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Whats killing our brothers in Palestine?

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On 12/14/2017 at 7:12 PM, Hassan- said:

My dear bro, you are not understanding the paragraph. What you showed me is not a fatwa, it is someone explaining a fatwa of the marja', it is talking from a third person perspective not a first person. First the author starts off in third person perspective by stating what Imam Khamenei says about insults:   قال سماحة السيد القائد مراراً لا توجهوا الإهانات لمقدسات سائر المذاهب إذن يجب اجتناب هذه الممارسات (Imam Khamenei said repeatedly to not insult the sanctity of other sects, therefore avoid such acts)

Then the author stops right there with what the marja' states, and tells us what other people say in first person perspective:  :و النقطة الجديرة بالملاحظة هي أن البعض يقولون (Another point I'd like to make is that some people say:)

Then the author quotes what other people say in a third person perspective:  لا إشکال في أن نعلن في المجالس الخاصة ("There is no problem in cursing in secret majalis")

Then the author goes back to first person by answering the people from his own opinion and tells us the marja' never specified whether in public or private: :لكن سماحته لم يقيّد الأمر بأن يكون المجلس عاماً أو خاصاً، بل قال على نحو العموم (However the Sayed did not specify whether to not insult in public or secret, instead he said in a general sense: )

The author switches to third person and states the fatwa of the marja' once again: لا توجّهوا الإهانات لمقدسات سائر المسلمين، أي سائر الفرق الإسلامية (Do not insult the sanctity of other Muslims, any sanctity of the other sects in Islam)

As you can see brother, there is no fatwa of Imam Khamenei not allowing cursing in private. The marja' only has a general fatwa for la3n, he does not go into specifics and details about it.  

This is from his official website where someone is explaining his fatwa. If the original fatwa is general, where is your proof that he allows cursing in private? The proof is upon you, because the fatwa so far is unconditional. You need proof for the condition you have added.

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On 12/14/2017 at 7:20 PM, Sumerian said:

This is from his official website where someone is explaining his fatwa. 

Yes and that 'someone' did not say in the paragraph you showed me that the marja' does not allow cursing in private.

On 12/14/2017 at 7:20 PM, Sumerian said:

If the original fatwa is general, where is your proof that he allows cursing in private? The proof is upon you, because the fatwa so far is unconditional. You need proof for the condition you have added.

No the onus is on you to prove it not me. In Islam everything is halal unless forbidden otherwise. I do not see any fatwa from Imam Khamenei that cursing in private is not allowed, if there is please prove it to me.

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On 12/14/2017 at 11:52 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

I know he won't give a fatwa like 'curse in private but not in public'. So please help me understand how he meant it is allowed in private.

Read what I said to the brother above. If you want my thoughts on it, the only reason why the marja' forbade cursing in public is because it causes fitnah among the Muslims. If one curses in private, this annihilates the root of the problem (fitnah), therefore it is illogical for him to not allow it in private.

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On 12/14/2017 at 7:24 PM, Hassan- said:

Yes and that 'someone' did not say in the paragraph you showed me that the marja' does not allow cursing in private.

No the onus is on you to prove it not me. In Islam everything is halal unless forbidden otherwise. I do not see any fatwa from Imam Khamenei that cursing in private is not allowed, if there is please prove it to me.

No, that someone refuted those who said we can do this in private. To which the reply was, the Sayyed said in general, to not cause ihana to the muqadasaat of the other sects.

As for "everything is halal until proven not" - that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. That is a Fiqhi qa3ida, while we are discussing the meaning of a fatwa that has already been stated.

If a mujtahid rules something is halal or haram without conditioning it, then his fatwa is mutlaq and it is taken as such. 

It's like if Sistani says wearing gold for men is haram, but then someone says "but did he say wearing gold for men in private is haram?".

That makes no sense. If the fatwa is general, then that's how it should be taken.

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On 12/14/2017 at 7:34 PM, Sumerian said:

No, that someone refuted those who said we can do this in private. To which the reply was, the Sayyed said in general, to not cause ihana to the muqadasaat of the other sects.

As for "everything is halal until proven not" - that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. That is a Fiqhi qa3ida, while we are discussing the meaning of a fatwa that has already been stated.

If a mujtahid rules something is halal or haram without conditioning it, then his fatwa is mutlaq and it is taken as such. 

It's like if Sistani says wearing gold for men is haram, but then someone says "but did he say wearing gold for men in private is haram?".

That makes no sense. If the fatwa is general, then that's how it should be taken.

The response of that 'someone' is not a refutation, all he did was restate the general ruling of cursing. Understanding why a marja' rules something as haram or halal is important. Gold for men is haram because the Quran and sunnah dictates it, but cursing is not forbidden in the Quran and sunnah, so why does the marja' not allow it? Well the marja' says it himself, it's because it causes fitnah. If cursing did not cause fitnah, the marja' would allow it. so if one curses in private, this does not cause fitnah which is the the sole reason why he forbid it, so logically speaking it is allowed to curse in private. 

Some people ask 'if the marja' allows it in private, why does the marja' not publicly say it's allowed to curse them in private?', well that's because it makes him look like a hypocrite if he did, imagine saying to a Sunni I will not curse abu bakr in front of you but I will curse him behind your back..., it would just makes us look bad, and for that reason is why the marja' does not give details about cursing, and only gives a general ruling.

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On 12/14/2017 at 8:09 PM, Hassan- said:

The response of that 'someone' is not a refutation, all he did was restate the general ruling of cursing. Understanding why a marja' rules something as haram or halal is important. Gold for men is haram because the Quran and sunnah dictates it, but cursing is not forbidden in the Quran and sunnah, so why does the marja' not allow it? Well the marja' says it himself, it's because it causes fitnah. If cursing did not cause fitnah, the marja' would allow it. so if one curses in private, this does not cause fitnah which is the the sole reason why he forbid it, so logically speaking it is allowed to curse in private. 

Some people ask 'if the marja' allows it in private, why does the marja' not publicly say it's allowed to curse them in private?', well that's because it makes him look like a hypocrite if he did, imagine saying to a Sunni I will not curse abu bakr in front of you but I will curse him behind your back..., it would just makes us look bad, and for that reason is why the marja' does not give details about cursing, and only gives a general ruling.

This is your own speculation brother.

You will need a fatwa to support your claim, so I suggest you mail the office.

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