dentistry with regards to malocclusions.

You know, from my research men end to be quite easily pleased. There doesn't seem to really be any real emphasis other than being a normal weight and other things you mentioned which would be better i don't elaborate on. I also do agree that keeping weight off isn't easy, for reasons you've mentioned.  In terms of being overweight, it's nature and nurture, and nurture has a far, far greater role, so no-one should be making excuses. This excludes those with genuine genetic conditions which effect many other aspects of their health, but these are very rare genetic conditions. I generally wouldn't look at someone who is overweight and shame them, but i guess what we are doing here is discussing those people who wish to try to find potential suitors/husbands/wives and so need to make that effort.   Whoever loses a lot of weight and keeps it like that has good self-control and it's a commendable feat, no doubt.

 However i'm going to insist that for a guy, being skinny is the equivalent of a lady being overweight. The reality is, a lot of guys are skinny, some more than others. Women often tolerated that on a guy, or tolerate an average body type, or even 'dadbod', because Allah hasn't given men natural shape and definition that is easily acquirable - they have to lift, more often than not to get that distinctive shape.  

If a man doesn't have a great body , it won't kill a relationship or damage it much at all. However, if he does have a great body, it has the power to enhance a relationship notably. A good woman would never leave a man or not love him over something like if he doesn't lift so long as he is in neither extreme, however, i sincerely believe if he did lift - though not to crazy levels- it would help a lot.

1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

All people with open bites and overbites have tongue thrust issues and mouth breathing (more common in underbites and overbites.) which lead to tired eyes, flat cheekbones, tmj problems etc. if the oral posture is dealt with (tongue to the roof of the mouth, breathe through your nose, mouth shut.), these problems will cease to exist. It’s the lack of personal responsibility that people want to take for themselves. Saying that it’s someone’s fault doesn’t make that person want to change. 

You’re right that woman are expected to lose weight when there is extra fat, not so much gain muscle. It’s also harder for woman to put on muscle as woman are more designed to put on fat for childbearing preparation. 

That’s true that lifting weights develops the chest muscles as well as the shoulders and back and etc. I guess my point was, if I didn’t clarify, that most woman are happy with what they generally see. If a woman is serious about a guy, loves him to pieces, I doubt she will reject him solely on the fact lack of chest development as an example. 

I’m not sure if scientifically that woman will feel protected by a fit husband. While I do see the merit in that statement, I tend to believe that feelings as being protected is more of a mental thing than physical. My theory is that since woman don’t need as much physical protection as much as emotional protection from a man, the physical manifestation of protection and safety is less of a desire for woman than it is for men to prove themselves in that regard. 

I’m not also sure if a man’s physique will help him be better treated by his wife. I think this just depends on various factors. Let’s say a man refuses to take care of himself and eats his way to 400 pounds, and a wife becomes passive-aggressive because of his weight. The message of, “you don’t care about my feelings” or the opposite ties into how a woman treats a man. If a woman feels like her man has checked-out emotionally or mentally, she will act accordingly or worse in other ways. 

That's quite interesting, i had read about this. The way you place your tongue in your mouth influences your cheekbones and how your face looks, and mouth breathing can seriously harm your looks.  I'm not sure if this helped me, but when i was 18 i stopped the mouth breathing, adjusted my tongue posture, and did everything you've said and i had some notable changes, and felt better. I think things like this should be done by everyone. I know we are all Muslims, our goal is the Akhirah, however we should also know God made this world under certain laws. Some features are desirable and attainable somewhat , and such as you have mentioned can be improved to an extent, and if someone has that knowledge they should do so. No-one should be mouth breathing unless they have a condition which means they can't do other than that, or for one or another reason.

The drive to gain muscle isn't something that tends to be put on women, generally it's just being a healthy weight and everything else takes care of itself. However you're right , most women won't care so much so long as he has an average build. However i think in an already stable marriage it can enhance physical attraction.

