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Guest TheOleSwitcheroo

Don't focus on Hijab for spouse selection?

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Guest TheOleSwitcheroo

So I hear this argument a lot as a guy searching for a practicing Shia spouse:

"Oh don't be so strict on the hijab, she can always wear it after." or here's a better one:

"What? You don't think you have enough faith to bring her closer to Islam." (paraphrasing) and of course my favorite:

"Oh well just because this girl does Hijab now doesn't mean she'll do it forever. She might wear the hijab but wear tight jeans and do lots of make up." (I call this the hijabi fashionista argument which is valid to a point).

So my question is: am I crazy to have something as simple, basic and WAJIB (key here) as hijab as one of my requirements for marriage? I mean if I'm looking for a practicing Muslim (isn't that by definition someone who does Hijab)? I feel if you have enough sense to wear Hijab you must have some sense about the basics of Islam. You may not be necessarily be religious but at least there is a visible potential there (and yes I know the whole "don't judge a book by a cover" but I think it applies here).

I mean at the end of the day if Hijab doesn't matter, let me just go and find the most attractive looking girl and "charm her" into wearing hijab (sarcasm).

I'm going insane.

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22 hours ago, Guest TheOleSwitcheroo said:

So my question is: am I crazy to have something as simple, basic and WAJIB (key here) as hijab as one of my requirements for marriage?

If you want your wife to wear hijab, then find someone who already wears hijab. If you force your wife to wear hijab after you get married, that is an oppression on her which she was definitely not expecting. 

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This is a legitimate grievance, and it's something that this faqir has also struggled with when looking for a spouse.

To give the other side: Just keep in mind that women are completely different people when they are (1) single, before Mr. Right, and (2) married with children. There are even changes that occur immediately after delivery. Of course, like @notme said, you shouldn't marry someone whom you expect to change. But it is normal that women become more family-oriented and conservative after having kids. There are sisters that don the hijab after marriage and become hafithas of the Quran. Young singles in general are more experimental and often still haven't found their sense of purpose.

So don't write off the "hijabistas" just yet. Sure, you could try your best to find someone more to your liking. But in the end, there are some devils that don the hijab, and there are some fine young Muslim women that are not there yet (sometimes due to their family). And we live in a time and place (the West) where a good man or a good woman is like finding the philosopher's stone.

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You should focus on character qualities you want instead. 

He should focus on what is important to him. Hijab is just one thing among many. If it's a deal breaker for him, he might rule out some otherwise suitable matches, but everyone had criteria. This one is as good as any. 

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Guest TKR
12 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Very good point. She might not wear hijab because she doesn't have her family's support for that, not that she hates hijab. 

I knew someone in her situation a long time ago.She had an oppressing atheist father who wouldnt let her wear the hijab.in fact praying was a game of hide and seek.she would do woudou very quickly and then lock herself up in her bedroom to pray.She took her time praying when her father wasnt at home but didnt feel confortable taking as long when he was at home.In one of his worst moments he even ripped her Quran.

While she was in this situation, she sure couldnt wear the hijab but she wasnt wearing skintight mini skirts either.There is always a middle ground.In fact the only difference of clothes between her and a casual hijab woman was the actual headscarf.

In the end she   توكلت على الله  and worked discretly on getting out of her situation and by the end she took her courage and wore the hijab at home (albeit the struggle took several years and many failed attempts) because she realised طاعة المخلوق في معصية الخالق  is not a viable option to someone who wants to be closer to Allah.

To sum up :Her father was a clear definable obstacle against her obeying Allah but in most cases its more subtle than that.I am sure we could all thing of a situation where not obeying Allah appeared as the easier choice but when you facture in the afterlife thats not even an option anymore.

