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Jin Jin

What about Kashmir?

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On 14/12/2017 at 5:10 PM, Jin Jin said:

And what about Kashmir no one really cares about Kashmir?

As a Kashmiri I think people do care. However I do not like when people say What about Syria or Palestine or Kashmir. All of these places and many more have seen many injustices. Keep them all in your prayers equally.

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2 hours ago, Maha_13 said:

As a Kashmiri I think people do care. However I do not like when people say What about Syria or Palestine or Kashmir. All of these places and many more have seen many injustices. Keep them all in your prayers equally.

Salaam which part are you from Indian or Pakistani?

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21 hours ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

Salaam which part are you from Indian or Pakistani?

Pakistan. I understand the Indian occupied territory like Jammu has much more violence. I’m aware of this. But as a Kashmiri, I keep my Kashmiri brothers and sisters in my prayers 

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Kashmir needs an icon symbol of its freedom struggle.

Like how Palestine has the keffiyeh/shemagh - then us supporters around the world can help a lot more by raising awareness. Make it a campaign.

It was only just the other week, I got 'told off' by an Hindu Kashmiri for promoting freedom for Kashmir, she told me I have no right and I don't know anything :grin:

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22 minutes ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

Kashmir needs an icon symbol of its freedom struggle.

Like how Palestine has the keffiyeh/shemagh - then us supporters around the world can help a lot more by raising awareness. Make it a campaign.

It was only just the other week, I got 'told off' by an Hindu Kashmiri for promoting freedom for Kashmir, she told me I have no right and I don't know anything :grin:

I don’t think they were right for doing so. But I think the reason is ignorance that people don’t understand what we go through because we’re from Kashmir.

 

We get looked down on from Pakistani and Indian people because we Kashmiri.

 

Thank you for promoting freedom for Kashmir. Please also pray for the women in Congo, children in Syria and people who are suffering 

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In last 15 years atleast 16,436 people have been killed in Jammu & Kashmir. Out of which 4571 are civilians, 8537 alleged militants & 3108 armed forces. On an average 3 people were killed every day. The cost of not solving a conflict is thousands of devastated families.

 

 

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3 hours ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

Kashmir needs an icon symbol of its freedom struggle.

Like how Palestine has the keffiyeh/shemagh - then us supporters around the world can help a lot more by raising awareness. Make it a campaign.

It was only just the other week, I got 'told off' by an Hindu Kashmiri for promoting freedom for Kashmir, she told me I have no right and I don't know anything :grin:

DM me the whole conversation or else if you could post it here. 

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8 minutes ago, Jin Jin said:

Everybody has concern about oppressed people in everywhere but the people that have power to help them such as un chief doesnt do anything.

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On 12/15/2017 at 6:12 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Yeah I'm surprised why Muslims are just concerned about Palestine but not about Kashmir.

So many Iraqi, Iranni, Labanese etc. Will do everything to support Palestine by chanting "free Palestine", but they don't even care about how many people are suffering in Kashmir.

I don't get it!! :censored: If you're a Muslim - be against injustice everywhere. 

There is different reason because of which Kashmir is not a hot topic. None is denying that injustices meted out but Kashmiri are equally responsible for mayhem. If you read history of Kashmir properly you will find that Pakistani militia attacked Kashmir with the intent of annexing it, ruler of Kashmir who was contemplating to remain independent asked Indian help to deter Pakistani militia and Indian government accepted his plea to support Kashmir state with condition of annexing it with India which he accepted. Though Prime Minister of India Pt. Nehru promised plebiscite but there were certain conditions like removal of all pakistani forces from Kashmir area which didn't happen till now. 

why Kashmiri now want separate state on the basis of religion namely muslim? We Indian muslim already faced too much and paid heavy price because of partition which happened due to stupidity of few self centered muslim leaders. first these kashmiri people need to change the subject of Independence from religious point of view and secondly ask their Pakistani friends to leave whole Kashmir including Aksai Chin area which is currently held by China.

 

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21 hours ago, Maha_13 said:

Thank you for promoting freedom for Kashmir. Please also pray for the women in Congo, children in Syria and people who are suffering 

near Dr shariati said today generation muslims are mosaic generation they have concern of all people from any part of world but they can't do anything for themselves & rest of the world.

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3 hours ago, haidermpr said:

but Kashmiri are equally responsible for mayhem. 

 

How are Kashmiris equally responsible ?  

4 hours ago, haidermpr said:

 If you read history of Kashmir properly you will find that Pakistani militia attacked Kashmir with the intent of annexing it, ruler of Kashmir who was contemplating to remain independent asked Indian help to deter Pakistani militia and Indian government accepted his plea to support Kashmir state with condition of annexing it with India which he accepted. Though Prime Minister of India Pt. Nehru promised plebiscite but there were certain conditions like removal of all pakistani forces from Kashmir area which didn't happen till now. 