Of course there is no doubt a woman feeling secure, safe, and protected is encompassed by many factors. You've mentioned arguably more important ones than having a strong build / muscles. However i think though it plays a smaller role than factors you have mentioned, it definitely does play a role in making a woman feel protected. However i will accept what you have said are perhaps more important - the mental aspect. If a woman feels secure and safe, that is powerful. Some would argue things like financial security, but that doesn't mean the guy has to be rich, but just the fact he works hard and tries to provide some sort of normality on a regular basis. Women do tend to base things more on emotion, rather than the pure visual, and they are more complex in a sense.  As a woman you probably know more than i do about this and so i've noted down your points to reflect on.  

1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I forgot to add about heartbreak that some people never learn through their bad experiences. How many girls do you know of who have been in terrible relationships, only to search desperately for “a good, family oriented man” at 30 because her biological clock is ticking? Much of this mentality of going in and out of bad relationships is on the societal premise that one shouldn’t get “tied down” (this could be marriage or any serious relationship in general.) and that one must “live it up” because if not otherwise, youth is wasted. So as people get into bad relationship after bad relationship, the more temporarily or permanently cynical they become of ever finding a good spouse. So they become hyper focused on having kids before 40 while at 35 to avoid that empty feeling on true connection with their spouse. At that point, if someone is childless, most people don’t care about finding a healthy spouse—they just want someone who values procreation and commitment as much as they do.

Lol, not any personally but you're very right - i've heard of many women like that. The idea is live it up in your young days, and settle in your old, which is nonsense. The idea people 'miss out' by not going wild in their youth is the reason for so much mishap we find in the structure of families where people have forgotten what commitment even is. I have to confess it's getting late and you've packed in some great points in this paragraph that is going to require me to be more alert before i can address it, inshAllah which i will do when i get time tommorow inshAllah.

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On 1/11/2018 at 2:45 PM, Wared said:

The fact that a woman will end up being alone when the man is at work and the kids are in school would be sad,

Oh my goodness, being alone, even if just for a short while each day, sounds so wonderful. And so unattainable. 

I don't know why people are arguing here. If looks matter to you, they matter. If they don't, they don't. Just be honest about it (including honest with yourself) and let others live their own lives. 

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8 minutes ago, notme said:

Oh my goodness, being alone, even if just for a short while each day, sounds so wonderful. And so unattainable. 

I don't know why people are arguing here. If looks matter to you, they matter. If they don't, they don't. Just be honest about it (including honest with yourself) and let others live their own lives. 

You're right about that. However i don't like any brother or sister coming out of this thread thinking they are born with a set of cards and there's nothing they can do. I want people to believe in themselves and work on themselves for themselves. With so many people saying looks matter, many brothers/sisters can fall into insecurity. 

Also: I concur with that. Silence is so sweet.

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9 hours ago, notme said:

Oh my goodness, being alone, even if just for a short while each day, sounds so wonderful. And so unattainable. 

I don't know why people are arguing here. If looks matter to you, they matter. If they don't, they don't. Just be honest about it (including honest with yourself) and let others live their own lives. 

Are you really lonely? You have Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, and the fact that you have a family? And you complain? PEOPLE OUT THERE WISH THEY HAD SOME BREAD ON THE TABLE.

ARE YOU FOR REAL?

The only reason I would understand that she complains is if she get abused and forced to do something she doesn't want, and cries every time she cooks a meal, or that she is forced to stay home at work...That is a different story.

And I already said, looks matters to me, but I want to change that.

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Just my own personal bias: if people are too pretty, too handsome, too fashionable, appear to spend a lot of time on their appearance, I assume they are vain at best, and probably shallow. If a man is too well styled and dressed, I'm going to make assumptions about his gender preference.

On the other hand, if someone looks unkempt or smells bad, I'm going to assume they lack self esteem and self respect. 

So yes, looks matter, but only in the extremes. 

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My last post:

My sole purpose of coming here was to make it clear:

1. To both brothers and sisters reading the replies, don't feel insecure. Don't start to question yourself. Many might have been used to the reply 'it's all about personality' and start to question now after having read many admit looks matter a great deal.

