Jump to content

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

Mother suffer more than fathers. It's not a race, but you have to give credit where credit is due. Fact is women deal with abuse more than men. If you count the number of hours, then hours needed to take care of children exceed than 40 hours most men work in a week. So it's unfair if you expect your wife to work and take care of the house also. I have repeated it many times, most women gain weight after becoming mothers. I have seen them, they were smart before marriage, they gained weight after becoming mothers and now they are not able to lose the weight. I wish when people make blank statements about Allah doesn't like over-weight people, they would think for a second about all those women. 

You are clearly a feminist. And I never said It was fair, did I? I hate the fact that men think they are something when they are nothing. Most wars are lead by men, most damage are made by men, but that doesn't make all men like that? You don't know what I have seen, and whom I have hated, and how I have suffered, so you have no right to call women for the only one who suffers? 

The fact that you can't agree that both genders suffer makes you not intelligent in my point of view, cause men need to have standards to even get anywhere in life and if they show emotions, they are called weak, and if they even try to act like a good guy, his guys friend calls him homosexual cause he thinks that women should have rights.

Who is the cold-hearted person in this place? Is it really just you? AND I AGREE THAT WOMEN SHOULD GET MORE LOVE, AND RESPECT, ESPECIALLY THE MOTHERS! but at least try to understand the men before you judge every man, when there are some trying to defend you.

Edited by Wared

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wared said:

The fact that you can't agree that both genders suffer makes you not intelligent in my point of view, cause men need to have standards to even get anywhere in life and if they show emotions, they are called weak, and if they even try to act like a good guy, his guys friend calls him homosexual cause he thinks that women should have rights.

Exactly my point: the fact that you are insulted just because you are trying to defend women's rights. Now imagine what it's like to be a woman. Anyway, I am sorry if I upset you. I hope you remember that motherhood involves very hard work for years and years and while doing that work women may get tired, unhappy. It's very unfair to expect them to always be happy and excited about it and especially to say that it means they don't love their children. When people suffer, it shows because they become more empathetic and less judgmental. In eastern culture, most men and women have very misogynistic beliefs, so it's very hard to know who is trying to defend women and it's natural to assume everyone is justifying oppression of women. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

Exactly my point: the fact that you are insulted just because you are trying to defend women's rights. Now imagine what it's like to be a woman. Anyway, I am sorry if I upset you. I hope you remember that motherhood involves very hard work for years and years and while doing that work women may get tired, unhappy. It's very unfair to expect them to always be happy and excited about it and especially to say that it means they don't love their children. When people suffer, it shows because they become more empathetic and less judgmental. In eastern culture, most men and women have very misogynistic beliefs, so it's very hard to know who is trying to defend women and it's natural to assume everyone is justifying oppression of women. 

It is alright! It was my fault to begin with, I should apologize for being a little harsh...

You are still seeing the one version of the argument, even though I totally agree on that, that is wrong, but  what about the guy who is scared to talk back? Who suffers from depression and wishes life was better than it is? You are not being in his boots? Are you? Life is injust for the men and the women! That is why Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى will send a savior, to help us to be united, as people and for us to love each other.

Edited by Wared

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advice to the brothers:

1. What women say =/= what women want. Generally speaking, take whatever 'advice' given with a pinch of salt.

2. Focus on yourself, improve yourself, including your physique, grooming and dress. The better looking you make yourself, and the higher status you acquire, the better you will be treated. Scientifically speaking , women go after pre-selected men. That means those men who more women tend to view as desirable, women tend to prefer them. Once they marry them, they are more likely to treat them far better to keep them. This is fact, let no-one tell you otherwise. Lift weights, get a good physique, a great and groomed beard, but don't do it for women, do it for your own confidence, your own health and own desire to pursue halal means of improving yourself. 

3. Have standards and don't let anyone lower them. Don't let anyone online tell you you're average, don't let anyone lower your expectations. The moment you start listening to strangers about who you are and what your limits are, your life is already a shadow of what it can be.

4. Put piety before looks, but make allowance for the importance of looks for you. The last thing you want is a conceited woman to marry who overrates her beauty and has no piety.  And by piety, i don't mean 'outward' piety, i mean genuine piety.

