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Salaam,

Our Sunni brothers often give credit to Caliph Uthman for compiling the Quran. His credit is not just that he organized the Surahs from longest to shortest but that he actually organized the verses into Surahs.

Additionally, they say that Allah revealed the Quran in 7 ahraf and the Prophet left the Quran as such, Caliph Uthman took it upon himself to consolidate the Quran into 1 huruf. No one knows if he chose 1 out of the 7 ahraf or combined them into an 8th huruf and that became the official version of the Quran.

If Allah chose 7 ahraf and Prophet left 7 ahraf, who gave Caliph Uthman the right to reject 6 otu of 7 or all 7 ahraf? Is that not kufur?

But let's say, all of the above happened. How do we reconcile this "achievement" of Caliph Uthman in light of this hadith:

‘Abd Allah b. ‘Abbas said:
‘Umar b. al-Khattab gave an address saying: Allah sent Muhammad (ﷺ) with truth and sent down the Books of him, and the verse of stoning was included in what He sent down to him. We read it and memorized it. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had people stoned to death and we have done it also since his death. I am afraid the people might say with the passage of time: We do not find the verse of stoning in the Books of Allah, and thus they stray by abandoning a duty which Allah had received. Stoning is a duty laid down (by Allah) for married men and women who commit fornication when proof is established, or if there is pregnancy, or a confession. I swear by Allah, had it not been so that the people might say: ‘Umar made an addition to Allah’s Book, I would have written it (there).
Sunan Abi Dawud
Book 40, Hadith 68
Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/68

It is quite evident from the sahih hadith above, that the Quran already existed. Otherwise, why would Caliph Umar fear the people for adding to the Book of Allah. Surely he would have simply consulted with the resident Quranic expert (Caliph Uthman???) and slotted the rajm verse where appropriate. But he didnt.

He specifically mentions "Book" and fear of adding to it meaning it was in its final state.

Bear in mind, caliph Umar died before Caliph Uthman became the Caliph so it becomes highly unlikely that Caliph Uthman did anything to the Quran.

It seems to me that the myth of Quran compilation by Caliph Uthman was perpetuated to cover for his failed caliphate which was fraught with nepotism and corruption.

Caliph Uthman compiled the Quran???

Screen-Shot-2013-11-20-at-8.07.15-AM.png

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This one is just of many things." Aslat khair min Noom" and traweeh are two more common and easily perceived examples of addition/modification made after PBUH but no one bat an eye on these issues. 
Even, i remember studying, hadees about traweeh being offered ba-jmaat only 3 days, in my Intermediate course book (Pakistan).

And still we see it being read through out Ramadan.

Coming back to topic, yes sunni brothers admit that caliphates compiled Quran into surahs and arranged surahs as they are now. Quran was revealed verse by verse and was not compiled by PBUH. So i guess by definition its also "Bidaat".

___________________________________________________________________________

YA QAEM A.S ALAJAL

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Adding to it 

 

    The Quran Compiled by Imam Ali (AS)

There is no dispute among Muslim scholars, whether they are Sunni or Shia,
concerning the fact that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS), possessed a
special transcript of the text of Quran which he had collected himself, and
he was THE FIRST who compiled Quran. There are a great number of traditions
from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet
(PBUH&HF), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an
oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until
he collects together the Quran.

Sunni references:
- Fat'hul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10,
  p386
- al-fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, p30
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p165
- al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawud, p10
- Hilyatul awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, p67
- al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, p79
- 'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, v20, p16
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, pp 112-113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p31


There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92,
pp 40-41,48,51-52).


This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following
unique specifications:

a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in
which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen
(33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the
companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not
passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in
our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."

Sunni References:
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Ansab al-ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, p587
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, pp 973-974
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v6, pp 40-41
- al-Tas'hil, by Ibn Juzzi al-Kalbi, v1, p4
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p166
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p32


It is according to this transcript that Sunni scholars relate that the
first Chapter of Quran which was sent down to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was
Chapter al-Iqra (al-Alaq, Ch. 96).

Sunni References:
- al-Burhan, by al-Zarkashi, v1, p259
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p202
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10, p417
- Irshad al-sari, by al-Qastalani, v7, p454

As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present
Quran. Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the
last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not
toward the end of the present Quran. This clearly proves that although
the Quran that we have available is complete, it is not in the order
that has been revealed. These few misplacements were done by some
companions on purpose at worst, or out of ignorance at least.