2. Work on yourself , for yourself, and not to attract the attention of the opposite sex, but for your own mental, physical and spiritual well being. The last thing i want young brothers or sisters, or even some of the older ones doing is start modifying themselves for the sake of becoming more desirable for a potential spouse. That's just unhealthy.

3. It's not about how you are born, there is much you can do to improve your appearance, and again, it is best if this is done purely for yourself, first and foremost.

4. Go for piety before all of these other factors. 

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23 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

t's 3am, so i hope i'm going to make sense. I know what sort of culture you are talking about. Men are obsessed with this Alpha-male and Beta-male rubbish.  The whole pick-up games, Alpha-Male and the rest of the gimmicks we see are nonsense with only some grain of truth that is mixed in with so much rubbish it doesn't even matter. It might work with Gorrillas , but i'm not sure how well that is going to work with women.

Exactly, only a tiny grain of truth can be found within their ideas and mentality. (Some are downright laughable “reasons to date a girl with an eating disorder” come to mind.) sometimes I feel like these men who sprout ideas like this, within the manosphere are trolling just for traffic and controversy. 

It definitely won’t work on woman. I always say to just be yourself, be genuine and kind. And then the right person will find you. 

23 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Yes, jealousy plays a part in shaming normal-weight woman, but some people shame them [or they shame themselves] for not being even thinner. It is sickening what some industries these days demands as a normal woman i.e someone pretty much with a BMI of 15. I know there has been backlash over this, but it is sickening and so many women are left insecure. Even if we go into the healthy range, many women feel insecure still. The reality is, what men generally want is not reflected in what the media will show and you are correct in what you said about shape and proportion. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. If there is someone overweight , it wouldn't be an immediate cause for me to judge, given that women and men tend to put on weight after having children, raising them, and growing into middle age, or perhaps having gone through difficult periods in their life. However, for a  young man looking for a potential suitor, if someone is overweight, it can indicate everything you've just said. I was basically trying to say what you've said but my thoughts tend to be muddled and all over the place when discussing these sorts of issues that sometimes wander into the abstract. It isn't just about the weight and exterior image per say - which matters nonetheless. Rather it is also what that exterior represents in the character of a person.

I guess it all happened in the “twiggy” era (who had a bmi of 15, I believe.) when gay men started to dominate and modeling became the new face of counter-culture ideals. (Nothing wrong with counter-culture ideals until it becomes harmful to one’s self or others.) suddenly, bone-thin was considered desirable. And the heavier people became, the more this ideal was emphasized. Yes, it is disgusting what the modeling industry has become. 

Now for celebrities, in which the media focuses more on, is interesting. The average female bmi in Hollyweird, or the standard to get your foot in the door or to be considered would be on average of bmi 19.5-20. While for some this would be unattainable for some due to muscle mass and bone structure, many woman could achieve this as long as they cut their big portions by half. (600 calorie meals instead of 1200 for the average lunch/dinner.) 

but even then, as the average grows larger, even people are starting to complain about the media average of 19.5-20, when it has always been the ideal for female celebrities like Marilyn Monroe (bmi 20.8) among others. 

I agree that lots of woman feel insecure despite being in the healthy range. The insecurity can be also a manifestation of environment and that’s where Islam comes into play.

I’ve noticed that in Muslim countries where woman cover-up, the body is less noticeable to other woman, and feelings of insecurity lessen. And hence, why woman tend to be thinner in Muslim countries on average. In countries where woman don’t dress islamically, not only do other woman notice each other’s bodies, but if the environment leans toward heavy, this can cause anxiety and stress on the normal weight person to become thinner due to fear of becoming fat. 

In terms of your mind wandering into the abstract with regards to this topic—your responses are easy to understand and follow. The internet is full of abstract thinkers, anyway. 

