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Salaam, I was wondering if I could use a small rock from outside as a turbah or if there is anything else I would be able to use. I'm not sure where to buy one in stores around me and I can't buy one online as my parents will find out (they don't accept Islam and would punish me if they knew). Please let me know, thank you!

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4 minutes ago, fountain said:

Salaam, I was wondering if I could use a small rock from outside as a turbah or if there is anything else I would be able to use. I'm not sure where to buy one in stores around me and I can't buy one online as my parents will find out (they don't accept Islam and would punish me if they knew). Please let me know, thank you!

Yes, just wash and dry the rock off before you use it as a turbah. You can also use a piece of wood, if there are no splinters. Paper is always available.

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7 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Yes, just wash and dry the rock off before you use it as a turbah. You can also use a piece of wood, if there are no splinters. Paper is always available.

Thank you for the reply! Would I have to wash the rock every time before I use it?

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Al-Salamu Alaykum

This is the correct fatwa;

1085. Sajdah should be performed on earth, and on those things which are not edible nor worn, and on things which grow from earth (e.g. wood and leaves of trees). It is not permissible to perform Sajdah on things which are used as food or dress (e.g. wheat, barley and cotton etc.), or on things which are not considered to be parts of the earth (e.g. gold, silver, etc.). And in the situation of helplessness, asphalt and tar will have preference over other non-allowable things.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2224/

14 minutes ago, starlight said:

Salam,

You can use a leaf (one that is not eaten) or a paper(but not tissue paper),flower (not edible ones) or you can also do sajdah on the back of your hand. 

He can pray on a tissue if he knows the tissue is made from something that grows from Earth (trees). And the same thing for paper.

As for back of the hand, I do not know who told you this sister, but that is only if there is nothing he can pray on, not something he can do out of the blue.

Edited by Sumerian

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9 minutes ago, fountain said:

Thank you for the reply! Would I have to wash the rock every time before I use it?

If you keep the rock in your room, it's still clean so you don't need to wash it again. If you get a new rock, then wash that one.

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2 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

If you keep the rock in your room, it's still clean so you don't need to wash it again. If you get a new rock, then wash that one.

I don't know who told you sister you must wash the rock. You don't have to wash anything.

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27 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

As for back of the hand, I do not know who told you this sister,

Sistani 

If a person does not possess anything on which it is allowed to perform Sajdah, or, even if he possesses such a thing, he cannot perform Sajdah on it due to severe heat or cold, he should perform Sajdah on asphalt or tar, and if that is not possible, on his dress or the back of his hand, 

A molana from Iraq, a senior one,told me that's it shouldn't be done on tissue paper since some of the tissue paper these days is made out of some of the same material as used for clothing so better to refrain from it.

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5 hours ago, Sumerian said:

I don't know who told you sister you must wash the rock. You don't have to wash anything.

@Sumerian If you get a rock from your garden and it has bird poop on it, wouldn't you wash it first?

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4 hours ago, starlight said:

Sistani 

If a person does not possess anything on which it is allowed to perform Sajdah, or, even if he possesses such a thing, he cannot perform Sajdah on it due to severe heat or cold, he should perform Sajdah on asphalt or tar, and if that is not possible, on his dress or the back of his hand, 

A molana from Iraq, a senior one,told me that's it shouldn't be done on tissue paper since some of the tissue paper these days is made out of some of the same material as used for clothing so better to refrain from it.

Salam sister, this ruling is only for a person who does not possess anything that is allowed to be prostrated on, or he does possess such a thing but cannot prostrate it on it due to unbearable hardship. This ruling doesn't apply to the OP because he is able to get a rock/leaf from outside and use them. 

Another thing, all tissue paper (atleast in the west) are made out of trees just like paper which means it is permissible to prostrate on it.

Edited by Hassan-

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1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

Salam sister, this ruling is only for a person who does not possess anything that is allowed to be prostrated on, or he does possess such a thing but cannot prostrate it on it due to unbearable hardship.

I know. I am the one who posted the ruling which says that! The OP fears punishment from his family if they know about his religion so it's good for him to know this in cases he thinks someone might walk in while he is praying. 

About the tissue paper, the Molana who told me does live in the west but if you want to follow your own judgement in this case it's okay. I just told the OP what he told me.

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21 minutes ago, starlight said:

I know. I am the one who posted the ruling which says that! The OP fears punishment from his family if they know about his religion so it's good for him to know this in cases he thinks someone might walk in while he is praying. 

But you never said that in your first post, all you told the OP was that he's allowed to prostrate on the back of his hand. If he read that without clarification, he would actually believe prostrating on the back of the hand is fine even if wasn't facing unbearable hardship. Prostrating on the back of your hand is the LAST resort, there are a million other things he can do, such as he can hold a piece of paper tissue in his hand and when he's about to prostrate he can put it on the ground and prostrate on it, then pick it back up again and hold it in his hand.

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6 hours ago, starlight said:

Sistani 

If a person does not possess anything on which it is allowed to perform Sajdah, or, even if he possesses such a thing, he cannot perform Sajdah on it due to severe heat or cold, he should perform Sajdah on asphalt or tar, and if that is not possible, on his dress or the back of his hand, 

A molana from Iraq, a senior one,told me that's it shouldn't be done on tissue paper since some of the tissue paper these days is made out of some of the same material as used for clothing so better to refrain from it.

