Jump to content
Jin Jin

Pakistan

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 12:58 AM, wmehar2 said:

Strange I came back 2 days ago.

It said the website was deemed  dangerous/harmful everytime I tried to access it, from the government. 

Which gov't?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:28 AM, Fatima Zehra110.. said:

Use ur common sense bro how can a country shape people?? People can make country a hell or heaven...

DONT MIND...

True, but your question has an answer. Countries 'shape' people by policies and propaganda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/25/2017 at 1:15 PM, Jin Jin said:

What do you think about Pakistan?

Depends on whom you ask.
The Shia Turi Pashtun from Parachinar, to whom the Durrand Line has always been a joke.
The Muhajir from Karachi, for whom it is a dream gone awry.
Or the Sunni (preferably Deobandi) Punjabi from Bahawalpur, for whom it is the South Asian equivalent of Bismarck's Kleindeutschland.

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
grammatical error

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello @Marbles, hope you have been well and good to see you around here.
There is not much difference between the last century's Western push to create nation states in Islamic world...and the this century's push to create terrorist organizations as they are both instruments of the good old 'divide & conquer' policy.

What would you say to someone from Islamic State showcasing their patriotism?...especially after being locked in a pointless war with rest of Iraq for decades? Pakistani patriotism is even worse as it is created as a tumour  to block Central Asia from South Asia. Being familiar with the region you could appreciate how important this link has been throughout history- where such events as the formation of India or the rise of Mughuls and everything inbetween owe themselves to this opening. 

There is nothing wrong with patriotism or expression of love..if anything we need more of it today. But lets be patriotic about Iran, cuz unlike Pakistan, its fighting terrorism in the region. Lets be patriotic about China for building the foundations of continental infrastructure, lets be patriotic about India for creating massive amounts of, not terrorists like Pakistan, but doctors or engineers etc. I would have felt the same about every European country or any country anywhere for that matter if they were built to serve the masters far off and at the cost of the wellbeing of the locals. Pakistan is everything that is wrong with the entire region. Pakistan or Afghanistan or Saudi or Jordan or.... are fake and unnatural. Their existence are expensive mistakes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Marbles said:

I am using SC right now from Pakistan without proxy and I have never had a problem ever.

Which ISP you were using? Did you use it through company servers or independently?

I used Zong hotpsot for a service?

I have to ask my cousin.  I used a proxy but it was too slow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Wahdat thank you. Yes, I have been good and I hope everything has been well at your end too? It must be really cold up there these days right...

As I said, circumstances change to allow for developments hitherto unseen and unappreciated. Appreciating China's continental structure building requires an appreciation of the opportunity that CPEC and the larger OBOR provide despite the negative press both are getting. India and beyond will inevitably join in when the projects become functional. What is today Pakistan's vice may well becomes its virtue. I'm not overly optimistic in near future about our region, but even one-eyed pundits can see that things are changing fast here. What was once set up to serve foreign powers decades ago may not serve their purpose anymore, and what was set up as a bulwark against imperialism may well come under its influence. Let's see how things come about. 

I agree about there being nothing wrong in a show of patriotism and appreciation for nations that have done well. Some form of patriotism and a sense of collective civic responsibility is necessary to take off especially for newer countries & those that have seen terrible lows like Afghanistan. That said, people who see beyond slogans and sweeping statements are worried more about the rise of toxic right wing nationalism the world over, including in countries that are being congratulated here, than terrorism and its foreign masters. Terrorism will eventually die because nothing based on terror and brute force lasts for long, but the spectre of divisive and hostile nationalism that the world had undergone a 100 years ago is all set to return. But about that, maybe some other time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Marbles said:

I am using SC right now from Pakistan without proxy and I have never had a problem ever.

I think you don't get any problems with PTCL, it's wifi especially mobilink who's blocked it. Strange.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

I used Zong hotpsot for a service?

I have to ask my cousin.  I used a proxy but it was too slow.

