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Iblis in Sufism

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Salaam Aleikum,

I was reading wikipedia article about this:

Quote

In Sufism, Iblis is often depicted as an example of a true lover of God, teacher of oneness despite physical separation and rather a tragically fallen angel[27] than a failed creature. According to a narration from Al-Hallaj, Moses met Iblis on the slopes of Mount Sinai, there he asked him, why he refused God's command to bow before Adam, thereupon he was transformed from an angel into a Satan. Iblis replied, this command was actually not a command but a test, to prove who loves God without expecting anything in return[28] and he would rather go to hell than bow down to something that is not God. And now he refines his love to God through longing. Iblis's function as a devil is therefore regarded as a penalty, which he readily accepts. Abd al-Karīm al-Jīlī stated, Iblis will be back, after the Day of Judgement, as one of his cherished angels.[29]

These are nothing but assumptions and even go very far from Islam.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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11 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

 And now he refines his love to God through longing. Iblis's function as a devil is therefore regarded as a penalty, which he readily accepts. Abd al-Karīm al-Jīlī stated, Iblis will be back, after the Day of Judgement, as one of his cherished angels.[29]

وَإِنَّ عَلَيْكَ اللَّعْنَةَ إِلَى يَوْمِ الدِّينِ
And surely on you is curse until the day of judgement (15:35)

لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنكَ وَمِمَّن تَبِعَكَ مِنْهُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ
That I will most certainly fill hell with you and with those among them who follow you, all. (38:85)

 

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Shaitan or Iblis is also a hypocrite & a zalim.

Surah Al-Hashr, Verse 16:
كَمَثَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ إِذْ قَالَ لِلْإِنسَانِ اكْفُرْ فَلَمَّا كَفَرَ قَالَ إِنِّي بَرِيءٌ مِّنكَ إِنِّي أَخَافُ اللَّهَ رَبَّ الْعَالَمِينَ

Like the Shaitan when he says to man: Disbelieve, but when he disbelieves, he says: I am surely clear of you; surely I fear Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
(English - Shakir)

And the next verse again mentions his final place and the one who obeys him.

Surah Al-Hashr, Verse 17:
فَكَانَ عَاقِبَتَهُمَا أَنَّهُمَا فِي النَّارِ خَالِدَيْنِ فِيهَا وَذَٰلِكَ جَزَاءُ الظَّالِمِينَ

Therefore the end of both of them is that they are both in the fire to abide therein, and that is the reward of the unjust.
(English - Shakir)

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See this http://holywatcher.narod.ru/iblis.pdf

Very dangerous path. 

They keep saying that Iblis did not prostrate because he did not want to worship other than Allah. However the Quran, and Iblis' response in the Quran is not so! Iblis says in the Quran that he did not prostrate because Adam a.s. was made of 'mud' ... in essence saying he is higher... or in other terminology known as 'Racism' and Arrogance. 

So why and where on earth are these people forcing the image that Iblis acted out of love for God?? Completely absurd. 

@Haydar Husayn

Edited by YAli

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What exactly is wrong with the statement?. could be a perfect possibility.

11 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Not surprising that these words came from Al-Halla

I read his wiki, sounds like a normal guy to me. Show me the what in his works that makes you LOL.

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52 minutes ago, monad said:

What exactly is wrong with the statement?. could be a perfect possibility.

Have you seen the verses of Quran mentioned above?

How can disobeying Allah out of arrogance, becomes the act of love?

Surah Sad, Verse 74:
إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ اسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ

But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
(English - Shakir)

 

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54 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Have you seen the verses of Quran mentioned above?

How can disobeying Allah out of arrogance, becomes the act of love?

Surah Sad, Verse 74:
إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ اسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ

But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
(English - Shakir)

 

The narration comes from Hallaj who himself said he is The Truth, but the saying is far from truth.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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 to prove who loves God without expecting anything in return[28] and he would rather go to hell than bow down to something that is not God. 

Is not love of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى nothing but obeying and worship him in all matters? How can it be love of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and disobey him? That is not Aql.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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yes, God is punishing based on his own injunction, ie, to disobey God, means God then decides that is unruly. where as the devil in his own mind decided that it was other wise. In Fact the devil is acting justly according to his own intelligencia, and that he could not know whether God was playing him or not. Here, we decide or are told that when God says do, we must do, but what if God was testing him. That is where it seems the devil did not know what the true command was, and thus he decided to do what he thought was right. Now the Quran is telling us a fact, according to what happened, but has the devil told us his side of the story? or why he made a choice that negated a command of God?.