23 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

You know, from my research men end to be quite easily pleased. There doesn't seem to really be any real emphasis other than being a normal weight and other things you mentioned which would be better i don't elaborate on. I also do agree that keeping weight off isn't easy, for reasons you've mentioned.  In terms of being overweight, it's nature and nurture, and nurture has a far, far greater role, so no-one should be making excuses. This excludes those with genuine genetic conditions which effect many other aspects of their health, but these are very rare genetic conditions. I generally wouldn't look at someone who is overweight and shame them, but i guess what we are doing here is discussing those people who wish to try to find potential suitors/husbands/wives and so need to make that effort.   Whoever loses a lot of weight and keeps it like that has good self-control and it's a commendable feat, no doubt.

 However i'm going to insist that for a guy, being skinny is the equivalent of a lady being overweight. The reality is, a lot of guys are skinny, some more than others. Women often tolerated that on a guy, or tolerate an average body type, or even 'dadbod', because Allah hasn't given men natural shape and definition that is easily acquirable - they have to lift, more often than not to get that distinctive shape.  

If a man doesn't have a great body , it won't kill a relationship or damage it much at all. However, if he does have a great body, it has the power to enhance a relationship notably. A good woman would never leave a man or not love him over something like if he doesn't lift so long as he is in neither extreme, however, i sincerely believe if he did lift - though not to crazy levels- it would he

I’ve noticed that as well, more or less. There are some men, however, who aren’t easily pleased and “picky” and they tend to be in the minority. I’ve noticed that overly picky men don’t know what they really want and are looking for quick feelings that will fizzle-out long term. Of course, this doesn’t apply to all men, just a very small sample out there. 

As for woman, most woman are told conflicting things about what they should want vs what they want and this damages potiental relationships and marriage prospects. Depending on culture, there are more environmental factors at play for why woman pick a suitor over another. Until recently, arranged marriages have been based on social status and elevation, how the suitor appears in the community, etc., not based on genuine feelings of love and wanting to be together. There may be love and affection there, but people are driven more to make a marriage work regardless of how they feel about each other in arranged marriages, which is why I personally wouldn’t recommend arranged marriages to most people. 

Furthermore, I ignore the statistics on the matter that people in arranged marriages are less likely to divorce, for the reasons I’ve mentioned above. Lots of it has to do with culture and community. 

I will be honest and say depending on the person and depending on the weight (anything over 250 pounds) I will inwardly start to judge someone. I understand that many people don’t have the tools to change, but when I see someone who is obese, I tend to think they are not very healthy. I would never let it show on my face though, as I hate to hurt people, but when I see someone who is obese, men or woman, (less judgmental toward middle aged people—this is geared toward younger adults.) I tend to reflect on the pain that they must have felt, and the pain I have felt while battling my own weight issues.

im not really sure what your definition of “skinny” is for a man. I’m assuming you mean a man who doesn’t lift much but is otherwise in the healthy range. When I think of skinny men, I think of underweight men, men who look like they have been starving. 

I guess it would help a relationship depending on the two people in it. As long as men take care of themselves or try to, most woman would be quite happy as long as all the other factors of a relationship are there. 

23 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

t's quite interesting, i had read about this. The way you place your tongue in your mouth influences your cheekbones and how your face looks, and mouth breathing can seriously harm your looks.  I'm not sure if this helped me, but when i was 18 i stopped the mouth breathing, adjusted my tongue posture, and did everything you've said and i had some notable changes, and felt better. I think things like this should be done by everyone. I know we are all Muslims, our goal is the Akhirah, however we should also know God made this world under certain laws. Some features are desirable and attainable somewhat , and such as you have mentioned can be improved to an extent, and if someone has that knowledge they should do so. No-one should be mouth breathing unless they have a condition which means they can't do other than that, or for one or another reason.

