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Sumerian

Iraq not part of any axis

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1 minute ago, Sumerian said:

You forget Iraq was living for decades even before good relations with Iran... our strength comes from our people and if our people stop fighting each other then we can rise again.

We are talking about today's Iraq and not the 1950s Iraq. 
Iraq will always be rejected by Kurds for obvious reasons. Iraq will always be rejected by the Arab world so long as the Shias have any say in Iraq's affairs. So the only way that Iraq could be at peace is to let go of Kurds and put in power another Sunni Saddam 2.0.....because unlike others Iran would not launch proxy war against Iraq because it has a Sunni govt....because because Iran has no problem with all its other Sunni neighbours and Sunni govts due to them being Sunni.

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3 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

We are talking about today's Iraq and not the 1950s Iraq. 
Iraq will always be rejected by Kurds for obvious reasons. Iraq will always be rejected by the Arab world so long as the Shias have any say in Iraq's affairs. So the only way that Iraq could be at peace is to let go of Kurds and put in power another Sunni Saddam 2.0.....because unlike others Iran would not launch proxy war against Iraq because it has a Sunni govt....because because Iran has no problem with all its other Sunni neighbours and Sunni govts due to them being Sunni.

Kurdish politicians can scream succession for ever and they have been ever since the 50s. Nothing has happened.

In fact, the Kurdish rulers, if anything, have been weakened politically ever since the ISIS thing. And the Iraqi state has only strengthened.

Iraq will force the Arab world into accepting it, whether they like it or not. They know if they push us, it will only lead us to go to Iran more, and they don't want that, which is why it is them, not us, that are proposing improving relations.

Furthermore Lebanon is accepted among the Arab world despite their arguably being a stronger Iranian and Shi'a influence there, at least militarily.

I personally don't care who rules Iraq even if it is a Sunni or a Kurdish brother, at the end of the day they are Iraqi like me. I just want a just system with a working economy and a secure and safe country. And of course I want Iraq to remain friends with Iran and Syria, and me personally (I don't know about the government) - I would want closer relations with them than the traitors who claim they are our Arab brothers but they have stabbed us in the back numerously. 

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You force the Arab world, an entity that unleashed ISIS on Iraqis, to accept you with the ultimatum that if you dont accept us we will go to Iran...just take a minute or 40 and think about this. Cuz from what it seems you refuse to get it. I see this view as spineless and irrational.

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9 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

You force the Arab world, an entity that unleashed ISIS on Iraqis, to accept you with the ultimatum that if you dont accept us we will go to Iran...just take a minute or 40 and think about this. Cuz from what it seems you refuse to get it. I see this view as spineless and irrational.

What you seem to misunderstand is that Iraq can become powerful enough to have its say in the Arab world and and to be a leader in that world. Right now the Arab world is basically a Saudi entity, that's not how it was in the 60s or 70s or 80s. Egypt, Iraq, Syria, all these countries could care less what Saudi Arabia had to say, because they themselves had their own influence in the Arab world. Egypt had North African allies, Syria had Lebanese allies, and Iraq had Yemeni allies. All I'm saying is Iraq, if it can fix its internal issues, can return to that state, where it can be a leader among Arabs.

It seems you are incapable of seeing Iraq strengthen, ever. Like I said, it all depends on fixing internal issues.

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3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, ISIS from what I understand, was neutralized by Russia in Syria and the Iraqi military in Iraq. The Iraqi government doesn't need American or Iranian interference in their affairs. I can guarantee you that it was a waste of tax money and resources for Iran. You seem to think that I am stupid or something.

I did not expect this from you Gaius, you're better then this. 3 pages of this topic of people explaining and you are still in denial that Iraq was highly dependent on foreign intervention (Iran & Hezbollah). You're disrespecting all the non-Iraqi martyrs that died trying to liberate Iraq from ISIS, ones that planned and took charge in liberating Mosul and other areas in Iraq. 

Edited by Hassan-

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3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, ISIS from what I understand, was neutralized by Russia in Syria and the Iraqi military in Iraq. The Iraqi government doesn't need American or Iranian interference in their affairs. I can guarantee you that it was a waste of tax money and resources for Iran. You seem to think that I am stupid or something.

