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A Thought:

What is wrong Muslim Men? l was reading about a new marriage app or some such nonsense. When will Men realize they are going to be unhappy with whomever they talk themselves into marrying?

For example, Men have to write a profile of themselves. l'd be honest about mine. Decrepit Dotard. What interest will a cute, rich girl want with that?

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2 hours ago, hasanhh said:

A Thought:

What is wrong Muslim Men? l was reading about a new marriage app or some such nonsense. When will Men realize they are going to be unhappy with whomever they talk themselves into marrying?

For example, Men have to write a profile of themselves. l'd be honest about mine. Decrepit Dotard. What interest will a cute, rich girl want with that?

Sounds like someone sent out a few unanswered messages

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8 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Sounds like someone sent out a few unanswered messages

Touche`

l also left out a couple of adjectives: Disagreeable and Discourteous

And as old and fragile as l iz gettin', Delicate --as in 'handle with care', like explosives.  :dwarf:"Who absconded with my remote?"

So to summarize, a Delicate, Discourteous, Disagreeable, Decrepit, Dotard.

5 Ds.   Like my grade skool report cards.

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12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

A Thought:

What is wrong Muslim Men? l was reading about a new marriage app or some such nonsense. When will Men realize they are going to be unhappy with whomever they talk themselves into marrying?

For example, Men have to write a profile of themselves. l'd be honest about mine. Decrepit Dotard. What interest will a cute, rich girl want with that?

Such things like "marriage" websites and apps only lead to corruption on Earth and and allows transgression of Allah to flourish in the land.

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1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

Or to peace and imaan for some cases. 

Well, that's if they are not considered impermissible to use in the first place. If it is permissible then only if there is absolutely no fear of committing sin or being pulled towards sin - and one of these sins is banter talk (as per Sistani).

Look at these fatwas:

السؤال: انا احب شاب وواعدني بالزواج واراسله عبر الانترنت واكلمه بالتلفون يجوز ام لا ؟

الجواب: لا يجوز فاتقي الله .

(Rough translation)

Question: I love a man and he has promised to marry me and I message him through the internet and talk to him via telephone, is this permissible or not?

Answer: it is not permissible therefore itaqi Allah

More here:

https://www.sistani.org/arabic/qa/0410/

Yea, these websites are not a good idea. If people held onto the Sunnah and traditional way of marriage then these issues would be minimal insha Allah.

Edited by E.L King

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I must agree that in the process of talking and knowing there could be sinning, but after knowing and after getting marriage it could lead to obedience of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and Imaan and forgiveness. Some people don't have any social connection with other family living in west, so finding a spouse in internet could only be the only option.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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5 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

I must agree that in the process of talking and knowing there could be sinning, but after knowing and after getting marriage it could lead to obedience of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and Imaan and forgiveness. Some people don't have any social connection with other family living in west, so finding a spouse in internet could only be the only option.

Brother, ends do not justify means in the Shari'ah except in specified cases. This is not one of those cases at all. 

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2 hours ago, E.L King said:

Such things like "marriage" websites and apps only lead to corruption on Earth and and allows transgression of Allah to flourish in the land.

That really depends on who uses them and how. If sincere and honest people use them to find a suitable spouse, where is the corruption?

No, the corruption isn't in the concept of the sites, but in the very flawed humans using them in terrible ways.

I met my husband on a "marriage website/app". For people who live in areas where there are few Shia, these type of sites are a great timesaver. One needs to be aware of the idiots and perverts, but those are easy enough to detect and screen out - just trust no one until you've been given ample reason.

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21 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Yea, these websites are not a good idea. If people held onto the Sunnah and traditional way of marriage then these issues would be minimal insha Allah.

Well yes. But the concept of the sites isn't the problem. Perhaps the necessity of their existence is a symptom of a bigger problem of splintered community and lack of connection to fellow human beings. 

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4 minutes ago, notme said:

That really depends on who uses them and how. If sincere and honest people use them to find a suitable spouse, where is the corruption?

No, the corruption isn't in the concept of the sites, but in the very flawed humans using them in terrible ways.

I met my husband on a "marriage website/app". For people who live in areas where there are few Shia, these type of sites are a great timesaver. One needs to be aware of the idiots and perverts, but those are easy enough to detect and screen out - just trust no one until you've been given ample reason.

Like I said, are they even halal to use in the first place?

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15 hours ago, E.L King said:

Like I said, are they even halal to use in the first place?

Wait what happens to married Muslim couple that used the site, the marriage is void because they used unhalal site or when they were knowing each other they sin?

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I can only say that there is nothing like a "muslim" dating app. An app has no religion and cannot strictly prevent sinful use.

Moreover, another thing to take into consideration is how successful are these apps (and by success I mean the number of halal good unions it helps creating compared to the abuse/harrassment cases). When I look at the statistics of the most known dating apps in the market, they are really inefficient (significantly weird in sexually "open" societies).

Apart from the fiqhi standpoint which I am honestly unaware of, I believe this subject should take into consideration the big picture and evaluate the real data.