The drive to gain muscle isn't something that tends to be put on women, generally it's just being a healthy weight and everything else takes care of itself. However you're right , most women won't care so much so long as he has an average build. However i think in an already stable marriage it can enhance physical attracti

I have done the same thing as well, but only a year ago, and I didn’t think I saw much change in my appearance until I compared my face before and after correction of oral posture. Huge difference in my jawline and cheekbones and chin and even the distance between my nose and upper lip became shorter by a mm. Prior to open bite surgery, my surgeon also wanted to perform a sliding genioplasty to correct the slight tilting of my chin, however, a year later, when he measured the mid lines, I no longer needed genioplasty and the tilt had been corrected. I absolutely believe that this works. I also agree with you that it should be done by everyone. 

I’m not sure again, in terms of enhancing physical attraction unless it’s a big change because I’ve never been married, but I think you know more about this than I do.

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I think physical attraction is important but not as essential as religion and personality. I also don't think it's wise to be excessively picky and have a set criteria for your partner's appearance, e.g. a specific skin colour, hair colour/length, height, etc. You might never find a person with the exact features you're looking for. On the other hand, you might find them and also find out that you both share nothing in common, or perhaps you might have views that conflict with theirs regarding religion. In the end, however, to each their own... I just think it would be worthwhile to give people a chance, even if you don't think they would suit you. You won't lose anything by doing so and, subhanAllah, you might end up liking the very person you thought you never would.

I'd also like to add the importance of being kind to your fellow muslim brothers and sisters and to not judge them, regardless of their looks. Please don't make assumptions about how a person lives based on their appearance. If they're overweight, have acne/acne scars/rough skin/stretch marks, have dark circles/bags underneath their eyes... y'know, things that are typically considered to be not aesthetically pleasing... please don't assume things. Please don't assume they're just lazy, are not prioritising themselves, have no time management, don't know how to take care of themselves, etc. Most people are actively trying to find a solution for their problems and haven't found one yet. Some are absolutely trying their best and it's just not working out. Everyone has different circumstances, and I'm sure we can all agree life isn't as simple as a lot of people make it out to be. 

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Inappropriate and Off-Topic posts have been removed. Policies or actions by the ShiaChat team should not be discussed and made into a public debate, unless specified by a Moderator/Admin. If anyone is unhappy with an action taken against them by the ShiaChat team, contact the moderators and reasons will be given to them. This means you send a private message (PM) concerning your complaint. 

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I wrote a very long post on the scientific, anthropological and societal dimensions of this discussion. I feel that might be going way too far in this discussion however. In summary: Don't be insecure, work hard, do it for yourself, and leave the rest to God.

To men and women: In summary, of course looks matter, why did the women respond the way they did to Prophet Yusuf [as]? However, don't ever get skinny, or get built to impress the opposite sex or because of pressure. Do it for you - for your own well being, to feel healthy. Also, while looks undoubtedly play a factor in marriages, everyone maybe having their own preference, you have got to have more important things worthy of greater substance you should be looking out for.

Nothing more to say after that. Don't judge, think well of everyone, hope the best for everyone. 

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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Of course looks do matter. But in a sense that one should be looking clean and physically be healthy. 

There is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes regarding how a person looks. 

But of course one should know when they are being completely ridiculous and it is worse to point out a physical characteristic as being ugly or flaw which makes you not like the person. That's stupid, cruel, and uncalled for. 

This is where white lies are okay. When you don't want to marry someone because of their looks, try to give another excuse instead. 

I personally only look at the fact if the [person, man or woman] was clean and healthy. Height, weight, colour, and etc. Don't really matter to me. 

My bigger issue is the emotional connection. 

For me looks would go out the window if the emotional bond is there and feels very solid. Even health stuff I can over look. But uncleanliness is my biggest turn off. 

Edited by Hameedeh
Member asked to clarify [person, man or woman].

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I think our brain automatically judges someone as soon as we see them due to which looks may matter, but I think once you genuinely admire someone for their personality they automatically seem beautiful regardless of how they look and I think true beauty is derived from someone's personality, due to which in a way I think the internet is sometimes a better way to get to know someone(considering they're being themselves) that first you talk them and get to know them as a person and then you see them. Hope I make sense lol.

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