Why would he claim otherwise, considering he knew God for a longer period?. Where are all the facts in this story.

Anā l-Ḥaqq "I am The Truth, " <--- this could mean many things?, why do you think it means he is God?. You clearly have not read it properly. I am not defending the guy, fact is I don't care, but it is irritating when the implication is that, something is taken as fact, when there are multitudes of variations.

 

 

Edited by monad

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14 minutes ago, monad said:

yes, God is punishing based on his own injunction, ie, to disobey God, means God then decides that is unruly. where as the devil in his own mind decided that it was other wise. In Fact the devil is acting justly according to his own intelligencia, and that he could not know whether God was playing him or not. Here, we decide or are told that when God says do, we must do, but what if God was testing him. That is where it seems the devil did not know what the true command was, and thus he decided to do what he thought was right. Now the Quran is telling us a fact, according to what happened, but has the devil told us his side of the story? or why he made a choice that negated a command of God?.

Why would he claim otherwise, considering he knew God for a longer period?. Where are all the facts in this story.

Anā l-Ḥaqq "I am The Truth, " <--- this could mean many things?, why do you think it means he is God?. You clearly have not read it properly. I am not defending the guy, fact is I don't care, but it is irritating when the implication is that, something is taken as fact, when there are multitudes of variations.

 

 

 

فارغ از خود شدم و كوس اناالحق بزدم.

. همچو منصور خریدار سر دار شدم

Farigh az Khud shudam wa koos anal haq bezadam.

Hamchu Mansoor kharidar sare dar shudam.

I forget my own existence 4and proclaimed the slogan -'I am the truth', and like the Mansoor Hallaj volunteered my self for hanging5.

IMAM KHOMINE 

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11 minutes ago, monad said:

yes, God is punishing based on his own injunction, ie, to disobey God, means God then decides that is unruly. where as the devil in his own mind decided that it was other wise. In Fact the devil is acting justly according to his own intelligencia, and that he could not know whether God was playing him or not. Here, we decide or are told that when God says do, we must do, but what if God was testing him. That is where it seems the devil did not know what the true command was, and thus he decided to do what he thought was right. Now the Quran is telling us a fact, according to what happened, but has the devil told us his side of the story? or why he made a choice that negated a command of God?.

Why would he claim otherwise, considering he knew God for a longer period?. Where are all the facts in this story.

Anā l-Ḥaqq "I am The Truth, " <--- this could mean many things?, why do you think it means he is God?. You clearly have not read it properly. I am not defending the guy, fact is I don't care, but it is irritating when the implication is that, something is taken as fact, when there are multitudes of variations.

 

 

With the greatest amount of respect, have you even read the Quran?

I just cannot get my mind around this. God ASKS iblees why he did not follow the command. And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.

The the devil TELLS his side if the story, [ Allah ] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

Please read the above, and i look forward to what you have to say in response to this. 

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25 minutes ago, monad said:

. Now the Quran is telling us a fact, according to what happened, but has the devil told us his side of the story? or why he made a choice that negated a command of God?.

 

Asad : [And God] said: "What has kept thee from prostrating thyself when I commanded thee?" Answered [Iblis]: "I am better than he: Thou hast created me out of fire, whereas him Thou hast created out of clay."
Malik : Allah said: "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" He replied: "I am better than he; you created me from fire and him from clay."
Pickthall : He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.
Yusuf Ali : (Allah) said: "what prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: thou didst create me from fire and him from clay."

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Can you measure the respect you have for me?.

That is but one line in a whole scenario. It is too simplistic in terms of making a decision against an absolute authority. If he KNEW GOD, why would he go against the command, unless he believed other wise. One does not go against something unless they believe they have a strong case. Question is, why did he believe he was better?, that is not arrogance, it is reason using past experience. If I showed you a baby and claimed he is better then you, would you agree upon it or at least demand proof?. How strong would the proof have to be, that you would then deny your own very strenght and knowledge?.

What is the difference between fire and clay?. Both are creations but they vary in their build. Is one stronger then the other?. Fire can be extinguished via water, clay can be soften via water, or is the fire here a different type of fire and the clay follows the same suit.

Edited by monad

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8 minutes ago, monad said:

Can you measure the respect you have for me?.

That is but one line in a whole scenario. It is too simplistic in terms of making a decision against an absolute authority. If he KNEW GOD, why would he go against the command, unless he believed other wise. One does not go against something unless they believe they have a strong case. Question is, why did he believe he was better?, that is not arrogance, it is reason using past experience. If I showed you a baby and claimed he is better then you, would you agree upon it or at least demand proof?. How strong would the proof have to be, that you would then deny your own very strenght and knowledge?.