5. Work on getting to a level of yourself that shocks people, and make a lot of Dua. Allah is the one in whose hand is your destiny, and if he has written something for you, you will receive it. Trust in what he allows for you, and leave it to him. Don't base your happiness on a woman, never ever do that. 

And generally speaking, one particular image sums it up:

[Mod Note: Image was irrelevant. Removed.]

Edited by ShiaChat Mod
Mod Note

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

3. Have standards and don't let anyone lower them. Don't let anyone online tell you you're average, don't let anyone lower your expectations.

Are you taking a dig at me? I just told a sister, the OP, that she was average. 

It’s not about “lowering standards” (far from it.) —it’s about a couple of other things. Let me give you an example.

Girl is average in weight, as in, not overweight or slim. She doesn’t look “hot”, nor does she take pride in her appearance. She doesn’t wish to improve herself—because she feels like she deserves any and every guy without putting any work in for herself. (Same could be applied to men too.) She wants Mr. Unreachablly Buff but he tells her, “I want someone who shares the same passion for fitness as me.” And she flips-out and calls him all sort of insults. 

Mr. Unreachablly Buff has the face of a male model, good teeth, while Girl, in addition to not being interested in fitness or health, has greasy/unstyled hair most days and has a big nose. 

While I do believe that self-improvement can get you more conventionally attractive partners, entitlement is what kills all attempts or possibilities of such a thing. Even if a goofy guy with odd glasses lifts weights to reel in women, some things won’t be overlooked. Can you really expect a goofy, socially awkward guy to be with a model-like woman? Of course not.

Studies have shown that people of similar attractiveness not only attract each other, but are likely to be with each other. This concept of “attractiveness”, in my opinion, doesn’t just stop at what’s seen at the surface. It’s the “vibe” of two people, how their interactions are, how well they “mesh” together. What I mean is, when you look at couples, you can kind of tell which are mismatched and which couples aren’t going to last vs the ones who are. 

Most of it’s intuition, but there’s another aspect: people who are similar not in personality, but in the “kind” of people they are, stay together. 

19 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

higher status you acquire, the better you will be treated. Scientifically speaking , women go after pre-selected men. That means those men who more women tend to view as desirable, women tend to prefer them. Once they marry them, they are more likely to treat them far better to keep them.

While social status can be changed throughout society, it doesn’t always erase where someone is from. There are certain mannerisms, mentalities, behavior, etc., that separate the classes. A person who was born in the ghetto and talks like trailer trash, no matter how often has lived in the city, cannot ever quite become the same as someone who was raised right (not necessarily in a wealthy environment.)

Example: there was a person I knew, who was originally from a redneck environment (no judgement, just saying what he said.) and while he wanted to be a doctor and his family recently moved into a massive house, there were certain mannerisms that I could not overlook. IE: acting like a low-life, bragging about money excessively (something you never see people of true class do.) arrogance because of these “material goods” as if class and humility, among others can be bought.

the truth is, some things cannot be bought. There’s another family I know who recently lost their house, but their attitude and mannerisms does not reflect the environment in which they have currently moved into. 

So I think you are oversimplifying the issue. Girls want guys (and are likely to keep men, if they are not immature themselves.) guys who treat them well and are kind to them. Men that are “like themselves” who they can see themselves with in the long term. Woman will marry those they can see themselves with in the long term. Although overall desirability does matter to a girl (to various extents for every girl.) the reason why girls remain with someone and not another is not societital desirability, but how the girl herself PERSONALLY desires someone. 

For myself, even if every girl fawns over the next “it” guy, I’m unlikely to find that person desirable. Attractiveness, is not purely subjective, and therefore, while I think the next “it” guy is attractive, I would not desire him. Desirability and attractiveness is not always linked. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

.

Actually , most of what you said is pretty spot on, and arguably the best points on this thread. My advice was just for men to generally work on themselves, not be too caught up on what any woman says, or man says in terms of what women want, and to just focus on improving themselves and work on their own self-esteem, rather than be overly focused on which gender wants want. This applies to women, this applies to men, and all of us.

As for what i disagree on with yourself, i'll elaborate on the next post, inshAllah.

