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40 minutes ago, Jin Jin said:

Why America hates communism?

Communism is totally wrong, according to this 1931 essay by Hamilton Fish, Jr.

Quote

All Communists, whether they live in Moscow or Berlin or Paris or New York or Los Angeles or Tokyo, believe in the same fundamental principles.

Now, what are those principles? First, the abolition of all forms of religious belief. Second, the abolition of all forms of private property and inheritance. Third, the promotion of the bitterest kind of class hatred of a certain part of the working class against all other classes. Fourth, the promotion through the Communist International in foreign countries, of strikes, riots, sabotage, and industrial unrest. Fifth, the promotion of class or civil war in order to obtain the objective, which is, sixth, the establishment of a Soviet form of government, the dictatorship of the proletariat, with headquarters in Moscow. 

The Menace of Communism.

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4 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Now, what are those principles? First, the abolition of all forms of religious belief. Second, the abolition of all forms of private property and inheritance. Third, the promotion of the bitterest kind of class hatred of a certain part of the working class against all other classes. Fourth, the promotion through the Communist International in foreign countries, of strikes, riots, sabotage, and industrial unrest. Fifth, the promotion of class or civil war in order to obtain the objective, which is, sixth, the establishment of a Soviet form of government, the dictatorship of the proletariat, with headquarters in Moscow. 

These are principles of Marxism-Leninism and  Stalinism, and not necessarily true Marxism. Only they wanted this...

 

Here's a different persceptive, but still anti-communist:

Quote

Actually, although the communist system has treated several inflictions of free capitalism by abolishing private ownership, such a treatment has had some natural consequences which have made such a treatment very costly and the method to put it to use very exerting and cannot be used except when all other ways and methods fail. On the other hand, it is an incomplete treatment which does not guar­antee the eradication of social corruption, for it has not really been successful in its diagnosis of the ail­ment and the discovery of the point from which evil has set out to subjugate the world to the capitalist system, keeping that point maintaining its position in the social life of the communist creed. There­fore, mankind has not won a definite solution to his greatest problem, nor has he obtained the medicine to medicate his ailments and uproot his sickening symptoms.

As regarding the consequences of this treatment, they are, indeed, great: They can put an end to the freedom of individuals for the sake of substituting communist ownership for private ownership. The case is so because this tremendous social change contra­dicts the general human nature upto, at least, the pre­sent time, as its promoters admit, since materialistic man still thinks subjectively, calculating his interests through his own limited individualistic eyes.

Estab­lishing a new structure for the society in which the individuals dissolve completely, a structure which totally puts an end to personal motives, requires a strong power to hold the society's reins with iron hands, suppressing any resisting voice, strangulating any opposition, monopolizing all means of news media and the press, enforcing a belt around the nation nobody can by any means go beyond, and becoming habituated to charging and doubting, so that the rein of authority may not suddenly slip out of its hands.

This is natural in every system desired to be imposed on the nation before the mentality of such a system ripens in it and its spirit prevails. Yes, if materialistic man starts reasoning social­ly, realizing his interests in a social mentality, with his own personal feelings, desires and inclinations melting through his own self, then a system in which individ­uals "melt" can be established, leaving in the arena none but as huge “social” giant.

But the achievement of this in the materialistic man, who does not believe except in a limited life without knowing any meaning for it except materialistic pleasures, needs a miracle to create paradise on earth and to bring it down from hea­ven. The communists promise us such a paradise, wait­ing for that day when the factory changes the human nature, creating him anew with idealistic thoughts and deeds even if he does not believe the weight of an atom in ideal values or ethical principles. If such a miracle happens, then we will have a talk with them.

As for the time being, the position of the social structure which they desire calls for the confinement of individuals within the limits of this structure's idea and its guarantee for protection by the group that believes in it and using caution concerning it by sup­pressing the human nature and the psychological emotions, forbidding them by all possible means from setting themselves free.

Even when he wins a total assurance and a social guarantee of his livelihood and needs, for the social wealth provides him with all of these during the time of need, the individual who lives in the shade of a system like this will be better off if he can get such an assurance without losing the pleasure of breathing the fresh air of cultivated freedom rather than being forced to melt his personality in fire and drown him­self in the tumultuous social sea.

How can he have a desire for freedom, in any field, when he is deprived of freedom in livelihood, while sustaining his life is totally tied to a particular "committee", although economic and sustain­ing freedom is the basis of all other norms of free­dom? The advocates answer this question by still asking: "What can man do with freedom and enjoyment of his right to criticize and publicize his opin­ions while moaning under a horrible social burden? What benefit can his discussion and opposition bring him when he needs accurate nutrition and guaranteed life more than opposition or the fuss freedom brings him?"

Those who ask such questions look only at capi­talist democracy as if it is the only social issue which competes with their own in the field; therefore, they underestimate the value of the individual dignity and its rights, for they see it as a menace to the general social torrent. But humanity has the right not to sacrifice any of its principles or privileges as long as it does not have to. It has but to choose either a dignity which is an ideal privilege of humanity, and a need which is its materialistic privilege, only if it lacks the system which can combine both aspects and succeed in solving both problems.

The man whose energy is being squeezed by others, without finding a good and comfortable life or a fair salary and an assurance during the time of need, is indeed one deprived of enjoying life, separated from a stable and quiet life. Also, a man threatened every moment, questioned about every movement, liable to be arrested without a trial and be imprisoned, banished or even killed for any reason, is indeed one who lives in fear and ter­ror; horror forbids him from enjoying the pleasures of this life.

