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AnotherShepherd

Becoming Freemason change status as Shi'i?

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8 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Re: mod note.  Sometimes videos show in links and sometimes embedded in the post.

Mods do not want a link to a video without the name of the title being visible in the frame or above the link. People are reluctant to click on a link if they do not know the title of the video. Youtube videos do not have the name of the video in the link. It is usually the word watch and some letters and numbers.

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1 hour ago, Hameedeh said:

Mods do not want a link to a video without the name of the title being visible in the frame or above the link. People are reluctant to click on a link if they do not know the title of the video. Youtube videos do not have the name of the video in the link. It is usually the word watch and some letters and numbers.

What I meant is sometimes when you paste a YouTube link in your message, the thumbnail shows, and sometimes not.

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Just now, realizm said:

What I meant is sometimes when you paste a YouTube link in your message, the thumbnail shows, and sometimes not.

This is true. If the link was copied from facebook or someplace else, the image of the video frame does not show up at ShiaChat but shows up as a link. 

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On 1/6/2018 at 3:04 PM, Arminmo said:

Yes definitely, that's wrong.

Did you know what's the ideaology behind Freemasonry? They are devil worshipers.

Yea, thats what ignorant people say about Shia' too, didnt you know?

or about Jews, and Hindus.

 

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A good lot of you on this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. 

Practice what islam preaches.  Muslims dont appreciate non muslims conflating all of us as secret moon worshipping barbarians or a cult hellbent on world domination /terrorism, yet you speak ill and ignorantly of other groups based on propaganda similarly to those who speak ignorantly of muslims.

Are you not equally guilty as those who defile islam and our prophet by calling freemason's murtad or conflating Jews and Christians and hindus in a negative light?

Shame on all of you with your disparaging hypocritical rhetoric. 

This is how hate is ignited and fueled into a perpetually endless flame, which the Quran/Islam teaches is to abate and never ignite.

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What is the point?

What have you gained by joining it and what have you lost by not joining it?

Is there a definable need for joining something like this, a need which cannot be met already? 

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22 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

A good lot of you on this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. 

Practice what islam preaches.  Muslims dont appreciate non muslims conflating all of us as secret moon worshipping barbarians or a cult hellbent on world domination /terrorism, yet you speak ill and ignorantly of other groups based on propaganda similarly to those who speak ignorantly of muslims.

Are you not equally guilty as those who defile islam and our prophet by calling freemason's murtad or conflating Jews and Christians and hindus in a negative light?

Shame on all of you with your disparaging hypocritical rhetoric. 

This is how hate is ignited and fueled into a perpetually endless flame, which the Quran/Islam teaches is to abate and never ignite.

Please. There are people who have made researches about Freemasonry (including my humble self) and have written that they actually do have a theology even if they deny having one:they basically believe every man is godly and has to work on himself to become aware of his divine nature and thus be able to change the world. Since believing God in any shape or form is physically present in humans puts you out of Islam,a Muslim who becomes a Freemason is a murtad,whether you like it or not. I suggest you learn what Tawheed is,expecially in Shia Islam,and then come back without your feel-good/love-all attitude.

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4 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

There are people who have made researches about Freemasonry (including my humble self

Please, your research probably involves Dan Brown, Arrivals and whatever conspiracy theory you can find and dredge up to this thread.

4 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

they actually do have a theology even if they deny having one:they basically believe every man is godly and has to work on himself to become aware of his divine nature and thus be able to change the world.

I never heard of that, is this really legit because I read this:

Quote

There is no international administrative or controlling authority over Freemasonry. There’s no office anyone can call to get the official, worldwide policy position of Freemasons, because there is no such policy. In the United States, each state has its own Grand Lodge. But there are basic beliefs common to all regular, mainstream Masonic organizations.

The beliefs of Freemasonry can be boiled down to those three simple concepts. Masons are taught to believe in:

Brotherly love: Love for each other and for all mankind

Relief: Charity for others and mutual aid for fellow Masons

Truth: The search for answers to the universal questions of morality and the salvation of the soul that only a man’s individual faith and his relationship with God can provide

BROTHERLY LOVE

Simply put, Masons believe in the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule is part of every great world religion, so it qualifies as the single, unifying theme of all faiths. Its most basic concept is the cornerstone of Freemasonry, no matter how it is phrased:

Buddhism: “In five ways should a clansman minister to his friends and families; by generosity, courtesy, and benevolence, by treating them as he treats himself, and by being as good as his word.”