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Are you taking a dig at me? I just told a sister, the OP, that she was average. 

It’s not about “lowering standards” (far from it.) —it’s about a couple of other things. Let me give you an example.

Girl is average in weight, as in, not overweight or slim. She doesn’t look “hot”, nor does she take pride in her appearance. She doesn’t wish to improve herself—because she feels like she deserves any and every guy without putting any work in for herself. (Same could be applied to men too.) She wants Mr. Unreachablly Buff but he tells her, “I want someone who shares the same passion for fitness as me.” And she flips-out and calls him all sort of insults. 

Mr. Unreachablly Buff has the face of a male model, good teeth, while Girl, in addition to not being interested in fitness or health, has greasy/unstyled hair most days and has a big nose. 

While I do believe that self-improvement can get you more conventionally attractive partners, entitlement is what kills all attempts or possibilities of such a thing. Even if a goofy guy with odd glasses lifts weights to reel in women, some things won’t be overlooked. Can you really expect a goofy, socially awkward guy to be with a model-like woman? Of course not.

Studies have shown that people of similar attractiveness not only attract each other, but are likely to be with each other. This concept of “attractiveness”, in my opinion, doesn’t just stop at what’s seen at the surface. It’s the “vibe” of two people, how their interactions are, how well they “mesh” together. What I mean is, when you look at couples, you can kind of tell which are mismatched and which couples aren’t going to last vs the ones who are. 

Most of it’s intuition, but there’s another aspect: people who are similar not in personality, but in the “kind” of people they are, stay together. 

While social status can be changed throughout society, it doesn’t always erase where someone is from. There are certain mannerisms, mentalities, behavior, etc., that separate the classes. A person who was born in the ghetto and talks like trailer trash, no matter how often has lived in the city, cannot ever quite become the same as someone who was raised right (not necessarily in a wealthy environment.)

Example: there was a person I knew, who was originally from a redneck environment (no judgement, just saying what he said.) and while he wanted to be a doctor and his family recently moved into a massive house, there were certain mannerisms that I could not overlook. IE: acting like a low-life, bragging about money excessively (something you never see people of true class do.) arrogance because of these “material goods” as if class and humility, among others can be bought.

the truth is, some things cannot be bought. There’s another family I know who recently lost their house, but their attitude and mannerisms does not reflect the environment in which they have currently moved into. 

So I think you are oversimplifying the issue. Girls want guys (and are likely to keep men, if they are not immature themselves.) guys who treat them well and are kind to them. Men that are “like themselves” who they can see themselves with in the long term. Woman will marry those they can see themselves with in the long term. Although overall desirability does matter to a girl (to various extents for every girl.) the reason why girls remain with someone and not another is not societital desirability, but how the girl herself PERSONALLY desires someone. 

For myself, even if every girl fawns over the next “it” guy, I’m unlikely to find that person desirable. Attractiveness, is not purely subjective, and therefore, while I think the next “it” guy is attractive, I would not desire him. Desirability and attractiveness is not always linked. 

Just to be clear - you're not the first person to make certain points about the sociology of average. I rarely dig at anyone indirectly, and so i was generally addressing the overall concept of the issue. 

 Before i go onto addressing some of your posts, let me just give insight into a scientific reality: a woman biologically is far more choosy about a man, than a man is about a woman. Women bear children and must be selective about their partners genes/ability to care for them and protect them. They stand to risk far more over choosing the wrong partner.  Men on the other hand have less of a risk biologically; they don't carry the child. This might sound far too abstract and inhuman, but our behaviour is influenced by this innate animalistic tendencies. 