The third man, the one whose life is comfort­able, feeling assured of preserving his dignity and safety, is indeed humanity's sweet dream. So, how can such a dream become a reality? When will it become an existing actuality? We have said above that the communist solution to the social problem is incomplete, in addition to its consequences to which we have also referred. For he, although human emotions and feelings breathe within him, is evoked by the general social pressure which caused some thinkers to resort to the new solution, but they did not put their hands on the causes of corruption so that they could eradicate it; rather, they eradicated something else; therefore, they were not successful in their medication.

The concept of private ownership is not the one responsible for the sins of absolute capitalism which shook the world and its felicity, so much so that it is not the one that forces millions of labourers to be idle for the sake of the investment of a new machine which put an end to their industry, as it happened at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, nor is it the one that forces the capitalist to destroy large quantities of his products in order to maintain their price and in preference of extravagance to satisfy the need of the poor thereby.

Nor is it the one that invites him to make his wealth a gaining capital multiplied through usury, absorbing the civilians' endeavour without production or toil. Nor is it the one that pushes him to buy all consumption goods from the market in order to monopolize them and raise their prices. Nor is it the one that forces him to open new markets, even when the freedom and rights of nations will be violated by them and their prestige and freedom weakened. All of these terrifying calamities have not re­sulted from private ownership; rather, they are the breed of the materialistic individual interest which has been made the criterion of life in the capitalist system and the absolute reason for all acts and deal­ings.

When a society is based on such an individual criterion which is self-advocate, nothing can be ex­pected from it except what has already befallen. It is from the nature of this criterion that all curses and calamities befall the entire human race, not from the principle of private ownership. If the criterion is changed, and a new cultivated objective for life is put forth, one that harmonizes with the human nature, only then will the real remedy of the greatest human problem become a reality.

https://www.al-islam.org/contemporary-man-and-the-social-problem-muhammad-baqir-as-sadr/socialism-and-communism#communism-criticized

This is from Ayatullah Muhammad Baqir as-Sadr (ra), note how alarmist and propaganda-like Hamilton Fish Jr's writing is compared to as-Sadr's? As-Sadr has given a pretty solid analysis and well thought out answer to communism.

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26 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Here's a different perspective, but still anti-communist:

https://www.al-islam.org/contemporary-man-and-the-social-problem-muhammad-baqir-as-sadr/socialism-and-communism#communism-criticized

This is from Ayatullah Muhammad Baqir as-Sadr (ra), note how alarmist and propaganda-like Hamilton Fish Jr's writing is compared to as-Sadr's? As-Sadr has given a pretty solid analysis and well thought out answer to communism.

Yes, the American essay from 1931 is a propaganda piece, stating why Communism is a menace to society from a politician's perspective. Of course the analysis of Ayatullah Baqir Sadr RA is not only from modern time but from an Islamic perspective. Very much enjoyed reading this. Thank you. :)  

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2 hours ago, Jin Jin said:

Why America hates communism?

America is a capitalist oligarchy where corporations control the political system essentially. Countries that have communist types of policies prevent the US corporations from having access to them and thus they are disliked. This isn't to say communism is good or anything, but this is why the US hates it. Both systems suck to be honest, capitalism is corporate tyranny and communism is state tyranny. Social democracies are the best form of government in my view, a heavily regulated private sector and a state sector too providing benefits, offering things like education, healthcare, etc. 

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The main critique is that pure communism negates all identifies other than the class identity, which is based off materialism. Other identities are considered bothersome, deviant, and worthless. These include religious, nationalist, racial, ethnic, philosophical, etc. That doesn't sit well with many in this diverse world. 

Which explains why many communist movements, in order to gain legitimacy, had to latch on and accomodate other identifies (religious, national, etc) to become more palatable in the societies they surfaced. It had to tip-toe around every culture it met. 

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Communism doesn't really work unless it's a very small society. Also, I read The Principles of Communism, by Friedrich Engels, and it didn't sit well with me. It seemed unjust.

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28 minutes ago, notme said:

Communism doesn't really work unless it's a very small society. Also, I read The Principles of Communism, by Friedrich Engels, and it didn't sit well with me. It seemed unjust.

That's even if the small society can be controlled. I believe it all depends on who is with you in this communist society because naturally a lot of humans want more than others and seek to be better than others which is why human nature in communism can make it problematic. Even in the USSR soviet officials lived much better than most citizens which is very hypocritical considering its a nation claiming equality for all. 

 

Its also dangerous for capitalism considering the amount of resources we are using today just for luxurious items is shockingly high and this isn't spread around for all people but only those who can afford it because i know some who cannot even pay for essential items like food, shelter and water. 

Edited by Wholehearted Shi'a

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4 hours ago, myouvial said:

What is the tenet of communism and capitalism ?

Comparing to religion or even shi'a ahlul bayt a.s., where is the position of those two ?

Neither capitalism or communism are compatible with most religious systems, especially the Abrahamic tradition. 

Neither put any relevance to God, and address only man's relationship with others and of the material world. Religion is only tolerated and accommodated in its most sterile form. 

The centrality of profit-seeking and class struggle for humanity is misguided, and ignores many ethical, metaphysical, and temporal realities.  

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