Nonetheless, it is true that these app/sites have proven needed for many muslim men and women who, otherwise, wouldn't have found a suitable partner, so it becomes important for experts to do actual research on how to solve this problem. I believe technology is there to help, but we cannot design products based on apps and sites that have proven inefficient and leaving room for abuse and harrassment.

TL, DR: there is an evident hardship to find a suitable partner nowaday, but dating apps/webs are most likely not the best way to solve this problem. More research to find solutions is needed.

Edited by Bakir

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2 hours ago, E.L King said:

Like I said, are they even halal to use in the first place?

Not if there is fear of falling into sin. Otherwise, what's the problem? 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

Not if there is fear of falling into sin. Otherwise, what's the problem? 

It's not haraam in and of itself. One of the Sheikh's I know (he used to answer questions from A. Khamenei's office) was discussing marriage sites on one of the English Shia TV stations. 

One thing that is important when sending marja' a question is to define the terms that one uses. Otherwise there will be confusion.

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13 hours ago, notme said:

Not if there is fear of falling into sin. Otherwise, what's the problem? 

The fatwa I posted in the previous page seems to indicate otherwise. Perhaps a clearer fatwa is more needed. I will contact the Sayyed's office insha Allah.

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15 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

I must agree that in the process of talking and knowing there could be sinning, but after knowing and after getting marriage it could lead to obedience of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and Imaan and forgiveness. Some people don't have any social connection with other family living in west, so finding a spouse in internet could only be the only option.

The first thing is to make sure the youth have enough self-esteem. If you suffer from low self-esteem and you have someone interested, it can be in cases more difficult to stay true to yourself and your morals when for the first time someone has shown an interest. People need to be happy with their own-selves and marriage also should not be something they seek to fill gaps. 

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On 11/15/2017 at 7:01 AM, E.L King said:

Yea, these websites are not a good idea. If people held onto the Sunnah and traditional way of marriage then these issues would be minimal insha Allah.

This is just empty rhetoric hammered by those in privileged communities, who give little in practical solutions for the less fortunate. What does “traditional way of marriage” mean? The auntie system in some ethnic center? 

Our present time is a virtual one. That’s our reality. People shop, engage in religious debates, make friends, study for university, all online. Do we really think marriage and match making won’t follow this trend? How about instead of smugly denouncing the inevitable medium of our age, we discuss creative ways to innovate and adapt? How about credible people and organizations stepping up and finding ways to make it work properly?

Instead nothing meaningful is offered. The fatwa you cite doesn’t mention marriage websites at all, or any description of how they may work, but only answers a generic gender relations question. This is how sloppy and careless this discourse becomes.

Those who like to close doors carte blanche rarely bother to open another. All people get are condemnations, a lack of compassion, and generalities that leave them cold and confused. Sad!

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6 hours ago, Reza said:

This is just empty rhetoric hammered by those in privileged communities, who give little in practical solutions for the less fortunate. What does “traditional way of marriage” mean? The auntie system in some ethnic center? 

Our present time is a virtual one. That’s our reality. People shop, engage in religious debates, make friends, study for university, all online. Do we really think marriage and match making won’t follow this trend? How about instead of smugly denouncing the inevitable medium of our age, we discuss creative ways to innovate and adapt? How about credible people and organizations stepping up and finding ways to make it work properly?

Instead nothing meaningful is offered. The fatwa you cite doesn’t mention marriage websites at all, or any description of how they may work, but only answers a generic gender relations question. This is how sloppy and careless this discourse becomes.

Those who like to close doors carte blanche rarely bother to open another. All people get are condemnations, a lack of compassion, and generalities that leave them cold and confused. Sad!

Innovation can go to Hell if it leads to haram.

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Speaking of "generic gender relations", have you ever seen the strictness of the rulings in this regard? 

How do you think this marriage website thing works? There won't be no "I love you" or "hahaha you're so funny"? You got to be naive then.

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59 minutes ago, E.L King said:

How do you think this marriage website thing works? There won't be no "I love you" or "hahaha you're so funny"? You got to be naive then.

No, there's not. Only if the individuals choose to engage in this behavior.

If you're going to declare matchmaking sites haram because people might use them to sin, you also have to declare haram the internet, television, movies, magazines, comic books, literature, conversations with people, computers, cameras, public places, ..... 

The concept of the sites isn't the problem. The choices of the individual can be right or wrong. That's why fatwas about male-female interaction almost invariably include the words "if there is fear of falling into sin". 

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I definitely do not recommend matchmaking websites as a first choice. It's much safer to marry someone in your local community, so you can find out about their character from unbiased sources. They're a good option for people who are mature enough to make wise choices, and who are unable to find a spouse in their own community. 

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So I found out if it is halal or not and the answer was it is not permissible if there is a fear of falling into sin as is the case most of the time. And it is certainly not recommended due to that.

4 hours ago, notme said:

If you're going to declare matchmaking sites haram because people might use them to sin, you also have to declare haram the internet, television, movies, magazines, comic books, literature, conversations with people, computers, cameras, public places, ..... 

I never declared anything haram, but the difference between the examples you brought up is that they are too generalised. 

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