Yes, from what you understand but that is not the case.

And yes, the Iraqi government most certainly needed the Iranian help, go back and see the news from when ISIS was few kilometers from Baghdad (the seat of the government) go back and read the news about how Iraq was about split up by kurdistan, see who stopped that.

You can not guarantee me anything because you do not know what you are talking about as evident by the statement I have quoted from you and I do not think you are stupid, I just think you lack information about how the Iranian government in many ways saved Iraq.

As far as Russia goes, it is only concerned about fighting America over power/influence, nothing ells.

As far as Iran SAVING Iraq, take it from the mouth of the Iraqis themselves:

 

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2 hours ago, Sumerian said:

What you seem to misunderstand is that Iraq can become powerful enough to have its say in the Arab world and and to be a leader in that world. Right now the Arab world is basically a Saudi entity, that's not how it was in the 60s or 70s or 80s. Egypt, Iraq, Syria, all these countries could care less what Saudi Arabia had to say, because they themselves had their own influence in the Arab world. Egypt had North African allies, Syria had Lebanese allies, and Iraq had Yemeni allies. All I'm saying is Iraq, if it can fix its internal issues, can return to that state, where it can be a leader among Arabs.

It seems you are incapable of seeing Iraq strengthen, ever. Like I said, it all depends on fixing internal issues.

ISIS wants to bring back the world 1400 years and you also want to bring back the non-existent imaginary status of 1960s Iraq. To say the very least- its impossible.

There are 2 camps in the ME at the moment. One's survival & prosperity depends on peace and security, while the other bloc has to depend on launching wars to keep their status quo. Immaterial countries like Jordan or Sudan and to a certain extent Oman will be allowed to stay neutral...countries with natural resources is up for grabs...so Iraq has to choose whether its survival depends on launching wars or in peace...
The only thing Iraq has going for it are its oil wells and Iranian alliance...otherwise MBS would have long made Abadi resign from Riyadh.

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4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, ISIS from what I understand, was neutralized by Russia in Syria and the Iraqi military in Iraq. The Iraqi government doesn't need American or Iranian interference in their affairs. I can guarantee you that it was a waste of tax money and resources for Iran. You seem to think that I am stupid or something.

It seems youre the only reasonable one here brother

3 hours ago, Wahdat said:

And my guess is that it will be a weak country without Iran because its strength today comes only from Iran and not Iraq itself.

What are you talking about brother Iraq always survived after the American invasion by its self before the Iranians wanted to acknowledge our problems by 2014 but by then it was too late.

 

3 hours ago, Sumerian said:

If Iraq can achieve reconcilation between sects and ethnic groups and tribal groups, economic progression, centralisation of state, improvement of security, then this won't happen. 

 

Beautifully put brother we as Iraqis need peace between each other and acknowledge the voice of minorities before we can move on with other problems the plague our miserable nation 

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36 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

you are still in denial that Iraq was highly dependent on foreign intervention (Iran & Hezbollah). 

I am not in denial of anything, I know that there were volunteers but Sumerian is right, wanting to sort out internal issues is not and shouldn't be seen as rebellious ingratitude.  It is crazy talk to assume otherwise.

What favour is Iraq expected to do for Iran? Why should Iraq be punished for wanting stability?

@IbnSina I will watch the videos when I have a chance and will share my thoughts, insha'Allah.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
Clarity

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1 minute ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I am not in denial of anything, I know that there were volunteers but Sumerian is right, wanting to sort out internal issues is not and shouldn't be seen as rebellious ingratitude.  It is crazy talk to assume otherwise.

What favour is Iraq expected to do for Iran? 

Iran did not ask Iraq for any favours so Iraq doesn't technically owe Iran anything. But the least you can do is acknowledge the fact that Iraq needed Iran more than ever to defeat ISIS, but instead you say things like "ISIS was neutralized by the Iraqi military in Iraq. The Iraqi government doesn't need Iranian interference in their affairs."

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1 minute ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

What favour is Iraq expected to do for Iran? 

Brother like I told Sumerian before I'll say again to a similar question,

"They think we owe them our support linguistically, politically, and most importantly militarily. Even though they didnt do anything expect sit on their thrones in Tehran and speak empty talk like usual."