 

 

It was the massacre of Muslim in Jammu in 1947 by the dogra regime that prompted an invasion on tribal militia from Pakistan. Jammu had 60% Muslim population till 1947, now Muslims in Jammu region are a minority. Unfortunately the Indians are not aware of the Jammu massacre & Pakistanis are not aware of the tribal invasion. Every country propagates their own version of history. 

Yes as per the UN resolution withdrawal of Pakistani forces is a condition for the plebiscite but there is no option for independence either, Kashmiris have to choose between India or Pakistan. The successive Indian governments are not even acknowledging  the fact that it's  a dispute. 

5 hours ago, haidermpr said:

why Kashmiri now want separate state on the basis of religion namely muslim? We Indian muslim already faced too much and paid heavy price because of partition which happened due to stupidity of few self centered muslim leaders. first these kashmiri people need to change the subject of Independence from religious point of view and secondly ask their Pakistani friends to leave whole Kashmir including Aksai Chin area which is currently held by China.

 

 

Kashmiris have been demanding a resolution of the conflict from the day Nehru betrayed them. Sheikh abdullah ( father of Farooq abdullah) who was the 2nd prime minister of kashmir was jailed in 1953 for 11 years by the Indian state. We Kashmiris are not demanding independence because of our religious affiliations. If it was about religion, becoming a part of Pakistan makes more sense. 

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18 hours ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

How are Kashmiris equally responsible ?  

Because they never asked Pakistani establishment to leave the Kashmir area acquired by it during 1947 invasion by Pakistani militia and secondly supporting militants and their ideology.

18 hours ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

It was the massacre of Muslim in Jammu in 1947 by the dogra regime that prompted an invasion on tribal militia from Pakistan. Jammu had 60% Muslim population till 1947, now Muslims in Jammu region are a minority. Unfortunately the Indians are not aware of the Jammu massacre & Pakistanis are not aware of the tribal invasion. Every country propagates their own version of history. 

Wrong info can't hide the facts. There is no denying that Hindus and Sikh massacred muslim of Jammu in Sep-Oct-1947 but before that Pakistan not only stopped supply of important necessities but its militia attacked Kashmir. I know both things and hence cant support oppression of either side. both were highly disgusting and condemnable.

 

18 hours ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

We Kashmiris are not demanding independence because of our religious affiliations. If it was about religion, becoming a part of Pakistan makes more sense. 

Current separatists and militants clearly want to annex Kashmir to Pakistan as they don't want an independent Kashmir. If Pakistan and militants are so much interested in Independence they should also start war with Pakistani establishment.

 

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2 hours ago, haidermpr said:
21 hours ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

It was the massacre of Muslim in Jammu in 1947 by the dogra regime that prompted an invasion on tribal militia from Pakistan. Jammu had 60% Muslim population till 1947, now Muslims in Jammu region are a minority. Unfortunately the Indians are not aware of the Jammu massacre & Pakistanis are not aware of the tribal invasion. Every country propagates their own version of history. 

Wrong info can't hide the facts. There is no denying that Hindus and Sikh massacred muslim of Jammu in Sep-Oct-1947 but before that Pakistan not only stopped supply of important necessities but its militia attacked Kashmir. I know both things and hence cant support oppression of either side. both were highly disgusting and condemnable.

 

donot twist the facts

Ranbir Singh's grandson Hari Singh, who had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925, was the reigning monarch in 1947 at the conclusion of British rule of the subcontinent and the subsequent partition of the British Indian Empire into the newly independent Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. An internal revolt began in the Poonch region against oppressive taxation by the Maharaja.[77] In August, Maharaja's forces fired upon demonstrations in favour of Kashmir joining Pakistan, burned whole villages and massacred innocent people.[78] The Poonch rebels declared an independent government of "Azad" Kashmir on 24 October.[79] Rulers of Princely States were encouraged to accede their States to either Dominion – India or Pakistan, taking into account factors such as geographical contiguity and the wishes of their people. In 1947, Kashmir's population was "77% Muslim and 20% Hindu".[80] To postpone making a hurried decision, the Maharaja signed a standstill agreement with Pakistan, which ensured continuity of trade, travel, communication, and similar services between the two. Such an agreement was pending with India.[81] Following huge riots in Jammu, in October 1947, Pashtuns from Pakistan's North-West Frontier Provincerecruited by the Poonch rebels, invaded Kashmir, along with the Poonch rebels, allegedly incensed by the atrocities against fellow Muslims in Poonch and Jammu. The tribesmen engaged in looting and killing along the way.[82][83] The ostensible aim of the guerilla campaign was to frighten Hari Singh into submission. Instead the Maharaja appealed to the Government of India for assistance, and the Governor-General Lord Mountbatten[c] agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India.[80] Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state. India accepted the accession, regarding it provisional[84] until such time as the will of the people can be ascertained. Kashmir leader Sheikh Abdullah endorsed the accession as ad-hoc which would be ultimately decided by the people of the State. He was appointed the head of the emergency administration by the Maharaja.[85] The Pakistani government immediately contested the accession, suggesting that it was fraudulent, that the Maharaja acted under duress and that he had no right to sign an agreement with India when the standstill agreement with Pakistan was still in force.