I haven't used Zong to browse SC but my cousin has it and I will get him to check.

1 minute ago, starlight said:

I think you don't get any problems with PTCL, it's wifi especially mobilink who's blocked it. Strange.

I have accessed SC with Mobilink without a problem.

Yes, we don't get any problem with PTCL, which is government owned. SC would not have been accessible through PTCL if there was a govt ban on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Marbles said:

Bro @Wahdat I haven't read the entire thread but why should every discussion about Pakistan (or any other country, for that matter) become a discussion about its creation and who created it for what purpose? As you indicate there are many countries in the world both in the East and the West that came to exist due to the exigencies of regional politics or under the pressure of foreign intervention, or have different borders than they should have, or seceded from parent country at the cost of their own long term prosperity (Eg the Central and Southern Europe is made of countries that emerged through infighting between empires, South American is one big Hispanica divided into pieces on the basis of frozen battle lines, likewise Arab states and Israel). But I don't think any of this helps to discus the real problems people and societies face in those countries. That being said, we also know that states change over time, get better or worse depending on the path they take. It's better to focus on that than retell the old wives tale about their creation.

re: nationalism. It is a liability when it takes on toxic forms that blind people, but ironically it is also a necessary component in the development of societies that value their sovereignty and Independence, Countries you appreciate as being strong and independent (Russia, Iran, China etc) have all very strong nationalistic currents that resist foreign intervention. 

Just my two cents.

:salam:

2017 gone, Marbles back !

Wahdat has a point when he says nationalism blinds people. As a matter of fact, it is sometimes what prevents them to operate their revolutions. "Our King is corrupt, but hey, God bless our [national dish]."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Which gov't?

If ShiaChat is blocked in your country.

use public cloud like Azure or AWS create a virtual machine (Ububtu) is least expensive with minimum endurance. 

install Google chrome 

use ShiaChat from there

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Wahdat said:

Hello @Marbles, hope you have been well and good to see you around here.
There is not much difference between the last century's Western push to create nation states in Islamic world...and the this century's push to create terrorist organizations as they are both instruments of the good old 'divide & conquer' policy.

What would you say to someone from Islamic State showcasing their patriotism?...especially after being locked in a pointless war with rest of Iraq for decades? Pakistani patriotism is even worse as it is created as a tumour  to block Central Asia from South Asia. Being familiar with the region you could appreciate how important this link has been throughout history- where such events as the formation of India or the rise of Mughuls and everything inbetween owe themselves to this opening. 

There is nothing wrong with patriotism or expression of love..if anything we need more of it today. But lets be patriotic about Iran, cuz unlike Pakistan, its fighting terrorism in the region. Lets be patriotic about China for building the foundations of continental infrastructure, lets be patriotic about India for creating massive amounts of, not terrorists like Pakistan, but doctors or engineers etc. I would have felt the same about every European country or any country anywhere for that matter if they were built to serve the masters far off and at the cost of the wellbeing of the locals. Pakistan is everything that is wrong with the entire region. Pakistan or Afghanistan or Saudi or Jordan or.... are fake and unnatural. Their existence are expensive mistakes. 

The lamentations of Afghani nationalists should soon cease because Pakistan is building a very nice double fence along the Durand line to keep the filth out of it. ^^ Be happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Marbles said:

I haven't used Zong to browse SC but my cousin has it and I will get him to check.

I have accessed SC with Mobilink without a problem.

Yes, we don't get any problem with PTCL, which is government owned. SC would not have been accessible through PTCL if there was a govt ban on it.

l do not know what good blocking the web does, although it does prevent 'flash mobs'.

D.John M. Cornwall, pseudonym John Le Carre`, said in a interview a few years ago that professional practitioners of spycraft had already returned to 19th Century techniques. Which is where the most serious terrorist threats operate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

I don't think its a coincidence that Pakistan banned Shiachat.com from viewership right after this thread was launched. Being an American puppet our authorities seriously hate and silence all truth outlets now. Oh well.