So in other words they're hall way bullies that want our money for so called protecting us from bigger bullies and the fact we're related in some way (majority Shia)

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6 minutes ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Brother like I told Sumerian before I'll say again to a similar question,

"They think we owe them our support linguistically, politically, and most importantly militarily. Even though they didnt do anything expect sit on their thrones in Tehran and speak empty talk like usual."

So in other words they're hall way bullies that want our money for so called protecting us from bigger bullies and the fact we're related in some way (majority Shia)

This is typical some nationalistic Iraqis thinking. They are not realistic.

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1 minute ago, Hassan- said:

but instead you say things like "ISIS was neutralized by the Iraqi military in Iraq. The Iraqi government doesn't need Iranian interference in their affairs."

I am sorry if I offended you but it is true and the truth hurts. Sumerian, King and Ashvazdanghe have all mentioned both that the Iraqi and Iranian people are getting frustrated with the Iranian interference in Iraq. ISIS is dead, time to pull out and recover losses.

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1 minute ago, Dhulfikar said:

This is typical some nationalistic Iraqis thinking. They are not realistic.

Nationalism is haram brother. I don't believe Iraq is superior to Iran but these borders are here to stay so I follow them and the Tehrani regime doesn't believe in these borders because they keep acting as if they own us now. By the way that is very hippo-critical as Iranians I swear to God are the most nationalistic people I've ever met even more than Americans and Japanese.

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5 minutes ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Nationalism is haram brother. I don't believe Iraq is superior to Iran but these borders are here to stay so I follow them and the Tehrani regime doesn't believe in these borders because they keep acting as if they own us now. By the way that is very hippo-critical as Iranians I swear to God are the most nationalistic people I've ever met even more than Americans and Japanese.

I really don't know do they even feel that they own us, I don't want to assume possible wrong things. We just want to have good relationship with the neighbors.

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1 minute ago, Dhulfikar said:

I really don't know do they even feel that they own us, I don't want to assume possible wrong things. We just want to have good relationship with the neighbors.

Brother thats what I literally mean! Lets have good relations have all surrounding countries and super powers and not involve our selfs in other conflicts that have nothing to do with us good relations with sunni arab nations, Shia Iran, America, and Russia understand?

Salam

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We live in the end times and we muslims need to understand this.

We can either take part in the axis of resistance or the axis of oppression.

The axis of oppression will not stop until they have full control over all countries and they are at war with Islam as a religion, they will not leave you alone even if you want to be left alone.

The axis of resistance are those who refuse to be oppressed and live under oppression, the ones who fights for the establishment of our Imams(ajf) base of operation.

There is no space for "leave us alone" that is not how the world works anymore, the world is getting smaller and smaller by the day and it is no longer a fight between country X and country Y, it is a fight against the shias and the ones who would like to see them gone. It is not a question of Iran exporting WF, it never was, it is about doing that which is best of the shias and what empowers them.

 

Honestly spoken, this is really tragic and sad to see. On one hand you have some Iranians who say: to hell with the arabs, the iraqis, the syrians, the lebanese, the palestinians, all of them. Why should we send our resources there and help them with their problems, we have poverty in our own country and unemployment, etc, lets just take care of our own.

On the other hand you have people like batman/king/sumerian/big ego and "super enlightened agnostic shias" and guys from the other side of planet earth cheering them on as they speak of "leave us alone" we dont want Iranian help, we just want to be by ourselves, the iranians never did anything for us now they think we owe them something.

Meanwhile there are very few individuals who actually see the bigger picture in all of this, the real war that is going on, who puts away their pride, primitive feelings of national identity, who call for all of us to unite, for us to care about each other as humans, to do what is right and to fight back against the enemy of Islam, the eternal enemy of Islam.

Please brothers understand something, you are ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, nothing at all, except for the accumulations of your deeds, which are the only things that are actually yours, the things you own and the only things that will follow you to the grave and beyond. Your national identity, your ideas of how great you are, they mean absolutely nothing and they are worth absolutely nothing. Fear the day when we will be questioned about our pride and it is our deeds that will be on display and what are our deeds? Have we put islam first in our lives? On our tongues? Have we defined us as shias first and foremost? Have we called for unity and rallied against the enemies of the shias?