It was for this reason that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) frequently
stated in his sermons: "Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me
about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you
about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question
about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah,
for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was
sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain
or in a mountain."

Sunni References:
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p198
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
- Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107
- Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, p124
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319


b) This transcript contained commentary and hermeneutic interpretation
(Tafsir and Ta'wil) from the Holy Prophet some of which had been sent down
as revelation but NOT as a part of the text of Quran. A small amount of
such texts can be found in some traditions in Usul al-Kafi. These pieces of
information were the Divine commentary of the text of Quran which were
revealed along with Quranic verses. Thus the commentary verses and Quranic
verses could sum up to 17000 verses. As Sunnis know, Hadith al-Qudsi (the
Hadith in which the speaker is Allah) is also direct revelation, but they
are not a part of Quran. In fact Quran testifies that anything that Prophet
said was (either direct or indirect) revelation (See Quran 53:3-4). The
direct revelation includes the interpretation/commentary of the Quran.

In addition, this unique transcript contained the information from the Holy
Prophet about which verse was abrogated and which was abrogating, which
verse was clear (Muhkam) and which was ambiguous (Mutashabih), which verse
was general and which was specific.

c) This unique transcript also contained references to the persons, places
etc., about which the verses were revealed, what is called "Asbab al-
Nuzul". Since the Commander of Believers was aware of these facts, he
frequently said: "By Allah, no verse has been sent down without my knowing
about whom or what it was revealed and where it was revealed. My Lord has
gifted me with a mind which has a quick and retaining understanding, and a
tongue which speaks eloquently."

Sunni References:
- Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v1, pp 67-68
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, p113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197


After he compiled this transcript, Imam Ali (AS) took it and presented it
to the rulers who came after the Holy Prophet, and said: "Here is the book
of Allah, your Lord, in the order that was revealed to your Prophet."
but they did not accept it and replied: "We have no need of this. We have
with us what you possess." Thereupon, Imam Ali (AS) took the transcript
back and informed them that they will never see it again. It is reported
that Imam Ali recited the latter part of the following verse of Quran:

     "And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to
     clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but
     they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some
     miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"
     (Quran 3:187)

By "its clarification", Imam Ali meant the unique divine commentaries.
The Commander of Believers then concealed that transcript, and after him it
was passed to the Imams who also kept it concealed. It remained concealed
with the Imams, one after the other to this day, because they wished to be
only one sequence of Quran among the Muslims. Because otherwise if people
have had two different sequences, it might later result to some alteration
in Quran by some sick-minded people. They wished people have strictly one
sequence of Quran. The Quran and its commentary which were collected by
Imam Ali (AS) is not available for any Shia in the world except to the Imam
Mahdi (AS). If the transcript of the Commander of Believers had been
accepted, that would have been the Quran with unique commentary in the hand
of people, but it turned out to be otherwise.

This gives the meaning of the traditions in Usul al-Kafi which say that no
one but the Commander of Believers and the later Imams had the Quran in the
order it was revealed, and that the Quran which they had contains "what can
be understood of the heaven, etc." and "the Knowledge of the Book, all of
it," because they were the commentaries and interpretations noted in the
transcript of Imam Ali directly from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF).  Allah, to
whom belong Might and Majesty, said:

     "And We have sent down on you a Book in which is the clarification of
     ALL the things." (Quran 16:89)

Sometimes the word "tahrif" is used in some traditions, and it must be made
clear that the meaning of this word is changing of something from its
proper place to another place, like changing the right position of
sentence, or giving it a meaning other than its true or intended meaning.
Therefore, it has absolutely nothing to do with addition or subtraction
from the text. It is thus with this meaning that the Quran states:

     "Some of the Jews distort (yuharrifuna) words from their meaning"
     (Quran 4:46).

This meaning of "tahrif", i.e., changing of meaning or changing the
context, as it appears in the Quran, has not only been applied in the
Muslim community to the verses of the Quran but also to the ahadith of the
Holy Prophet, even by rulers who have been prepared to use Islam to their
own personal advantage. It is this "tahrif", with this meaning, that the
Imams of Ahlul-Bayt have constantly sought to oppose. As one example, Imam
al-Baqir (AS) complained about the situation of the Muslims and their
corrupt rulers, and said:

     "One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah
     behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its
     words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu
     hududah). They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe
     (what) it (says). Ignorant people delight in their preservation of its
     narration, but the knowledgeable people deplore their ignoring to
     observe (what) it (says)."