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The Princely State of Kashmir and Jammu (as it was then called) was constituted between 1820 and 1858 and was "somewhat artificial in composition and it did not develop a fully coherent identity, partly as a result of its disparate origins and partly as a result of the autocratic rule which it experienced on the fringes of Empire."[71] It combined disparate regions, religions, and ethnicities: to the east, Ladakh was ethnically and culturally Tibetan and its inhabitants practised Buddhism; to the south, Jammu had a mixed population of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs; in the heavily populated central Kashmir valley, the population was overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim, however, there was also a small but influential Hindu minority, the Kashmiri brahmins or pandits; to the northeast, sparsely populated Baltistan had a population ethnically related to Ladakh, but which practised Shi'aIslam; to the north, also sparsely populated, Gilgit Agency, was an area of diverse, mostly Shi'a groups; and, to the west, Punch was Muslim, but of different ethnicity than the Kashmir valley.[71]

Despite being in a majority the Muslims were made to suffer severe oppression under Hindu rule in the form of high taxes, unpaid forced labor and discriminatory laws.[72] Many Kashmiri Muslims migrated from the Valley to Punjab due to famine and policies of Dogra rulers.[73] The Muslim peasantry was vast, impoverished and ruled by a Hindu elite.[74][75]  The Muslim peasants lacked education, awareness of rights and were chronically in debt to landlords and moneylenders,[74] and did not organize politically until the 1930s.[75] It is interesting to note that it was a Kashmiri Shia Muslim named Aga Syed Hussain Thakur who passed the matriculation examinations for the first time in Kashmir in the year 1894.[76]

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2 hours ago, haidermpr said:

Because they never asked Pakistani establishment to leave the Kashmir area acquired by it during 1947 invasion by Pakistani militia and secondly supporting militants and their ideology.

 

When kashmir's own elected representatives were jailed by the Indian state you wanted them to ask Pakistan to withdraw. At least Pakistan is acknowledging that kashmir is a dispute, India on the other hand isn't even acknowledging that. 

 

3 hours ago, haidermpr said:

Current separatists and militants clearly want to annex Kashmir to Pakistan as they don't want an independent Kashmir. If Pakistan and militants are so much interested in Independence they should also start war with Pakistani establishment.

 

Yes there is a strong pro Pakistan sentiments within the separatists establishment but then there are pro independence leaders as well such as Yasin Malik & others. 

Pakistan has always maintained that Kashmiris should be given the right to self determination but India hasn't. 

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17 hours ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

When kashmir's own elected representatives were jailed by the Indian state you wanted them to ask Pakistan to withdraw. At least Pakistan is acknowledging that kashmir is a dispute, India on the other hand isn't even acknowledging that. 

 

Yes there is a strong pro Pakistan sentiments within the separatists establishment but then there are pro independence leaders as well such as Yasin Malik & others. 

Pakistan has always maintained that Kashmiris should be given the right to self determination but India hasn't. 

Dont fool people here with rhetoric. Tell us simply what Pakistani forces are doing in lands of Kashmir without any agreement for that? Instead they should have left after UN intervention according to agreement of plebiscite. Why India has to leave its part of Kashmir when Kashmir was legally acceded to India?

