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Asslam Alaikum,

Hope you all are fine and well. 

The question just popped out in my mind. Is murtid wajib qatal? Not as per you or me. I know the general norm passed  from generation to generation. I wanna what Quran o Hadees says? 

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I remember studying Sulah Hudaibya during my school years,  i'm sure most of you will too. One of the terms of this treaty was:


“In your name, O God!
This is the treaty of peace between Muhammad Ibn Abdullah and Suhayl ibn Amr. They have agreed to allow their arms to rest for ten years. During this time each party shall be secure, and neither shall injure the other; no secret damage shall be inflicted, but honesty and honour shall prevail between them. Whoever in Arabia wishes to enter into a treaty or covenant with Muhammad can do so, and whoever wishes to enter into a treaty or covenant with the Quraysh can do so. And if a Quraysh´ite comes without the permission of his guardian to Muhammad, he shall be delivered up to the Quraysh; but if, on the other hand, one of Muhammad's people comes to the Quraysh, he shall not be delivered up to Muhammad. This year, Muhammad, with his companions, must withdraw from Mecca, but next year, he may come to Mecca and remain for three days, yet without their weapons except those of a traveler, the swords remaining in their sheaths.”

Now, here it is clear  that the one who leaves Prohpet S.A.W and joins Quraysh has indemnity. 

Thoughts?

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Just a short article you can read to understand who is Murtad (Apostate) and why the case of Wajib ul Qatl.

Rules are different for Murtad e fitri and Murtad e milli and also for men and women.

The article explains the same Using Qur'an and ahadeeth (sahih) very clearly. Also answers all the refutations made using misinterpretation of Qur'an.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/apostacy-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi

Edited by Waseem162

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1 hour ago, Waseem162 said:

The article explains the same Using Qur'an and ahadeeth (sahih) very clearly. Also answers all the refutations made using misinterpretation of Qur'an.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/apostacy-islam-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi

I skimmed through the link. From what i gather, it states that Quran has mentioned apostate's punishment after death and has not indicated if one becomes polytheist, what to do with him in his life. 

There are different cases of Imams A.S where they decreed capital punishment but no direct rule. 

So if anyone asks show me this in Quran. Or Lets assume a non Muslim accuses  that we have made this rule on our own and Quran does not asks us to do such a thing then i can't present him with logical answer.

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13 minutes ago, Messam RAza said:

I skimmed through the link. From what i gather, it states that Quran has mentioned apostate's punishment after death and has not indicated if one becomes polytheist, what to do with him in his life. 

There are different cases of Imams A.S where they decreed capital punishment but no direct rule. 

So if anyone asks show me this in Quran. Or Lets assume a non Muslim accuses  that we have made this rule on our own and Quran does not asks us to do such a thing then i can't present him with logical answer.

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ وَ عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ جَمِيعاً عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنِ الْعَلَاءِ بْنِ رَزِينٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ ع عَنِ الْمُرْتَدِّ فَقَالَ مَنْ رَغِبَ عَنِ الْإِسْلَامِ وَ كَفَرَ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ص بَعْدَ إِسْلَامِهِ فَلَا تَوْبَةَ لَهُ وَ قَدْ وَجَبَ قَتْلُهُ وَ بَانَتْ مِنْهُ امْرَأَتُهُ وَ يُقْسَمُ مَا تَرَكَ عَلَى وُلْدِهِ
 

From Muhammad bin Muslim said: That I said Abaa Ja`far (عليه السلام) about the apostate (murtad). So he(عليه السلام) said: “Whoever turns away from Islaam, and disbelieves in what Allaah has revealed to the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) after being a Muslim, there is no repentance for him, and it is waajib (obligatory) to kill him, and his wife becomes a stranger to him, and his legacy be divided among his children.”

Source: Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 256, hadeeth # 1

Grading: Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan Kal-SaHeeH (Good like an Authentic (hadeeth)) à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 23, pg. 396

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنِ الْعَمْرَكِيِّ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ النَّيْسَابُورِيِّ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ أَخِيهِ أَبِي الْحَسَنِ ع قَالَ سَأَلْتُهُ عَنْ مُسْلِمٍ تَنَصَّرَ قَالَ يُقْتَلُ وَ لَا يُسْتَتَابُ قُلْتُ فَنَصْرَانِيٌّ أَسْلَمَ ثُمَّ ارْتَدَّ عَنِ الْإِسْلَامِ قَالَ يُسْتَتَابُ فَإِنْ رَجَعَ وَ إِلَّا قُتِلَ
 

From `Alee bin Ja`far from his brother Abee Al-Hasan(عليه السلام) said: I asked him (عليه السلام) about a Muslim who becomes a Christian. He (عليه السلام) said: “He (should be) killed, and no repentance from him” I said: “What about a Christian who becomes Muslim then Apostates from Islaam?” He (عليه السلام) said: “He is asked to repent. And if he returns (to Islaam that is okay), or otherwise he is killed”

Source: Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 257, hadeeth # 10

Grading: Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable) à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 23, pg. 400

________

Credit of translation to brother @Nader Zaveri

There are more hadiths on this topic, even the ones in the link you were given by brother @Waseem162 should be clear enough. But if you're still not satisfied, the above should be clear enough.