Christianity: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Confucianism: ÒWhat you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.”

Hinduism: “Men gifted with intelligence . . . should always treat others as they themselves wish to be treated.”

Islam: “No one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

Judaism: “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

Taoism: "Regard your neighbor’s gain as your own gain, and regard your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.”

RELIEF

Masons do not teach, and have never taught, that good works on Earth are a means of salvation in the afterlife. Masonic charity is practiced to improve the lives of men here and now.

Many people who are familiar with Freemasonry but are not members are aware of some of the fraternity’s philanthropic and charitable contributions to society. A common statement is made that, internationally, Freemasons provide $3 million every day to charity — $2 million in the United States alone. Three centuries of encouraging good works in its members have resulted in large, institutional charities supported by Freemasons. These include scholarships, relief for natural disasters, and donations to schools and to destitute families. Masons have provided retirement homes for their own members, as well as schools and homes for orphans, and they participate in a dizzying list of community and social programs. Especially notable are the many medical philanthropies supported by Masons, which range from neuromuscular, dental, and eye care, to the world-famous Shriners Hospital program for children.

Although these charities make an enormous contribution to and have a tremendous impact on society, Masons do not perform such services to mankind to receive gratitude or recognition. Individual Freemasons are encouraged to participate in all forms of charity and benevolence for society, not just the ones that get on the evening news or in the morning paper. Masonic charity does not just mean writing a check or throwing coins in a basket. It means giving a part of one’s self and one’s time — commodities that are always in short supply. By participating in improving the life of a whole community or a single human being, by example, they hope to encourage others to do the same.

TRUTH

Masonic truth is a little more difficult to explain, because it means something different to every man. When a new initiate enters the lodge, aspects of the ritual ceremony seem unusual. For example, he is blindfolded. Blindfolding is done for a variety of reasons, but the primary symbolism of being blindfolded is that the candidate is seeking light. Light in a Masonic lodge is a symbol of spiritual truth and knowledge, and every candidate must discover that light on his own. To be in darkness is to be ignorant and unaware. No lodge ceremony or Masonic lesson can pretend to provide “ultimate” truth for a Mason, but Masonry seeks to inspire the individual to search for knowledge on his own.

^This was from the book, Freemasonry for Dummies, that I mentioned earlier. The author is a Mason, so when you read the book, you are getting an understanding of their perspective. 

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14 hours ago, IbnSina said:

What is the point?

What have you gained by joining it and what have you lost by not joining it?

Is there a definable need for joining something like this, a need which cannot be met already? 

worldly gains and status, what else... 

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49 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Please, your research probably involves Dan Brown, Arrivals and whatever conspiracy theory you can find and dredge up to this thread.

I never heard of that, is this really legit because I read this:

^This was from the book, Freemasonry for Dummies, that I mentioned earlier. The author is a Mason, so when you read the book, you are getting an understanding of their perspective. 

What they publicly write is a bunch of lies! I do NOT say that they are devil-worshippers,even if they are suspiciously fond of the morning star which brings light.....(the meaning of which I leave you to discover). But the fact that they believe in the presence of God in humans like kabbalist Jews do is enough for me to consider them filth.

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8 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

Please. There are people who have made researches about Freemasonry (including my humble self) and have written that they actually do have a theology even if they deny having one:they basically believe every man is godly and has to work on himself to become aware of his divine nature and thus be able to change the world. Since believing God in any shape or form is physically present in humans puts you out of Islam,a Muslim who becomes a Freemason is a murtad,whether you like it or not. I suggest you learn what Tawheed is,expecially in Shia Islam,and then come back without your feel-good/love-all attitude.

God breathed light of himself into all humans, per Quran. 