Now, here is where i disagree with you: The problem i have, while i generally feel you have made the best points on this thread,  i don't like certain terminology you've used here. For example 'goofy guy with glasses' , 'model like woman' and stereotypes. The reality is, most guys don't actually like 'models' as we know them conventionally. It's quite easy for most women to be appealing to most men, if they lose weight and modify certain features, of course, i only speak purely biologically and not what i advice or advocate for women to do in society. The spectrum of 'beauty' for a woman is far greater in range. They can hide behind make up, hair, and far more emphasis is placed on their exterior, If a woman wants to be more appealing, more often than not,  all she has to do is lose weight, which by no means is easy to do, but that act itself can enhance her appearance ten-fold. In order for a man to look that good, he needs to lift heavy weights for a year or two, if not three, and put on muscle via hypertrophy. On top of that he needs to consume 3000+ calories per day in the exact macronutrient range and the effort to eat like that is difficult, particularly the dedication you need to continually try to get the right level of protein.  For a man to obtain what is a 'good' body , it will take him far more effort. He can't hide behind make up, and arguably the only thing he can do equivalent to make-up is grow a beard [that looks decent]. So the term 'model woman' is going so far into one extreme and direction and wouldn't have much practical application given what i have said. Now, in terms of a 'goofy' man as you put it, going after a 'model like' woman, again you're going far too much in extremes; when i discuss principles i do so with the general populous in mind, exceptions always break the rules. I don't consider anyone goofy but i appreciate what you are getting at.

For a man, generally speaking, the following are important to a woman : Face, Height, Income, Status, Wealth, Intelligence.

For a woman, generally speaking, the following are important to a man: Beauty , exterior,  intelligence.

If any man or woman tells you otherwise, it just isn't true. If someone says 'i just want a pious spouse who treats me well' most likely it isn't the full truth.  Yes, some might genuinely be exceptions but those factors i have mentioned are scientifically proven and evidenced and observed in almost all generations and societies.  I've missed out emotional connection, personality, and other factors because what i am discussing here is what gets you approved and 'in the door' so that both parties can evaluate what they want further. Those studies you mention are true for average people in society. Now i don't define 'average' by 'average' looking, rather i define it by what society has set in stone, and so many people might not feel confident at proposing or approaching someone they think is societally 'better' or the like. Those people have an 'average' mindset.  People who step outside of what other people impose on them as limitations, work on themselves, will find they are above the curve, and they didn't let people define who they were.

I have insisted on this: No man or woman should ever improve themselves for the sake of getting married. The idea is to look deep inside and ask yourself 'who do i want to be'? Then going out and learning how you're going to do that and applying the knowledge as if your life depends on it; because it does.

If a so-called 'average' man went from 120lbs to 175lbs, at 10% body fat, worked his socks off and obtained a decent job, improved his sense of dress, smell, appearance and confidence, for his own sake, rather than to impress anyone, there is little doubt in my mind such a man would have a fair chance with most potential suitors.  Now if that man believed he was this average guy, and there was nothing he could do , unfortunately he has lost before the car has even got started.  Let us use whatever Halal means we have to all improve ourselves, break this so-called rule of 'average people know your place' and be free. 

Woman might settle for a guy, and a good woman might grow to want a guy even more, and such sorts of marriages are the best in my opinion, the ones likely to last a lifetime, and the healthiest. However, i say we should never have people believing they should know their place. People should work on themselves , not impose arbitrary groupings on themselves, and define what their own limits are.

The idea is, if a man should make himself more than just a man, he should devote himself to an ideal - his own ideal, for his own self. Bragging, boasting, being arrogant means you're doing it for other people. The rule is that you must work on yourself for yourself, such that if you were the only being in existence on earth you would do the same. Live life without limitations set by others ; make your own rules and live and die by them . We should all be allergic to average. Not so-called 'average' people, but an average attitude. We should seek excellence in everything, to the limit of our ability and our situation. That's my motto.

 

I haven't addressed points that address extremes i.e 'it guy' and the rest of it, because general principles apply generally, and extremes are more complex.  As we are also on a thread about physical appearance, generally i wouldn't go too much into the other valid and important components you have mentioned.

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Are you taking a dig at me? I just told a sister, the OP, that she was average. 

It’s not about “lowering standards” (far from it.) —it’s about a couple of other things. Let me give you an example.

Girl is average in weight, as in, not overweight or slim. She doesn’t look “hot”, nor does she take pride in her appearance. She doesn’t wish to improve herself—because she feels like she deserves any and every guy without putting any work in for herself. (Same could be applied to men too.) She wants Mr. Unreachablly Buff but he tells her, “I want someone who shares the same passion for fitness as me.” And she flips-out and calls him all sort of insults. 

