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Guest Curious

Is Rape Allowed in Islam?

Hameedeh

Rape is a serious sexual crime which is punishable in Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Islamic_law  

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Guest Curious

As the question suggests.

Please provide evidence as much as possible, with a short answer of your own.

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1 minute ago, Mishael said:

There is only one Islam and yes those Hadiths are killing my Christian brothers but the ones who are doing it as I can see are the real Muslims because they follow their books to the word and are just doing as their religion commands and by the way these Hadiths are all agreed by most of the best of the Islamic ulema to be Sahih and transmitted correctly not all of Bukhari but most of it and neither did I say that all Sunni sources are trustworthy.

Make your own thread about this.

Edited by IbnSina

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Just now, Mishael said:

I guess the hate between Sunnis and Shias is mutual but not like I can expect better from Muslims or Islam.

Nah, don't generalize now, that is something uneducated do.

Not all sunnis are bad, I am talking about the preachers whom spread the lies. 

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2 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Him trying to explain sex slaves in his religion pretty much says it all.

Wait, have you ever seen a sex slave in this era? My religion teaches me to adapt to the country and the era I live in? 

Excluding daesh whom are mentally ill?

Why don't you have multiple wives like our prophets had? :/ Your answer will be this is a different age, this is the same thing. :/

Edited by Hamodiii

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15 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Like?

Juxtapose your earlier quote about Abu Bakr with these Bukhari references:

apPhp8n.jpg

nSEEU9E.jpg

The issue is not that we don’t like Bukhari, the issue is that the people who narrate have horrible reputations.

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1 minute ago, Mishael said:

Well all Sunnis like Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, and other Sahaba so you'd have to hate all of them.

I dislike them, they are the reason why Islam has so much hate at the moment.

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3 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Daesh is not doing different then what was done in the original Islamic conquests I'd be glad to here a few differences but unfortunately there aren't many. Quran doesn't say you can follow only some parts temporarily then later in history abrogate them in Islam there is no such thing as different age everything is literal.

You are comparing Deash to muslims, that is beyond comprehension.

If a man kills an innocent human, it is like he have killed the whole humanity, and what does Daesh do? Don't get me that they follow the Quran, they are following their desires.

Edited by Hamodiii

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1 hour ago, Mishael said:

Can you put me an English translation please I'm not so good in Arabic.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 004, Book 053, Hadith Number 325.

Narated By 'Aisha : (Mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Apostle which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Apostle used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to 'Ali and 'Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhrl said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
 
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Hadith 61

"Allah's Apostle said,"Fatima is a part of me and he who makes her angry, makes me angry.""

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2 hours ago, Mishael said:

Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.

Qur'an 9:14 

Im pretty sure this abrogates the old verses.

Brother, that was a command at that point, Allah didn't create us to spread war and blood?

Allah allowed Prophet Mohammed (as) to fight the mushrikeen, so what the point? 

You need to look at history as well? Is there any Shia muslims whom goes around killing? From what I know we are the ones being killed, by the west and by Sunnis. But you are heartless, and blind. 

Ya Hussein, Ya Ali.

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1 hour ago, Mishael said:

If you think only Islamic terrorism is done by Sunnis then you must really ignore all the Shia terrors groups rampaging in Iraq or Hezbollah interfering in Syria or how about Houthis...? Quran doesn't say anything was for that time everything in the Quran is to be interpreted literally nothing mentions that it will be for a short time.

You are brainwashed by media, wow. 

Brother, Hezbollah support palestine that is in majority a sunni country! I even saw a video about a palestine, who said ''Shia are kafir''. I got mad at first, but then I understood they were just ignorant, they don't know the truth. Unlike the Saudi Arabia that is the biggest Sunni country, who refuse do to anything, and they are near destruction. They will fall before Syria does!

Knowledge is not worth it without a wise mind, It can be used in wrong ways, just like how Christian church ruled the world. They abused religion to do whatever they want, and you are telling me that Shia muslims are bad? Only cause you are not doing it right now doesn't make christans any better. The middle east is just in an age of corruption, and you will see soon how we will surpass the west. 

All your knowledge are from us, and you dare to insult muslims. It is a shame.

 

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On 1/5/2018 at 3:20 AM, Guest Curious said:

As the question suggests.

Please provide evidence as much as possible, with a short answer of your own.

You must be crazy to ask this stupid question. 