Ask them what they meant by Godly, because creation is the only thing we know that posseses freewill. that which we change the world using our will.

ask a freemason, dont assume.  if they say we are gods, and god is not one then you have your answers.   but last i checked, one god waa tgeir requirement. 

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@wmehar2: that's precisely the matter! The soul which God breathed in us is considered by kabbalist Jews and Freemasons as part of God Himself and not one of the things He created. Thus,they believe every human(this goes only for Freemasons,since Jews limit this "privilege" to Jews only) contains God and is Godly! But the sound and real view of this matter is that the soul is a creation of God just like anything else and that He created it in order for us to have feelings,fear of Him,etc. But it's a createdthing,not part of God Himself! It does not make us contain a part of God in ourselves and does not make us Godly!

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On 1/10/2018 at 1:13 AM, wmehar2 said:

God breathed light of himself into all humans, per Quran. 

That's not the truth:

Quran 15:29

And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration."

Soul was created by God, not part of God.

On 1/10/2018 at 1:13 AM, wmehar2 said:

ask a freemason, dont assume.

What kind of a logic is that, Why should we ask a Freemason?

Since when Freemason received revelation from God? 

By what proof God has gave them any information?

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3 hours ago, Arminmo said:

What kind of a logic is that, Why should we ask a Freemason?

The same logic when we ask a Shi'i about Shia Islam when people spew lies and conspiracy theories about Shias cursing Gabriel  for making the mistake of giving the prophethood to Muhammad(saws) and not Ali (as) or that Shias are satanic blood-drinkers.

Only a Freemason could tell you if something is true or not, furthermore Freemasonry is not a religion. It is basically a club of monotheistic men who believe in a Supreme Designer. But you don't care about that, you have made your mind up that they are in cahoots and working for Zionists

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4 hours ago, Arminmo said:

That's not the truth:

Quran 15:29

And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration."

Soul was created by God, not part of God.

What kind of a logic is that, Why should we ask a Freemason?

Since when Freemason received revelation from God? 

By what proof God has gave them any information?

Very well said!

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5 hours ago, Arminmo said:

That's not the truth:

Quran 15:29

And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration."

Soul was created by God, not part of God.

What kind of a logic is that, Why should we ask a Freemason?

Since when Freemason received revelation from God? 

By what proof God has gave them any information?

it literally says breathed in *my soul*, is that not something that belongs to God?

Are we not supposed to belong to God, are we not Slaves of Allah?

15:29

When I have shaped him, and breathed My spirit in him, fall you down, bowing before him!'

Why would iblis or angels be commanded by Allah to bow to anyone other than Allah? 

Allah asked iblis and all angels to bow to Allah's creation, of which Allah's spirit is in.

The plain simple Arabic is breathed *My spirit*

Look at at these varying translations!

Sahih International: And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration."

Pickthall: So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.

Yusuf Ali: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Shakir: So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down making obeisance to him.

Muhammad Sarwar: When it is properly shaped and I have blown My Spirit into it, you should then bow down in prostration".

Mohsin Khan: "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."

Arberry: When I have shaped him, and breathed My spirit in him, fall you down, bowing before him!'

Clay and and Allah's spirit, we both know this. 

Allah SWT says:

هُوَ الَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ مِّنْ طِينٍ ثُمَّ قَضٰىٓ أَجَلًا  ۖ  وَأَجَلٌ مُّسَمًّى عِنْدَهُۥ  ۖ  ثُمَّ أَنْتُمْ تَمْتَرُونَ
"It is He who created you from clay and then decreed a term and a specified time [known] to Him; then [still] you are in dispute."
(QS. Al-An'aam 6: Verse 2)

Allah shaped the clay.  Clay requires shaping whether literally or metaphorically. 

I dont see in the Arabic any suggestion Allah's breathe in this case is not part of him. 

I never suggested we ask a freemason to learn from Islam, only that you learn about a freemason from a freemason as @Gaius I. Caesar is saying. 

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On 1/6/2018 at 2:41 PM, AnotherShepherd said:

Hypothetically. 

Would it negate my identity as a Shi'i? 

Do you realise Freemasonry has roots within the Knights Templar and also Jewish Mysticism (Kabbalah)?