Mr. Unreachablly Buff has the face of a male model, good teeth, while Girl, in addition to not being interested in fitness or health, has greasy/unstyled hair most days and has a big nose. 

While I do believe that self-improvement can get you more conventionally attractive partners, entitlement is what kills all attempts or possibilities of such a thing. Even if a goofy guy with odd glasses lifts weights to reel in women, some things won’t be overlooked. Can you really expect a goofy, socially awkward guy to be with a model-like woman? Of course not.

Studies have shown that people of similar attractiveness not only attract each other, but are likely to be with each other. This concept of “attractiveness”, in my opinion, doesn’t just stop at what’s seen at the surface. It’s the “vibe” of two people, how their interactions are, how well they “mesh” together. What I mean is, when you look at couples, you can kind of tell which are mismatched and which couples aren’t going to last vs the ones who are. 

Most of it’s intuition, but there’s another aspect: people who are similar not in personality, but in the “kind” of people they are, stay together. 

While social status can be changed throughout society, it doesn’t always erase where someone is from. There are certain mannerisms, mentalities, behavior, etc., that separate the classes. A person who was born in the ghetto and talks like trailer trash, no matter how often has lived in the city, cannot ever quite become the same as someone who was raised right (not necessarily in a wealthy environment.)

Example: there was a person I knew, who was originally from a redneck environment (no judgement, just saying what he said.) and while he wanted to be a doctor and his family recently moved into a massive house, there were certain mannerisms that I could not overlook. IE: acting like a low-life, bragging about money excessively (something you never see people of true class do.) arrogance because of these “material goods” as if class and humility, among others can be bought.

the truth is, some things cannot be bought. There’s another family I know who recently lost their house, but their attitude and mannerisms does not reflect the environment in which they have currently moved into. 

So I think you are oversimplifying the issue. Girls want guys (and are likely to keep men, if they are not immature themselves.) guys who treat them well and are kind to them. Men that are “like themselves” who they can see themselves with in the long term. Woman will marry those they can see themselves with in the long term. Although overall desirability does matter to a girl (to various extents for every girl.) the reason why girls remain with someone and not another is not societital desirability, but how the girl herself PERSONALLY desires someone. 

For myself, even if every girl fawns over the next “it” guy, I’m unlikely to find that person desirable. Attractiveness, is not purely subjective, and therefore, while I think the next “it” guy is attractive, I would not desire him. Desirability and attractiveness is not always linked. 

How do you know what I look like saying I’m average I’ve never even shown you what I look like 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Just to be clear - you're not the first person to make certain points about the sociology of average. I rarely dig at anyone indirectly, and so i was generally addressing the overall concept of the issue. 

 Before i go onto addressing some of your posts, let me just give insight into a scientific reality: a woman biologically is far more choosy about a man, than a man is about a woman. Women bear children and must be selective about their partners genes/ability to care for them and protect them. They stand to risk far more over choosing the wrong partner.  Men on the other hand have less of a risk biologically; they don't carry the child. This might sound far too abstract and inhuman, but our behaviour is influenced by this innate animalistic tendencies. 

Now,

Oh okay. I guess now since finding people have become resorting to social media and now that most people expose their lives through the internet, I see your point. 

I understand that biologically woman are likely to be choosier than men because there’s more at stake for a woman (hence why Islam gives men certain responsibilities that will lessen or prevent a man from straying, and why certain restrictions are placed on relationships between men and woman regarding intimacy before marriage.)

This isn’t really an abstract concept to me—I’ve also read about biological tendencies in both men and woman

1 hour ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

 