Yeah. All we have to do is use the food recipe sites.  :egg:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Yeah. All we have to do is use the food recipe sites.  :egg:

Or surf Bollywood/Lollywood imbeciles, and swoon over their photos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam @Marbles, life is good in my end and you are right...its terribly cold...so cold that pubic events for new year's eve were cancelled...and this is a country that prides itself with its cold.

Going back to our discussion...rise of Hindu nationalism is and should be of concern to anyone interested in the wellbeing of the region. But I believe the sole loser in this reality is and will be India. BJP's bending-backwards for US might intoxicate Hindu nationalists at the moment but unroots India of its decades long non-Western policy that was laid out by Nehru- making it  easy for its new allies/'friends' to use it as a sock puppet like they are used to. But I have faith in India's politician-centric system where corrupt folks will eventually be voted out. Unlike Pakistan's military-centric system where Army Generals have the last say by the virtue of their guns and cannot be voted out by public. India will soon realize that they are going backwards and thus will vote out the retarded BJP & allies out of power or BJP can preempt this by sailing back to India's organic ideals and place in the international system. 

Pakistan is built around its military and that military was conceived, nursed, educated, and employed by the US. So long as it is in charge, Pakistan and the region will continue to go on to operate by US guidelines & policies... this is despite the various US administrations' quarrels with Pakistani ones. I believe behind the scenes Pakistan is permitted by the US to take part in the Chinese project and this is not an independent decision by Pakistan. My litmus test for Pakistani independence and the strength of this army-army alliance with the US is the IPI pipeline. The day Pakistan can build this pipeline or can develop military-military connection with Iran is the day I will start becoming optimistic about Pakistan and the region.
Iran is another military-centric system...what however differentiates it from the Pakistani model is that everything important in Iranian military structure is organic and puts it in the same league as China and Russia. Lets see what this century brings us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

The lamentations of Afghani nationalists should soon cease because Pakistan is building a very nice double fence along the Durand line to keep the filth out of it. ^^ Be happy.

dont tell me you are wearing a little green hat saying 'making pakistan great again' with your little beautiful fence :lol: 
Imran Khan marrying a gori or you imitating  trump shows how the entire psyche of majority in Pakistan is shaped by the Sahibs out West.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Wahdat said:

Going back to our discussion...rise of Hindu nationalism is and should be of concern to anyone interested in the wellbeing of the region. But I believe the sole loser in this reality is and will be India. BJP's bending-backwards for US might intoxicate Hindu nationalists at the moment but unroots India of its decades long non-Western policy that was laid out by Nehru- making it  easy for its new allies/'friends' to use it as a sock puppet like they are used to. But I have faith in India's politician-centric system where corrupt folks will eventually be voted out. Unlike Pakistan's military-centric system where Army Generals have the last say by the virtue of their guns and cannot be voted out by public. India will soon realize that they are going backwards and thus will vote out the retarded BJP & allies out of power or BJP can preempt this by sailing back to India's organic ideals and place in the international system. 

Assalamu alaykum brother,

And that being said, there are multiple voices within the BJP ; they are not a political monolith. Many saner voices among them are wary of joining the pro-US bandwagon and seeming like a US sock-puppet, as this might incense Russia, which is another very old ally. There are pragmatic minds within the ruling dispensation itself who are careful that India should not appear as a US salesman-lackey, hard-selling the US position and doing America's bidding on the  intra-Asiatic political scene, if the recent UN vote against Trump's Jerusalem proposal is anything to go by.
They also differ with each other regarding aspects of domestic policy, including the treatment of the minorities. There is the loudmouthed rabble and the semi-civilized rank and file, and there are pragmatists higher up within the current ruling establishment who favor a more conciliatory stance, because at the end of the day, India's international image is at the stake. More specifically, they are not as distrustful of, and relatively better disposed towards the Indian Shias, who have the image of a small, peaceful and largely a-political minority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×