My point for the original poster is that I totally agree with your point but life isnt as black and white as we would like it to be.But then again even god's law are still appliable for discerning good and bad in a sea of gray.Inshallah Allah will guide to a momina compatible for you.I would like to think in most case she will be wearing a hijab but even if she isnt her desire to wear one will be clear and visible (you could also ask her in soft why for her reasons for not and her stance on it that should clear any misunderstanding )

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No doubt Hijab is obligatory to women. But forcing upon her is un-Islamic and tantamount to oppression. Muslim men are supposed to protect women. Wearing the hijab should come from her inner. All in all we are only responsible for our actions and deeds. We won't be held accountable for the sins of others. If you don't want a women without hijab then look for one with Hijab. This shouldn't be a hard thing to do. Wasalam

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9 hours ago, hasanhh said:

The feminist "oppression" rhetoric, uhty?  You have been in the West too long.

What is "oppressive" about doing what you are supposed do?

A girl who does not wear hijab because she does not want to will rebel against her husband if after the wedding he forces her to wear it. He should tell her before the wedding that he expects her to wear hijab if she gets married to him. That way she can decide for herself if she wants to marry him and wear hijab. If she does, then everything is good. If she learns after the wedding that he wants her to wear hijab and forces her to wear it, she won't be happy. An unhappy wife is not going to make a happy home. The friction between the two of them will escalate into disagreements, fights and possibly bodily harm. No need for all of that. Just tell the girl that your wife has to wear hijab and she can make the decision to marry you or not. 

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Guest TheOleSwitcheroo
19 hours ago, IbnMariam said:

No, you're not. Six years ago, I used to think it was just me and a minority of my friends, but it has turned out there are many brothers who are looking for wives with a standard of covering more conservative and old-school. Just ignore the silly comments.

 

17 hours ago, notme said:

No, it's a perfectly reasonable expectation. 

Never marry someone expecting them to change. 

Thank you. To be honest, I only posted as a rant hoping there are others who feel like me. This whole "finding a spouse"-thing is exhausting. 

 

8 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

No doubt Hijab is obligatory to women. But forcing upon her is un-Islamic and tantamount to oppression. Muslim men are supposed to protect women. Wearing the hijab should come from her inner. All in all we are only responsible for our actions and deeds. We won't be held accountable for the sins of others. If you don't want a women without hijab then look for one with Hijab. This shouldn't be a hard thing to do. Wasalam

Don't know where in the post it said anything about forcing anyone to wear Hijab but yes of course I agree and that's the whole point. If you find someone who wears Hijab in the first place, you don't need to force anything (yes even if she takes it off after). 

> This shouldn't be a hard thing to do.

Lol you're funny. In North America at least my experience (obviously anecdotal) has been: For every 1 girl that does Hijab, there are 99 who probably don't even know what Hijab means. Don't even ask them what Taqleed means.

 

8 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Ok so I got thumbed down because I stated something that many woman struggle with wearing. Why thumb me down for it? It’s harder when you live in the west, and instead of focusing on petty details, one should focus on the person’s akhlaq and character. 

Wearing hijab doesn’t mean that someone is good or pious or even practicing. 

Focusing on hijab is not petty. Respectfully, I think you're making it petty because it fits your view of Hijab. Hijab is wajib (this means mandatory) just like salah, fasting, etc. The other thing is this is a Shia forum so we should talk about the Shia Islamic view of Hijab here (not some hand wavy pseudo-"progressive" opinion that only fits a Western narrative).

And I believe you have a bit of straw man argument: of course Hijab isn't the only criteria being used to select a spouse. Anyone doing that is out of his mind. That's like me buying a car based entirely on the looks (not to say a woman is a car or some object but you get my point).  You use Hijab as an initial funnel and then piety, personality, character, family, education, etc as the later one. Am I significantly decreasing my pool of selection? Yes, that's point.

Anyways, I'm still ranting...I just needed to get this out of my system...

W.S.

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8 hours ago, starlight said:

Something that Allah made wajib ....... is a petty detail?