Now, here is where i disagree with you: The problem i have, while i generally feel you have made the best points on this thread,  i don't like certain terminology you've used here. For example 'goofy guy with glasses' , 'model like woman' and stereotypes. The reality is, most guys don't actually like 'models' as we know them conventionally. It's quite easy for most women to be appealing to most men, if they lose weight and modify certain features, of course, i only speak purely biologically and not what i advice or advocate for women to do in society. The spectrum of 'beauty' for a woman is far greater in range. They can hide behind make up, hair, and far more emphasis is placed on their exterior, If a woman wants to be more appealing, more often than not,  all she has to do is lose weight, which by no means is easy to do, but that act itself can enhance her appearance ten-fold. In order for a man to look that good, he needs to lift heavy weights for a year or two, if not three, and put on muscle via hypertrophy. On top of that he needs to consume 3000+ calories per day in the exact macronutrient range and the effort to eat like that is difficult, particularly the dedication you need to continually try to get the right level of protein.  For a man to obtain what is a 'good' body , it will take him far more effort. He can't hide behind make up, and arguably the only thing he can do equivalent to make-up is grow a beard [that looks decent]. So the term 'model woman' is going so far into one extreme and direction and wouldn't have much practical application given what i have said. Now, in terms of a 'goofy' man as you put it, going after a 'model like' woman, again you're going far too much in extremes; when i discuss principles i do so with the general populous in mind, exceptions always break the rules. I don't consider anyone goofy but i appreciate what you are getting at.

 

I agree that some of the terminology is a bit blunt or crude (Because truth be told, I hate the terms “beta” and “alpha” male used to describe men because they are so limiting and most don’t fit neatly into either category.) but I hope I’ve been able to get the general idea of my thoughts across. 

As for “model-like” woman—I should probably clarify now that I do know that most men don’t find runway models attractive as they are too thin and too gaunt—by “model-like” woman, I meant face models. Models who are healthy and are the ones you would see in makeup departments or stores like Sephora.

To give an example of such a woman, Dua Lipa is one of them. She has the semmetry, fullness of the face, jawline, and maxilla set far forward that is required for any branch of the modeling world. And most people, while the desirability might decrease or increase depending on a man’s overall preferences, you would have to agree that she is considered to be expectionally good-looking among woman, as a general rule, based on her proportions. A woman like Dua Lipa can get any man she wants based on how she carries herself, her face, etc.

You mentioned about how men have to work harder to be physically attractive to woman and how woman have more things to “hide” by. How I view it, and I’m not completely disagreeing with you, only partially, is that nowadays, with all the abundance of junk food, lack of knowledge about calories and nutrition and portion control, it’s equally hard for men and woman to achieve the ideal body. Many woman sabotage themselves and other woman by encouraging them to shave the sides of their heads, dye it unnatural colors, get untasteful tattoos. (“Your new haircut looks super cute!”) and since many woman don’t feel like they have to lose weight at all due to the environment, they won’t, or their friends will sometimes make snides at attempts at weight loss. (“Men like curves, just have another piece of cake, are you sure you won’t have another bite? Don’t ‘obsess’ over your figure. You really don’t need to lose those last 30 pounds—you look fine.”)

I personally would say that most men don’t have to work-out to get an attractive body. When men are at a healthy weight and not under or overweight, there is natural arm muscle definition and most woman don’t care for washboard abs. 

Therefore, it is possible for both men and woman to obtain good bodies: don’t be over or underweight. Any girl who complains at that point about a man’s lack of muscles is either trolling or immature, or just not that into the guy and is looking for an excuse to nitpick or eventually leave. 

1 hour ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

any man or woman tells you otherwise, it just isn't true. If someone says 'i just want a pious spouse who treats me well' most likely it isn't the full truth.  Yes, some might genuinely be exceptions but those factors i

But when a woman has been through certain heartbreaks or bad experiences with men, importance on character becomes the main focus. I’m not denying that attraction is important, but that character is the defining factor in choosing someone over another , for most maturing woman who think about the long term and that is the truth. Now some woman might realize this at the age of 30, after being with all the wrong men upon reflection, or a woman might realize this at 20. It depends on the woman’s maturity to come to this conclusion. 

 

1 hour ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

e idea is, if a man should make himself more than just a man, he should devote himself to an ideal - his own ideal, for his own self. Bragging, boasting, being arrogant means you're doing it for other people. The rule is that you must work on yourself for yourself, such that if you were the only being in existence on earth you would do the same. Live life without limitations set by others ; make your own rules and live and die by them . We should all be allergic to average. Not so-called 'average' people, but an average attitude. We should seek excellence in everything, to the limit of our ability and our situation. That's my motto.