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On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 7:05 AM, Mishael said:

Well I'm pretty sure you can rape your sex slaves in Islam.

Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek them from your property, desiring chastity, not fornication. So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due, but if you agree mutually after the requirement (has been determined), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Qur'an 4:24

Right hand possess means concubines if I'm not mistaken.

You still need their consent.  You also can't force a concubine, to be your concubine (4:19).  You're logic applied here does not follow,  if women are allowed whom your right hand possesses it does not insinuate rape.  It just means they are allowed to have sexual relations with them.

You're reading comprehension seems to be lacking, because you missed 4:24 "desiring chastity, not fornication".

Why haven't you read the verses just 5 verses previously (below)?

Quran 4:19

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.

If you cannot inherit a woman by force, you can't take her as a slave/sex slave or rape her.   Live with women in kindness, pretty sure that means you can't rape them.

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5 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Media? I had family that were in Lebanon during the time Hezbollah made a pointless war with Israel. Knowledge from Muslims. Muslims are the ones who forced us into the mountains and burned the library of Ctesiphon and Alexandria and by the way people like ibn Sina and Ibn Rushd weren't even Muslims infact all the Muslim freethinkers of the day were not devote Muslims and were considered as heretics by mot Muslims. The Syrian government is tyrannical but I would rather have them then Isis or Al Nusra or the so called Jaysh Al Hur. Palestine wasn't a country it's a geographic term but no Arab country called Palestine was in existence within that area. The Christian Church bad but the Chuch does not equal Christ. No, most Palestinians hate Shias so why waste your time supporting people who hate you? Saudi Arabia learned not to mess with Israel which is a wise decision and they're starting to realize hating Israel isn't going to fix anything Middle East went backwards ever since the Islamic conquests in mindset. By the way fun fact Muslims actually slowed the renaissance since they occupation of Spain kept the Europeans focused on more wars but in a way Muslims started it since they conquered Constantinople and the Greek Byzantine scholars that fled the tyranny of the Ottomans spread their knowledge to all of Europe so I think for that I should thank Muslims.

Isreal are your hero? Why are you defending a country that shouldn't exist? Or rather a country that doesn't exist? It is called PALESTINE for god sake, and why would Hezbollah go on a war against PALESTINE? I bet they had a reason to go to war against tyrants, that we call Zionists. And do you expect no blood in war? What is your head? People die, we won't live forever, you know? :/ 

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On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:20 AM, Guest Curious said:

As the question suggests.

Please provide evidence as much as possible, with a short answer of your own.

No.

Quran 4:19

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.

quran 24:33

And let those who find not the means to marry be abstinent till God enriches them of His bounty. Those your right hands own who seek emancipation, contract with them accordingly, if you know some good in them; and give them of the wealth of God that He has given you. And constrain not your slave-girls to prostitution, if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek the chance goods of the present life. Whosoever constrains them, surely God, after their being constrained, is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

If God wants women who want to not fornicate (despite they're being slaves) aka be chaste, then what makes you think raping them is allowed @Mishael?

It also says if your slaves want freedom, give it to them through contract; even give them some money when you free them.

Edited by wmehar2

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23 minutes ago, Mishael said:

"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an 33:50

If you take a women in war then it's not considered rape as we see here. That verse is talking about women you marry if she's your concubine you don't need her permission for intercourse.

Taking a woman from war,  does not constitute rape nor inheriting them by compulsion.   Women need protectors/guardians....   Maybe you don't understand historic Arabia and how the place/roes of women were.

They needed to be cared for, if you kill their husbands/protectors in war, then you are responsible for them.  It doesn't mean you are entitled to rape them.  I literally gave you TWO verse that are quite clear you cannot force sex on them in ANY capacity including slavery EXPLICITLY.

There is no way you can presume rape is allowed on women unless you want to hide the rest of the Quran and have a thirst for rape, or just want Islam to look bad.  It's a non-sequitur, your argument.  Let's not kid ourselves.

please read 24:33 again.

And let those who find not the means to marry be abstinent till God enriches them of His bounty. Those your right hands own who seek emancipation, contract with them accordingly, if you know some good in them; and give them of the wealth of God that He has given you. And constrain not your slave-girls to prostitution, if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek the chance goods of the present life. Whosoever constrains them, surely God, after their being constrained, is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

slave women don't have means to marry, they count as that group.   TWICE it's emphasized to leave them chaste away from unlawful sex outside MARRIAGE.