Edited by E.L King

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21 minutes ago, Messam RAza said:

I skimmed through the link. From what i gather, it states that Quran has mentioned apostate's punishment after death and has not indicated if one becomes polytheist, what to do with him in his life. 

There are different cases of Imams A.S where they decreed capital punishment but no direct rule. 

So if anyone asks show me this in Quran. Or Lets assume a non Muslim accuses  that we have made this rule on our own and Quran does not asks us to do such a thing then i can't present him with logical answer.

It is clearly written in the article that we basic humans can't comprehend every ayah of Quran. Therefore Sunnah and Hadeeth are necessary too.

And in Shia school of thought we have many Sahih hadeeth from many Imams about the punishment of being Murtad. 

Just like we use many narrations to prove Wilayah of Imam Ali and other things which are not very easily comprehensible in Quran. In the same way we have to take help of ahadeeth in this case.

Also there is no contradiction in Quran and ahadeeth over this matter. Because Quran explicitly tells the punishment in Hereafter. It doesn't means there is no punishment in the World. Also it is proven by Aql that the punishment is valid and apt.

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16 hours ago, Waseem162 said:

Also it is proven by Aql that the punishment is valid and apt.

As per my aql the punishment (qital) is not ok. I am a simple man. I find reasons in every thing. I have reason to believe in existence of God and not because my parents are Muslims. I have reason to believe on Muhammad S.A.W and Prophets A.S before that. I have reason to have what ever  belief i have. 
What i am trying to say is that we all know and came across different ahadees being associated to Muhammad S.A.W which "aql" cant begin to comprehend that he could have said such a thing. So associating something to Imama A.S is not such a big deal for "historians".

But as all sects of muslims agree on this, i presume its the rightful punishment but still it does not mean that i am ok with it. I think humans have time to repent till natural death. Obviously if Imam A.S have truly ruled this in particular matter then my emotions or aql is useless and that's the way to go.

I was browsing through Quora when i came across this question by a non-muslim.

"Does Quran says that kill a person that leaves Islam?"

Now we claim that Quran is most complete and authentic book. Also "Surely, God does not shy away from teaching you truth" [33:53]. How do one answers a non believer ?

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2 hours ago, Messam RAza said:

As per my aql the punishment (qital) is not ok. I am a simple man. I find reasons in every thing. I have reason to believe in existence of God and not because my parents are Muslims. I have reason to believe on Muhammad S.A.W and Prophets A.S before that. I have reason to have what ever  belief i have. 
What i am trying to say is that we all know and came across different ahadees being associated to Muhammad S.A.W which "aql" cant begin to comprehend that he could have said such a thing. So associating something to Imama A.S is not such a big deal for "historians".

But as all sects of muslims agree on this, i presume its the rightful punishment but still it does not mean that i am ok with it. I think humans have time to repent till natural death. Obviously if Imam A.S have truly ruled this in particular matter then my emotions or aql is useless and that's the way to go.

I was browsing through Quora when i came across this question by a non-muslim.

"Does Quran says that kill a person that leaves Islam?"

Now we claim that Quran is most complete and authentic book. Also "Surely, God does not shy away from teaching you truth" [33:53]. How do one answers a non believer ?

This punishment is posed because this will discourage people to leave Islam and to discuss the doubts arising in their minds with the scholars. Allah has filled this Earth with his Signs (Knowledge, Creation, Adab, Akhlaq, Miracles, etc). A person will be saved by discussion because most of the times simply his doubt will be cleared.

So this punishment has 2 notions - 

1. To discourage people from taking quick decisions based on their faith and and invitation towards argument and discussion.

2. To protect the community from Corruption. As the law clearly states, A Murtad living in "Muslim society" is bound to be killed.

Because if he lives in Muslim society, he will cause others to go astray too. That'll be a huge loss to the society and corruption will expand. But if he lives in the Non Muslim community then he is set free because in that case there is no harm to Muslim society.

 

Other major notion is the Love of God. God doesn't wants His servant to go astray due to whispers of Satan after Knowledge has come to him. He want to save his Hereafter.

There are many other punishments which completely discourage corruption.

Also the Love of God to protect us from being corrupted because we are more prone to Satanic temptation and Ignorance.

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1 hour ago, Waseem162 said:

This punishment is posed because this will discourage people to leave Islam and to discuss the doubts arising in their minds with the scholars. Allah has filled this Earth with his Signs (Knowledge, Creation, Adab, Akhlaq, Miracles, etc). A person will be saved by discussion because most of the times simply his doubt will be cleared.