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18 hours ago, Jin Jin said:

donot twist the facts

Ranbir Singh's grandson Hari Singh, who had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925, was the reigning monarch in 1947 at the conclusion of British rule of the subcontinent and the subsequent partition of the British Indian Empire into the newly independent Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. An internal revolt began in the Poonch region against oppressive taxation by the Maharaja.[77] In August, Maharaja's forces fired upon demonstrations in favour of Kashmir joining Pakistan, burned whole villages and massacred innocent people.[78] The Poonch rebels declared an independent government of "Azad" Kashmir on 24 October.[79] Rulers of Princely States were encouraged to accede their States to either Dominion – India or Pakistan, taking into account factors such as geographical contiguity and the wishes of their people. In 1947, Kashmir's population was "77% Muslim and 20% Hindu".[80] To postpone making a hurried decision, the Maharaja signed a standstill agreement with Pakistan, which ensured continuity of trade, travel, communication, and similar services between the two. Such an agreement was pending with India.[81] Following huge riots in Jammu, in October 1947, Pashtuns from Pakistan's North-West Frontier Provincerecruited by the Poonch rebels, invaded Kashmir, along with the Poonch rebels, allegedly incensed by the atrocities against fellow Muslims in Poonch and Jammu. The tribesmen engaged in looting and killing along the way.[82][83] The ostensible aim of the guerilla campaign was to frighten Hari Singh into submission. Instead the Maharaja appealed to the Government of India for assistance, and the Governor-General Lord Mountbatten[c] agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India.[80] Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state. India accepted the accession, regarding it provisional[84] until such time as the will of the people can be ascertained. Kashmir leader Sheikh Abdullah endorsed the accession as ad-hoc which would be ultimately decided by the people of the State. He was appointed the head of the emergency administration by the Maharaja.[85] The Pakistani government immediately contested the accession, suggesting that it was fraudulent, that the Maharaja acted under duress and that he had no right to sign an agreement with India when the standstill agreement with Pakistan was still in force.

Read all these events properly before copy pasting wikipedia...

all the communities were at receiving end and were massacred during 1947 partition..we should condemn killing and plundering of muslim, sikh and hindus. I can not support killing and plundering of the wealth of any innocent that is completely un islamic. 

 

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3 hours ago, haidermpr said:

Dont fool people here with rhetoric. Tell us simply what Pakistani forces are doing in lands of Kashmir without any agreement for that? Instead they should have left after UN intervention according to agreement of plebiscite. Why India has to leave its part of Kashmir when Kashmir was legally acceded to India?

 

Pakistani forces in kashmir are an occupational force so are Indian forces. 

As per the instrument of accession there has to be a plebiscite, which is yet to happen.

IMG_5425.JPG

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29 minutes ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

 

Pakistani forces in kashmir are an occupational force so are Indian forces. 

As per the instrument of accession there has to be a plebiscite, which is yet to happen.

IMG_5425.JPG

Dear Show me single sentence of plebiscite in instrument of accession by Jammu and Kashmir Maharaja. Original copy of accession document attached.  I once again retreat that Mr. Nehru had promised plebiscite on his own and he would have completed his promises but illegal occupation and assault by Pakistan forces destroyed the hope of Kashmir people. But yo people are not ready to see  the truth and blaming India instead of Pakistan which is real culprit of your plight.

JK Accession.jpg

JK2.jpg

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17 minutes ago, haidermpr said:

Dear Show me single sentence of plebiscite in instrument of accession by Jammu and Kashmir Maharaja. Original copy of accession document attached.  I once again retreat that Mr. Nehru had promised plebiscite on his own and he would have completed his promises but illegal occupation and assault by Pakistan forces destroyed the hope of Kashmir people. But yo people are not ready to see  the truth and blaming India instead of Pakistan which is real culprit of your plight.

JK Accession.jpg

JK2.jpg

 

Why can't Nehrus (Indias first prime ministers ) promise be fulfilled now & end this dispute once in for all. 

You have repeatedly blamed Kashmir's and Pakistan but you are not ready to acknowledge that Pakistan has always maintained that Kashmiris should be given the right to self determination & India on the other had been betraying Kashmiris from day one.

It is the Indian forces that have been blinding, maiming & killing kashmir's not Pakistani. 

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23 hours ago, Ali Al Kashmiri said:

Why can't Nehrus (Indias first prime ministers ) promise be fulfilled now & end this dispute once in for all. 

You have repeatedly blamed Kashmir's and Pakistan but you are not ready to acknowledge that Pakistan has always maintained that Kashmiris should be given the right to self determination & India on the other had been betraying Kashmiris from day one.

It is the Indian forces that have been blinding, maiming & killing kashmir's not Pakistani.

As per condition of plebiscite Pakistan must leave sovereign lands of Kashmir and after that anything can be done. Why militancy was initiated and forces are bound to respond back. Yes killing innocent civilians is condemnable.

What do you by Pakistan always maintained that Kashmiris should be given right to self determination when illegally they are occupying vast land? Why they are not leaving those occupied land before plebiscite as per agreement? 

it is your leaders who are betraying people of Kashmir since initial days just like Jinnah and his friends had betrayed muslim of whole continent. India never betrayed people of Kashmir. we have an agreement in place and working accordingly. 

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