Sister, did you read the fatwa you just posted? 

And this is what I said;

As for back of the hand, I do not know who told you this sister, but that is only if there is nothing he can pray on, not something he can do out of the blue.

6 hours ago, starlight said:

A molana from Iraq, a senior one,told me that's it shouldn't be done on tissue paper since some of the tissue paper these days is made out of some of the same material as used for clothing so better to refrain from it.

This rule is for both normal paper and tissue paper. One has to know they are made from natural things which grow from Earth.

6 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

@Sumerian If you get a rock from your garden and it has bird poop on it, wouldn't you wash it first?

Sister, you need to be specific when handling Fiqh laws. You don't tell someone to wash their rock as if it is an obligation or a ritual, you tell them to do it for the sake of cleanliness (nadhafa).

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11 hours ago, fountain said:

Would I have to wash the rock every time before I use it?

 

11 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

If you keep the rock in your room, it's still clean so you don't need to wash it again. If you get a new rock, then wash that one.

 

11 hours ago, Sumerian said:

I don't know who told you sister you must wash the rock. You don't have to wash anything.

 

10 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

@Sumerian If you get a rock from your garden and it has bird poop on it, wouldn't you wash it first?

 

4 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Sister, you need to be specific when handling Fiqh laws. You don't tell someone to wash their rock as if it is an obligation or a ritual, you tell them to do it for the sake of cleanliness (nadhafa).

This topic is not in the Jurisprudence/Laws but in the Theology and General Religion subforum. However, due to your request, I will abide by your suggestion.

@fountain Although every marja will tell you that you need to put your forehead on a clean, pure place when you pray, this is why I told you to wash a rock (if you don't have a clay turbah) and dry it before you use it for your prayer, not as a ritual but as a matter of law. This is the link to the religious law by my marja, Ayatullah Khamenei, who says the place of prostration (where you put your forehead) must be pure, meaning tahir or clean.

Q 375: The place we perform prayer is not pure but the place of prostration is. Is our prayer correct?
A: If the najāsah of the place does not transfer to one’s clothes or body and the place of prostration is pure, there will be no problem in performing prayer there.

At the link, click on Prayer then click on The Place of Praying.

http://www.leader.ir/en/book/32/Practical-Laws-of-Islam?sn=5259

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I posted the ruling to clarify my initial post. Don't know why you still have a problem with it. Sajdah on back of hand or on his dress is an option given by a Marjah under certain conditions and it's good for the OP to know about it. 

@Hassan- @Sumerian

Also there is nothing wrong to wash the stone or rock or flower or leaf. No one implied here its wajib.Common sense dictates that if there is some nijasa on it you will want to wash it. 

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Sorry, OT, but this thread reminds me of something. Dunno if I have mentioned it before.

While in Iraq a few years ago I was invited home by a local who I knew through a mutual connection. I didn't know whether the person who was inviting me back was Shia or Sunni. Anyway, the time came for salat and he got out the prayer mat, he then went to another drawer to get out a turbah.

Maybe I am a lazy slob and perhaps the people I know are as well, but usually we'd keep both things together. Anyway, it suggested to me that he was a Sunni, which turned out to be the case.

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4 hours ago, starlight said:

I posted the ruling to clarify my initial post. Don't know why you still have a problem with it. Sajdah on back of hand or on his dress is an option given by a Marjah under certain conditions and it's good for the OP to know about it. 

@Hassan- @Sumerian

Also there is nothing wrong to wash the stone or rock or flower or leaf. No one implied here its wajib.Common sense dictates that if there is some nijasa on it you will want to wash it. 

You should have clarified it in your first post. Maybe you know the brother and you are answering him according to his situation, but his question was general, so if someone went by this thread in order to get the answer, he would think praying on the back of their hand is allowed with no conditions.

 

As for washing the rock, look how the brother understood it;

16 hours ago, fountain said:

Thank you for the reply! Would I have to wash the rock every time before I use it?

Almost like a ritual where he has to wash it every single time.

One should say "if it has najasa, then wash it". It's called being clear when mentioning matters of law so as to not confuse people.

6 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

 

 

 

 

This topic is not in the Jurisprudence/Laws but in the Theology and General Religion subforum. However, due to your request, I will abide by your suggestion.

@fountain Although every marja will tell you that you need to put your forehead on a clean, pure place when you pray, this is why I told you to wash a rock (if you don't have a clay turbah) and dry it before you use it for your prayer, not as a ritual but as a matter of law. This is the link to the religious law by my marja, Ayatullah Khamenei, who says the place of prostration (where you put your forehead) must be pure, meaning tahir or clean.

Q 375: The place we perform prayer is not pure but the place of prostration is. Is our prayer correct?
A: If the najāsah of the place does not transfer to one’s clothes or body and the place of prostration is pure, there will be no problem in performing prayer there.

At the link, click on Prayer then click on The Place of Praying.

http://www.leader.ir/en/book/32/Practical-Laws-of-Islam?sn=5259

Thank you

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7 hours ago, Sumerian said:

As for washing the rock, look how the brother understood it;

She is a sister. :) 

7 hours ago, Sumerian said:

One should say "if it has najasa, then wash it". It's called being clear when mentioning matters of law so as to not confuse people.

She asked a question and I answered her. This is a discussion board and everyone cannot reply the same as you would. We try our best. :) 

7 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Thank you

You're welcome. :) 

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