I  understand what you are trying to say but kindly understand what i am trying to ask.

You are saying that how leaving Islam should be punishable by death.

I am asking its not about what should be and how it should be, its about what is ruling in this matter. And whether any Ayyah  directly hints towards this ruling ?

1 hour ago, Waseem162 said:

 I completely agree but similar to above discussion in link there is no reference to Quran. 
I understand that even treason against country is punishable by death then why not for religion. But what i want you to understand that rulings are not as per yours and mine understanding. If that so then i say it should not be done like this. 

Its matter of life and death of a human being. It cant be interpreted that easily as per one's thinking. Same Islam asks to respect every human being regardless of their religion and color. 

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6 hours ago, Messam RAza said:

I  understand what you are trying to say but kindly understand what i am trying to ask.

You are saying that how leaving Islam should be punishable by death.

I am asking its not about what should be and how it should be, its about what is ruling in this matter. And whether any Ayyah  directly hints towards this ruling ?

 I completely agree but similar to above discussion in link there is no reference to Quran. 
I understand that even treason against country is punishable by death then why not for religion. But what i want you to understand that rulings are not as per yours and mine understanding. If that so then i say it should not be done like this. 

Its matter of life and death of a human being. It cant be interpreted that easily as per one's thinking. Same Islam asks to respect every human being regardless of their religion and color. 

Quran has not talked about the punishment of Apostaty in this world. But we have Sahih hadeeths from Imams.

Quran doesn't tell everything explicitly. 

When Imam Ali said that "all secrets and knowledge is condensed in Quran" then it means we can't access it but they can.

So its better to be satisfied with the hadeetha and Marajes have done a lot of study to accept these hadeeth and Law.

And you're not being killed for your belief but your action.

Flee to any other Non Muslim country and you're free but if you harm Muslim society by your Apostasy then you are ought to be killed as you are a corrupter.

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7 hours ago, Waseem162 said:

Quran has not talked about the punishment of Apostaty in this world. But we have Sahih hadeeths from Imams.

Quran doesn't tell everything explicitly. 

When Imam Ali said that "all secrets and knowledge is condensed in Quran" then it means we can't access it but they can.

So its better to be satisfied with the hadeetha and Marajes have done a lot of study to accept these hadeeth and Law.

And you're not being killed for your belief but your action.

Flee to any other Non Muslim country and you're free but if you harm Muslim society by your Apostasy then you are ought to be killed as you are a corrupter.

Yesterday I talked to an Islamic cleric and he told me that the rule of Apostasy came when the Fateh of Mecca happened. The enemies were still there and the Islamic govt was in very nascent stage. To avoid the chaos and corruption such law was sent by Allah so that people don't get overwhelmed by the rules of Islam (they were the people of Jahiliya, you can understand) and don't leave Islam out of confusion. 

So people were made indirectly encouraged to discuss more and more and to become satisfied.

The seriousness and harshness of this law was for such situations when Islam could be corrupted by conspirators easily. 

 

Now in this era, This rule has been greatly relaxed and an Apostate until and unless if he does something very serious to Islam or Muslim society only then he'll be booked under this law. Salman Rushdie (l.a) is a very clear example. There are many Apostates living in the Islamic countries (except Saudi) where they are not booked for such a punishment.

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Quote

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ وَ عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ جَمِيعاً عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنِ الْعَلَاءِ بْنِ رَزِينٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ ع عَنِ الْمُرْتَدِّ فَقَالَ مَنْ رَغِبَ عَنِ الْإِسْلَامِ وَ كَفَرَ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ ص بَعْدَ إِسْلَامِهِ فَلَا تَوْبَةَ لَهُ وَ قَدْ وَجَبَ قَتْلُهُ وَ بَانَتْ مِنْهُ امْرَأَتُهُ وَ يُقْسَمُ مَا تَرَكَ عَلَى وُلْدِهِ
 

From Muhammad bin Muslim said: That I said Abaa Ja`far (عليه السلام) about the apostate (murtad). So he(عليه السلام) said: “Whoever turns away from Islaam, and disbelieves in what Allaah has revealed to the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) after being a Muslim, there is no repentance for him, and it is waajib (obligatory) to kill him, and his wife becomes a stranger to him, and his legacy be divided among his children.”

Source: Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 256, hadeeth # 1

Grading: Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan Kal-SaHeeH (Good like an Authentic (hadeeth)) à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 23, pg. 396

@E.L King Can you brother give more detail about what it means turns away from Islam. What if the person recognize his ignorance and returns to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, the repentance is not accepted? 

Is this about the person who mock the religion?

Edited by Dhulfikar

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10 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

@E.L King Can you brother give more detail about what it means turns away from Islam. What if the person recognize his ignorance and returns to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, the repentance is not accepted? 

Is this about the person who mock the religion?

I will pm u bro

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