Have we uttered words that will unite the shias, that will direct our power in one common goal, that will bring us closer to each other? Or have we split us up into groups and become proud over our differences? Have we caused sparks of fitna?

Have we as the followers of Imam Ali(as), his shias, made him proud? Have we put his path first and our own second? Or are we too busy being full of ourselves?

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Quote

Meanwhile there are very few individuals who actually see the bigger picture in all of this, the real war that is going on, who puts away their pride, primitive feelings of national identity, who call for all of us to unite, for us to care about each other as humans, to do what is right and to fight back against the enemy of Islam, the eternal enemy of Islam.

As a Muslims, our duty is to make stability with Ummah, and that's why having very good relationship with Iran is more important than having good relationship with non-Muslims countries that tries to destroy Islam. 

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1 hour ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Brother thats what I literally mean! Lets have good relations have all surrounding countries and super powers and not involve our selfs in other conflicts that have nothing to do with us good relations with sunni arab nations, Shia Iran, America, and Russia understand?

Salam

Yes, lets be indifferent to haqq and batil, lets set aside amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar. Lets make friends with ibliss(la) while we are at it. Lets ride our flying unicorns while we do this as well. I bett the Imam of our time(ajf) will be proud of us for not taking a stance in the world. Do you even believe in the imam of our time(ajf)? I do not know what to expect from someone who calls themselves a "agnostic shia" as if there is something called "atheist shia" as well.

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1 minute ago, Dhulfikar said:

As a Muslims, our duty is to make stability with Ummah, and that's why having very good relationship with Iran is more important than having good relationship with non-Muslims countries that tries to destroy Islam. 

Exactly, it is about uniting as shias, not as nation X and nation Y.

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1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

Exactly, it is about uniting as shias, not as nation X and nation Y.

Actually the best is to unite all the Muslims because they are also part of Prophet Muhammad (saws) Ummah. Remember we have these Fitnah causers that prevent us to unite.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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7 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Actually the best is to unite all the Muslims because they are also part of Prophet Muhammad (saws) Ummah.

Yes, they are and iA they will see the light of things and the way the world is developing they are. They see what is going on in Yemen, they see what is going on in Palestine and they see how the leaders of the sunnis, the house of saud(la) are dealing with it.

I remember a conversation I had with a man from malaysia while I was a singapore about this, he was a sunni and was telling me how after the things that are happening in Yemen starts to understand the nature of house of saud(la).

This is the hand of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى at play in preparation for the arrival of our Imam(ajf). Much like how the kafirs war on islam has made islam more known to everyone and made the amount of reverts grow because it made many people research Islam.

images.jpg

Edited by IbnSina

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سبحان الله

May Allah bless @IbnSina and @Dhulfikar in this matter,

Oh Believers,

Praise be upon Allah,

Who has made us like He desires,

He made us inequal in our minds,

Thy Lord is Oft-Forgiving,

Pray to Him,

For the tongues of the disbelievers shall be hung in humility,

By the Day that shall surely come.

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4 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Beautifully put brother we as Iraqis need peace between each other and acknowledge the voice of minorities before we can move on with other problems the plague our miserable nation 

Internal problems in Iraq are not the source of today's Iraqi problem. They are secondary to the external factors- foreign interests due to Iraqi oil reserves + containment of Iran. Due to these two reasons internal problems are manufactured, amplified, and magnified into chaos. Take Kurdish issue for example- creation of a South Lebanon for Iran seems to be behind the foreign activities in Kurdish politics. Or how Gulf Arabs financed ISIS as means of countering Iran....or how Iraq was never left alone throughout its existence because of its vast oil reserves.

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4 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

What are you talking about brother Iraq always survived after the American invasion by its self before the Iranians wanted to acknowledge our problems by 2014 but by then it was too late.

If by surviving you mean going on a path that produced ISIS and Kurdish secession then I agree with you. This whole process will repeat themselves again if Iraq squanders its resources in focusing on wrong problems- like national reconciliation etc. Iraq needs to gain full control of its borders first before it can do anything of substance....and Iran is the only honest player in the field and without their help Iraq will have to rely on wonderful friends on the block like Saudi Arabia, France, Qatar, or Turkey.

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