Shi'i references:
- al-Kafi, v8, p53
- al-Wafi, v5, p274 and v14, p214

This use of "tahrif" is taken as a definition for the word wherever it
appears in the ahadith of the Imams, similar to what Quran (4:46) has
used.

It is necessary to emphasize here that all grand scholars of the Imami Shia
are in agreement that the Quran which is at present among the Muslims is
the very same Quran that was sent down to the Holy Prophet, and that it has
not been altered. Nothing has been added to it, and nothing is missing from
it. The Quran which was compiled by Imam Ali (excluding the commentaries)
and the Quran that is in the hand of people today, are identical in terms
of words and sentences.  No word, verse, chapter is missing. The only
difference is that the current Quran (collected by the companions) is not
in the order that was revealed.

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the great Shia
scholar, Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Babwayh, known as
"Shaikh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

     "Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
     Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
     And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
     greater in extent than that. The number of Surahs as generally
     accepted is one hundred and fourteen...And he who asserts that we say
     that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaikh
                 Saduq, English version, p77.

It should be noted that Shaikh Saduq (RA) was the greatest scholars of
Hadith among the Imami Shia and was given the name of Shaikh al-Muhaddithin
(i.e., the most eminent of the scholars of Hadith). And since he wrote the
above in a book with the name of "The beliefs of the Imami Shia," it is
quite impossible that there could be any authentic Hadith in contrary to
it. It is noteworthy that Shaikh Saduq lived at the time of minor
occultation of Imam Mahdi (AS) and he is one of the earliest Shia scholars.
He had the honor that he was born with the prayer of Imam Mahdi (AS).

For a more detailed discussion of completeness of Quran as well as the
opinion of the Shia, interested readers may look at "al-Bayan," by Abul
Qasim al-Khoei, pp 214-278.

Some ignorant opponents of the Shia mentioned that we apply al-Taqiyya
(dissimulation) and we do not release our actual belief on Quran. These
people never tried to understand that Taqiyya is for the time when my life
or the life of the other fellow is in danger. There is no need to conceal
my belief here since I am not under prosecution. The above article is
witness to what I say. Taqiyya is not a good excuse for these people in
front of Allah to disregard what Shia present. They have liberty to check
the traditions which we have mentioned in different articles, or they can
else ask their "honest" scholars to do that.

And the truth is the best to be followed...

Wassalam.

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2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Salaam,

Our Sunni brothers often give credit to Caliph Uthman for compiling the Quran. His credit is not just that he organized the Surahs from longest to shortest but that he actually organized the verses into Surahs.

Additionally, they say that Allah revealed the Quran in 7 ahraf and the Prophet left the Quran as such, Caliph Uthman took it upon himself to consolidate the Quran into 1 huruf. No one knows if he chose 1 out of the 7 ahraf or combined them into an 8th huruf and that became the official version of the Quran.

If Allah chose 7 ahraf and Prophet left 7 ahraf, who gave Caliph Uthman the right to reject 6 otu of 7 or all 7 ahraf? Is that not kufur?

But let's say, all of the above happened. How do we reconcile this "achievement" of Caliph Uthman in light of this hadith:

‘Abd Allah b. ‘Abbas said:
‘Umar b. al-Khattab gave an address saying: Allah sent Muhammad (ﷺ) with truth and sent down the Books of him, and the verse of stoning was included in what He sent down to him. We read it and memorized it. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had people stoned to death and we have done it also since his death. I am afraid the people might say with the passage of time: We do not find the verse of stoning in the Books of Allah, and thus they stray by abandoning a duty which Allah had received. Stoning is a duty laid down (by Allah) for married men and women who commit fornication when proof is established, or if there is pregnancy, or a confession. I swear by Allah, had it not been so that the people might say: ‘Umar made an addition to Allah’s Book, I would have written it (there).
Sunan Abi Dawud
Book 40, Hadith 68
Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/68

It is quite evident from the sahih hadith above, that the Quran already existed. Otherwise, why would Caliph Umar fear the people for adding to the Book of Allah. Surely he would have simply consulted with the resident Quranic expert (Caliph Uthman???) and slotted the rajm verse where appropriate. But he didnt.

He specifically mentions "Book" and fear of adding to it meaning it was in its final state.