What is the difference between fire and clay?. Both are creations but they vary in their build. Is one stronger then the other?. Fire can be extinguished via water, clay can be soften via water, or is the fire here a different type of fire and the clay follows the same suit.

Let me reply with Quranic verse. 

Yusuf Ali
Not so Iblis: he was haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith.
Sahih International
Except Iblees; he was arrogant and became among the disbelievers.
Shakir
But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
Pickthall
Saving Iblis; he was scornful and became one of the disbelievers.
 
Now let me make clear, there are people i've bumped into people in my lifetime who see the truth, yet no matter much they know it's the truth, they do not acknowledge it is the truth.There is too much pride and arrogance and ego to accept it. Families will break up, divorces will happen, murders will be committed, yet they will not accept the truth. 
So really, i do not see why you are trying to jump to great lengths to make things up, when the Lord of the universe himself has told us he is our open enemy, a kaafir, arrogant etc. 
Really. 

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Here, we decide or are told that when God says do, we must do, but what if God was testing him

Then you do it! In the day of Judgement you can say to God you asked me to do, so I did!

Quote

That is where it seems the devil did not know what the true command was,

When Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى commands you to do something, YOU DO IT. Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى commanded Ibrahim (as) to sacrifice his Son, and Ibrahim actually did it.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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omg like how could he write this, he must be ignoble too. No one is going to great lenghts, the difference is that 2+2 = 4 - 1 = 3 simple maths, you get me.

14 minutes ago, YAli said:

Now let me make clear, there are people i've bumped into people in my lifetime who see the truth, yet no matter much they know it's the truth, they do not acknowledge it is the truth.There is too much pride and arrogance and ego to accept it. Families will break up, divorces will happen, murders will be committed, yet they will not accept the truth. 

This is irrelevant?......People kill for food. Hunger is the truth too. Back to the point.

As none of you have answered it, because we have no evidence. Why did he decide to act contrary to what he was commanded when he knew the power of GOD?. Either he did not know GOD or he at least had an idea of GOD, which is it?. There are works of mortals who have lived lesser years and have understood God from their own ideas, yet here this devil who has been proclaimed to be in the presence of God, never understood him, yet was in a high position?.

He was declared and open enemy when he claimed he would then act to disrupt the game, but yet was allowed. How can one allow an enemy free reign?.

Edited by monad

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70000 years of worshiping and yet does not understand that Everything what Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى commands needs to be obeyed? Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى answered in the Qur'an his real nature was proudness. How can a proud man claim he love God?

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Here his pride could means he could hold a conversation, discussion, barter with God, thus making him an equal?. Now, what made him come to that conclusion, to claim it is proudness is simplistic. Ohh do not be proud dear children, but be proud to love  and worship God, but you said do not be proud?.....

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3 minutes ago, monad said:

omg like how could he write this, he must be ignoble too. No one is going to great lenghts, the difference is that 2+2 = 4 - 1 = 3 simple maths, you get me.

This is irrelevant?......People kill for food. Hunger is the truth too. Back to the point.

As none of you have answered it, because we have no evidence. Why did he decide to act contrary to what he was commanded when he knew the power of GOD?. Either he did not know GOD or he at least had an idea of GOD, which is it?. There are works of mortals who have lived lesser years and have understood God from their own ideas, yet here this devil who has been proclaimed to be in the presence of God, never understood him, yet was in a high position?.

He was declared and open enemy when he claimed he would then act to disrupt the game, but yet was allowed. How can one allow an enemy free reign?.

In reference to your point in bold; is Allah's explanation too weak for you in the Quran? Which we have pasted many times above. 

In terms of the rest, well there are many people who know the power of God and pray but yet still sin or go astray at some point - Do they sin out of love? Do they go astray out of love??? 

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Just now, monad said:

Here his pride could means he could hold a conversation, discussion, barter with God, thus making him an equal?. Now, what made him come to that conclusion, to claim it is proudness is simplistic. Ohh do not be proud dear children, but be proud to love  and worship God, but you said do not be proud?.....

Brother, Iblis answered: "I am better than him. " Is that not enough answer to you? 

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1 minute ago, monad said:

Here his pride could means he could hold a conversation, discussion, barter with God, thus making him an equal?. Now, what made him come to that conclusion, to claim it is proudness is simplistic. Ohh do not be proud dear children, but be proud to love  and worship God, but you said do not be proud?.....

I think you really are trying to stretch and twist the words of Allah very very much. Very much indeed. 

Your God, and my God, Allah, has made clear what happened. Now the rest you can assume and imagine. 

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