'Notwithstanding this clear separation of two distinct traditions, with different practices, Freemasonry and the Templar Order do share one significant “moment” of an intersecting point on the timeline of history, which created some shared affinities for ancient knowledge:  In the 15th century, surviving Templars taught stonemasons some Gothic building techniques and sacred geometry, which inspired the esoteric foundations of Freemasonry.

For this reason, the Masonic fraternity uses the honourary title of “Knights Templar” for its highest 33rd degree of initiation, in tribute to the earlier Templars.  Freemasonry was thus established approximately 330 years after the chivalric Knights Templar, making them separate organizations, each with their own unique heritage in its own right.'

Also, for example their cipher system, 'the pigpen cipher', which was an adaption of the Jewish Aiq Bkr square system, in which numbers are assigned to letters and also within shapes to hide meanings. The Knights Templar had adapted this first and then later Freemasonry adapted on the same principals.

Why would a Muslim want to be part of a secret society organisation which grew out of those who murdered Muslims?

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3 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

it literally says breathed in *my soul*, is that not something that belongs to God?

Are we not supposed to belong to God, are we not Slaves of Allah?

15:29

When I have shaped him, and breathed My spirit in him, fall you down, bowing before him!'

Why would iblis or angels be commanded by Allah to bow to anyone other than Allah? 

Allah asked iblis and all angels to bow to Allah's creation, of which Allah's spirit is in.

The plain simple Arabic is breathed *My spirit*

Look at at these varying translations!

Sahih International: And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration."

Pickthall: So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.

Yusuf Ali: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Shakir: So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down making obeisance to him.

Muhammad Sarwar: When it is properly shaped and I have blown My Spirit into it, you should then bow down in prostration".

Mohsin Khan: "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."

Arberry: When I have shaped him, and breathed My spirit in him, fall you down, bowing before him!'

Clay and and Allah's spirit, we both know this. 

Allah SWT says:

هُوَ الَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ مِّنْ طِينٍ ثُمَّ قَضٰىٓ أَجَلًا  ۖ  وَأَجَلٌ مُّسَمًّى عِنْدَهُۥ  ۖ  ثُمَّ أَنْتُمْ تَمْتَرُونَ
"It is He who created you from clay and then decreed a term and a specified time [known] to Him; then [still] you are in dispute."
(QS. Al-An'aam 6: Verse 2)

Allah shaped the clay.  Clay requires shaping whether literally or metaphorically. 

I dont see in the Arabic any suggestion Allah's breathe in this case is not part of him. 

I never suggested we ask a freemason to learn from Islam, only that you learn about a freemason from a freemason as @Gaius I. Caesar is saying. 

 I see that your view about Quran is this  : exact word by word translation, without reading Tafsir (interpretation) about the verse. ( like the other day, because of the word jesus does not exist, so it means he is not gonna return, among the billion Muslims, no person in the Sunni and Shia has Your view about Quran.

Edited by Arminmo

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15 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

And did this supreme designer give them ANY information?

It depends on which scripture they follow, the Jewish members follow the Torah, Christian members follow the Bible and the Muslim members follow the Quran, etc.

20 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

Or their roots is based on the changed religion called Judaism?

I wouldn't know about that but I would say that you could pose the question to a Mason and see what he says.

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4 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

Why would iblis or angels be commanded by Allah to bow to anyone other than Allah? 

 

4 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

to bow to Allah's creation, of which Allah's spirit is in.

You’ve got the story wrong.

Quran 2:31

وَعَلَّمَ آدَمَ الْأَسْمَاءَ كُلَّهَا ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُمْ عَلَى الْمَلَائِكَةِ فَقَالَ أَنْبِئُونِي بِأَسْمَاءِ هَٰؤُلَاءِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

 
 
Our superiority over other creation of god is one word:
عَلَّمَ
knowledge that we have, and they don’t.
 
Edited by Arminmo

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6 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It depends on which scripture they follow, the Jewish members follow the Torah, Christian members follow the Bible

If other religions follow them , it would be continuation of the wrong path that they were already in it.

 

7 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Muslim members

Why would a Muslim need to follow a freemason for practicing his religion?

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