Bear in mind, caliph Umar died before Caliph Uthman became the Caliph so it becomes highly unlikely that Caliph Uthman did anything to the Quran.

It seems to me that the myth of Quran compilation by Caliph Uthman was perpetuated to cover for his failed caliphate which was fraught with nepotism and corruption.

Caliph Uthman compiled the Quran???

Screen-Shot-2013-11-20-at-8.07.15-AM.png

This is misleading... And enemies of Islam can use as argument to criticize Islam. There's no such thing as Uthmanic copy. We have the same copy that was compiled during the caliphate of Abu Bakr (r). The same Qur'an that Ali (a) added phonemes and most isnads trace through Ali (a). There's no Tahreef in the Qur'an or Uthmanic "version".

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27 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

This is misleading... And enemies of Islam can use as argument to criticize Islam. There's no such thing as Uthmanic copy. We have the same copy that was compiled during the caliphate of Abu Bakr (r). The same Qur'an that Ali (a) added phonemes and most isnads trace through Ali (a). There's no Tahreef in the Qur'an or Uthmanic "version".

I certainly hope so but there are plenty of sunnis who will disagree with you. Some of them on SC...

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7 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

I certainly hope so but there are plenty of sunnis who will disagree with you. Some of them on SC...

I don't care about them. And I don't follow their views. No one likes Uthman anyway.

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A quick look at the isnads of the Qur'an and you'll notice that most trace through Ali (a) and Zayd ibn Thabit (r). Uthman did nothing and Ali (a) was caliph after him he wouldn't let something this serious go without correcting.

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On 11/14/2017 at 5:49 PM, power said:

If Uthman was the compiler of the Quran, then for what reason did he burned thousand copies of the Quran? 

An other question that arises is that if Uthaman was the compiler of the book of Allah swt then why the early two caliphs were not able to complete this task in their rule and life? 

How they can be exempted from keeping the ummah devoid of the book of Allah swt?

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59 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

An other question that arises is that if Uthaman was the compiler of the book of Allah swt then why the early two caliphs were not able to complete this task in their rule and life? 

How they can be exempted from keeping the ummah devoid of the book of Allah swt?

despite Caliph Umar insisting the Book of Allah was sufficient for him...

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@shiaman14

Very true about caliph Umar, but he had to break this assumption by accepting that If Ali AS were not there to solve his problems he would have been ruined. 

This is the evidence to reject the claims that book alone was sufficient for the caliph Umar or ummah without the presence of the progeny of the prophet saww for its understanding

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On 11/15/2017 at 10:19 AM, skyweb1987 said:

How they can be exempted from keeping the ummah devoid of the book of Allah swt?

And also Abu Bakr and Umar had prohibited recording or transmitting hadiths of the Prophet (pbuh@hf) Then there's Abu Bakr Inaugural speech he states: If I do well, then help me; and if I act wrongly, then correct me“, How are you supposed to correct him in absent of Quran and Hadith??

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4 minutes ago, power said:

And also Abu Bakr and Umar had prohibited recording or transmitting hadiths of the Prophet (pbuh@hf) Then there's Abu Bakr Inaugural speech he states: If I do well, then help me; and if I act wrongly, then correct me“, How are you supposed to correct him in absent of Quran and Hadith??

This was possibly a strategy to hide the truth about the progeny of the prophet saw so that the unjustified actions of caliphs against the purified Ahl albaayt could be hide.  The status and virtues of the pure progeny as informed be the prophet saaw could be kept hidden by not permitting to write the hadiths.

The verse of Quran also  reminds me this scenario:

And Musa's people made of their ornaments a calf after him, a (mere) body, which gave a mooing sound. What! could they not see that it did not speak to them nor guide them in the way? They took it (for worship) and they were unjust. (7:148)

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On 11/15/2017 at 12:24 PM, power said:

And also Abu Bakr and Umar had prohibited recording or transmitting hadiths of the Prophet (pbuh@hf) Then there's Abu Bakr Inaugural speech he states: If I do well, then help me; and if I act wrongly, then correct me“, How are you supposed to correct him in absent of Quran and Hadith??

salam bro

the highlighted part caught my attention.

against a backdrop of verses:

[Shakir 2:166] When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder.

[Shakir 2:166] When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder.

is there a possibility that they will renounce their followers on the judgement day?
what is the probability their followers will then suffer intense regret?

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