 

I 100% agree with this, and this is my belief as well. I was just observing in my post what tends to happen in society as a general rule—it was a commentary on my observations. There are exceptions in terms of attractiveness and who ends up with who regarding that, but my point is also that no one should feel entitled to the exception when it’s not the rule unless that person is willing to put effort in to change. None of this, “I am 30 pounds over my ideal weight, and I don’t care of myself/hair/face and I want a guy with muscles because of the fact that I’m a woman.”

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sisterfatima1 said:

How do you know what I look like saying I’m average I’ve never even shown you what I look like 

I can tell by how you worded certain things. “My BMI is healthy” as an example. And your attitude/mentality with regards to men. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

To give an example of such a woman, Dua Lipa is one of them. She has the semmetry, fullness of the face, jawline, and maxilla set far forward that is required for any branch of the modeling world. And most people, while the desirability might decrease or increase depending on a man’s overall preferences, you would have to agree that she is considered to be expectionally good-looking among woman, as a general rule, based on her proportions. A woman like Dua Lipa can get any man she wants based on how she carries herself, her face, etc.

Solid post, i'll reply when i get time inshAllah as you've raised excellent points. However the Dua Lipa example sent me into hysterics. 

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys do salawat! HOPE YOU GUYS REALLY REACH JANNAH!

 

@Wared [Mod Note: The image you posted in this topic was removed. Do not post the same image in more than one topic.]

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Intellectual Resistance said:

Solid post, i'll reply when i get time inshAllah as you've raised excellent points. However the Dua Lipa example sent me into hysterics. 

Thank you, and I guess the hysteria of Dua Lipa is probably because of her music. (I guess also she is not your personal preference in terms of appearance, but I think you get my point with that example.) Dua Lipa is more attractive than, say, a woman with a receded chin or a big nose. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

To give an example of such a woman, Dua Lipa is one of them. She has the semmetry, fullness of the face, jawline, and maxilla set far forward that is required for any branch of the modeling world. And most people, while the desirability might decrease or increase depending on a man’s overall preferences, you would have to agree that she is considered to be expectionally good-looking among woman, as a general rule, based on her proportions. A woman like Dua Lipa can get any man she wants based on how she carries herself, her face, etc.

I have never heard of this Dua? do we make this Dua to attain beauty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Islandsandmirrors said:

Thank you, and I guess the hysteria of Dua Lipa is probably because of her music. (I guess also she is not your personal preference in terms of appearance, but I think you get my point with that example.) Dua Lipa is more attractive than, say, a woman with a receded chin or a big nose. 

If we look at the issue from a purely scientific perspective, cheekbones, jawline and the like certainly have an influence.  As for a big nose, that is subjective as well. This idea all men prefer very small noses is far too much of an exaggeration. It actually depends on how all the features fit in together. This is what i am getting at, forget these celebrities, (not you but everyone generally) and forget what the media says , and work on you. Sometimes something works on someone which may not be conventional. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only want one thing in ideal partner, no physical, verbal or psychological abuse. It's better if we don't ever talk. Our interaction only consists of me giving him meals every day (of course without any comments) and him giving me money for the expenses. I won't care how he looks like as long as I don't have to hear comments about my looks and house keeping skills. I will probably do a better job at raising kids, so it will be nice if there's no interference from him, and I won't ever interfere in his job and money-making skills. Now, don't attack me. I am just stating my preference. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You mentioned about how men have to work harder to be physically attractive to woman and how woman have more things to “hide” by. How I view it, and I’m not completely disagreeing with you, only partially, is that nowadays, with all the abundance of junk food, lack of knowledge about calories and nutrition and portion control, it’s equally hard for men and woman to achieve the ideal body. Many woman sabotage themselves and other woman by encouraging them to shave the sides of their heads, dye it unnatural colors, get untasteful tattoos. (“Your new haircut looks super cute!”) and since many woman don’t feel like they have to lose weight at all due to the environment, they won’t, or their friends will sometimes make snides at attempts at weight loss. (“Men like curves, just have another piece of cake, are you sure you won’t have another bite? Don’t ‘obsess’ over your figure. You really don’t need to lose those last 30 pounds—you look fine.”)