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11 minutes ago, Mishael said:

How Arabia was or was not doesn't matter since we're talking about Mohammed who is supposedly the greatest example so he must be perfect and secondly https://islamqa.info/en/13737 doesn't mention that you need your slave girls permission at all.

1.  You are not applying serious reading comprehension or logical reasoning abilities..  The link you provided asks about intimacy with a slave being allowed, not forcible rape, Consensual sex and permissibility of it is a separate entity altogether.  It is not talking about RAPE.  They're not even discussing rape, because it is obvious from Qu'ran you cannot rape a woman slave or free or married.

2.  Islamqa is not what I follow.  If some BS Hadith that say rape is allowed contradicts the Qu'ran then therefore not authentic and should not be part of religion.  Though Islamqa in this case isn't arguing the permissibility of rape.  Islamqa is not a source of knowledge in Islam for me, sorry.  I don't think it is for any Shia' muslim on here either. 

I'm bordering on thinking you are not someone I can have an open discussion with if you're not taking this conversation seriously. I may take  @Hamodiii's stance and just end this discussion with you as you refuse to actually care to consider the possibility that you're ill-informed or not correct in this.

The verses clearly command us to give slave women their chastity/abstinence if they desire it and not to force them to prostitution.  If the slave girl is a Christian or Jew etc., we cannot make her violate God's laws that they follow (which is sent down by the same God as us).  That is why God protects them and says if a slave (who may be people of scripture) is raped/forced to prostitution against their will, God will forgive them and not hold it accountable to them (this verse implies that the verse isn't just towards muslims).

Edited by wmehar2

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I have absolutely no problème problems with non Muslims on this forum who are respectful but I think most people would be agree with me if I think this irrespectful zindiq called Mishael must be banned from this forum without question. 

@Qa'im 

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9 minutes ago, Mishael said:

And what if that slave girl is a pagan such as a non kitabi who was captured in war.

She still as a right to her chastity if she desires based on the verses I shown you.  It's regardless who she is/what she is.   If she doesn't desire abstinence/chastity and is a slave girl then it's on her if I read this correctly.

A pagan slave woman who desires chastity is desiring something good even if she doesn't follow God's laws.  That's how you introduce God/religion to them to begin with.  There is no compulsion in religion remember so if she is a pagan, we can't choose to rape her (like ISIS/Da3sh seems to think they can do with non kitabi people).  Because that would put pressure on the girl.

It makes all sorts of fantastic logical sense.

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2 minutes ago, Mishael said:

I find the notion of asking permission to have intercourse with a sex slave pretty contradictory if your already allowed to have a sex slave but I will look into this further and I will check some leading scholars opinions on these verses thanks.

That is because you're understanding of slave is different from our understanding.

Slave is not a slave in the same sense, it is more of a servant.  A servant you take care of and takes care of you and you have a contract.  They're still entitled to dignity.  Slavery after Islam transformed from what you colloquially understand as slavery (Africans coming to the US). 

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12 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Actually do you know who sold the Europeans the African slaves?

Listen @Mishael

You and I can agree muslims don't all follow Qu'ran.  Just because Arab Muslims or other muslims from ethnic groups did something, doesn't mean they did it by God's Law.

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1 minute ago, Mishael said:

Ever heard of the Arab slave trade?

Arab =/= Islam. True Islamic rule died after the prophet, revived by Imam Ali, died after Imam Ali. Anything other than that you can't pin on Islam because it is the Islam of the people, not Islam of Allah. So you have to see how both characters treated slaves during their time to know how Islamic "slaves" were treated.

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6 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Well that seems kind of a one sided argument since Sunnis believe real Islam was also under the four Khalifas but if that's the case then I can't argue.

Yeah well here's something interesting the Sunnis believe in:

Quote

Abu Bakrah ath-Thaqafi (may Allāh be pleased with him) reported – The Prophet ṣallallāhu 'alayhi wa sallam (peace and blessings of Allāh be upon him) said “If two Muslims meet each other with their swords, then both the killer and the killed will be in the Hell-fire.” I said, “O Allāh’s Messenger, that is the case for the killer but why should that be the case for the killed?” He answered, “Because he wanted to kill his companion.” [Al-Bukhari & Muslim]

So why do Sunnis say (RA) to both "companions" that fought and one of them got killed at the hand of another?

Full of contradictions.

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