I personally would say that most men don’t have to work-out to get an attractive body. When men are at a healthy weight and not under or overweight, there is natural arm muscle definition and most woman don’t care for washboard abs. 

Therefore, it is possible for both men and woman to obtain good bodies: don’t be over or underweight. Any girl who complains at that point about a man’s lack of muscles is either trolling or immature, or just not that into the guy and is looking for an excuse to nitpick or eventually leave. 

But when a woman has been through certain heartbreaks or bad experiences with men, importance on character becomes the main focus. I’m not denying that attraction is important, but that character is the defining factor in choosing someone over another , for most maturing woman who think about the long term and that is the truth. Now some woman might realize this at the age of 30, after being with all the wrong men upon reflection, or a woman might realize this at 20. It depends on the woman’s maturity to come to this conclusion. 

Generally good post, i've omitted some parts to just focus on this so i can give some of my views as well:

I agree with not having this whole Alpha-Beta labelling. This is the whole idea: The more we get constrained in labels we become people we aren't; we seek approval rather than personal satisfaction.  If i lift, if i do all those things i have said, i don't do it for women, i don't do it for labels, i don't do it for others. I do it because it's the representation of who i am on the inside, manifested on the outside. 

To lose 30 pounds is hard, let me not lie. It's more of a mental struggle. With cheap food, abundance and the like , many people are heading towards being overweight, and even obese. These days even a normal weight woman gets shamed. However i stand by what i had said, for a guy to get a good body, it takes an incredible amount of effort.

To gain 2lbs of muscle, it takes a month, and that is only a new beginner working out perfectly, with good genetics and great nutrition. It is a serious long-term struggle, and the effort you need to put in to work out for or five times a week, to even get to a stage where you look like you lift [i.e notable progress] takes serious heavy weights, struggle, eating when you don't even want to eat, scientifically measuring calories. It's like an entire life-style and part time job. I still believe for a guy to get a good body, it takes work. Women aren't expected to gain what isn't there, they are just expected to lose what is excess on what is. No doubt that can be a challenge as well.

Men do have natural arm muscle, but the reality is, lifting weights develops the chest, shoulders, back, arms much further, legs , and the like. When someone lifts, they might go from an average body to looking strong, solid, and being significantly stronger physically. Scientifically, that makes ones wife feel much more 'protected' by her husband. Once more, anyone who tries to lift to get attention or for a SO is doing it for the wrong reasons. I also do agree, any woman who makes an excuse about a guys muscles is superficial. However if a guy already has them it can enhance the marriage, and sadly, even make her treat him better.

You're right about the heartbreak part. People start to realise that seeking superficial things over the more important things won't work well long term. However, some people have been cheated on, torn to pieces, over superficial reasons and vowed never to let that be a factor in the future. They hold their destinies in their hands, and don't allow themselves to suffer any further humiliation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I 100% agree with this, and this is my belief as well. I was just observing in my post what tends to happen in society as a general rule—it was a commentary on my observations. There are exceptions in terms of attractiveness and who ends up with who regarding that, but my point is also that no one should feel entitled to the exception when it’s not the rule unless that person is willing to put effort in to change. None of this, “I am 30 pounds over my ideal weight, and I don’t care of myself/hair/face and I want a guy with muscles because of the fact that I’m a woman.”

Couldn't agree more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Ok, fair enough, good points so far about health, well being and attraction. What about people who prefer their partners on the heavier side? @Islandsandmirrors @Intellectual Resistance

Is it still applicable?

Of course, everyone has a preference. We were just talking averages.  If someone wants someone on the heavier side, that's perfectly acceptable and they can have that on their list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Ok, fair enough, good points so far about health, well being and attraction. What about people who prefer their partners on the heavier side? @Islandsandmirrors @Intellectual Resistance

Is it still applicable?

That’s fine—preferences are absolutely fine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Ok, fair enough, good points so far about health, well being and attraction. What about people who prefer their partners on the heavier side? @Islandsandmirrors @Intellectual Resistance

Is it still applicable?

Why is that an attraction for you I find it interesting is it because it makes the face abit more rounder ect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×