It is petty in comparison to akhlaq and character when looking for a spouse. All people seem to do nowadays is focus on a woman’s hijab when they should be working on being practicing and good manners and alkhlaq. Some of the most arrogant woman I’ve met happened to be convert hijabis who, because they’ve been put on the pedestal for appearing pious, have treated others extremely badly. Some hijabis look down on non hijabis as less than. Others develop feelings of superiority. And don’t think these attitudes don’t exist within the Ummah. 

Hijab is not a reflection of one’s akhlaq or character or even if practicing status. A girl in my family wears hijab but she’s not practicing anymore and she’s almost atheist. I’m not saying every hijabi acts like the above. I’m saying that someone wearing hijab does not

1. Prove compatiblity 

2. Say anything about one’s akhlaq or character 

EDIT: you all seem to lump non hijabis with non practicing. I’m not a hijabi because I struggle with it, however, I dress as modestly as I can, pray, and fast, and read Quran. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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Ok so I got thumbed down because I stated something that many woman struggle with wearing. Why thumb me down for it? It’s harder when you live in the west, and instead of focusing on petty details, one should focus on the person’s akhlaq and character. 

Wearing hijab doesn’t mean that someone is good or pious or even practicing. 

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9 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

The thing is that hijab is a very personal decision and not easy to wear. 

You should focus on character qualities you want instead. 

I am confused why this was down voted. Is it not important anymore to find a partner/wife with good character qualities anymore?

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prophet advice was "ان جائكم من ترضون دينه و خلقه"

When a man who you are (subjectively) pleased with his religious-ness and manners, marry them off. It is the islamic ruling of compatibility. To find a religious compatible person to your religiousness. Often times, boys indulge in all sorts of haram then go around looking for extremely restrictive marriage.  I am not saying that your case, but im saying that's that is a very incompatible and can lead to many problems.

Similarly if the girl is non religious and was brought to a very religious husband family. Nither she nor your family will feel good being around each other.

So find someone who is as religious as you are and your family. If your family women wear hijab they may know of others. If your family women do not wear hijab and you are not that practicing person, bringing a religious person to this environment is not fair. Maybe if she is wearing hijab and accepted you, she will remove it because she accepted you as an (open minded) person with family which does not mind the removal of hijab.

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On 11/14/2017 at 1:28 AM, IbnMariam said:

No, you're not. Six years ago, I used to think it was just me and a minority of my friends, but it has turned out there are many brothers who are looking for wives with a standard of covering more conservative and old-school. Just ignore the silly comments.

What I don’t understand is that many of these men do all sort of crap (not your friends in particular, but many with that mindset) before they are married like chasing after white woman and every Kardashian-look alike but when the time has come to look for a spouse, they suddenly want the traditional, virginal, submissive housewife. 

What makes them think they are entitled to such a woman?

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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On 11/14/2017 at 7:22 AM, Islandsandmirrors said:

The thing is that hijab is a very personal decision and not easy to wear. 

You should focus on character qualities you want instead. 

My input is that due to the changing historical circumstances the west and even in some eastern muslim countries have made hijab like this. It does not change its wajib-ness and importance. But I can still understand the ridiculous orientalist critique surrounding hijab that has embedded itself in the minds of non-muslims when they judge muslimahs so harshly. For example, when non-muslims say stupid things like this "Oh wow! she is a doctor and she got that headscarf on! She must be breaking all sorts of traditions", I can understand and empathize with the daily struggle proper hijabis go through at the hands of non-muslims and even muslims nowadays. 

I think that if anything, in order to make hijab more accessible and free of "issues" as it were we as muslims need to crack down on the pervasive orientalist thought that is rampant amongst muslims and non-muslims concerning hijab. 

In my opinion, once you mentally, "decolonize" your mind, it becomes so much easier to obey the proper hijab for muslim women. Please do not take this post as a personal attack against you, but this post was general. And I do not know of your personal reasons for not wearing hijab right now, but I hope you appreciate my advice whether you decide to implement it, or just ignore it. That is if you have already not implemented it. 

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56 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

What I don’t understand is that many of these men do all sort of crap (not your friends in particular, but many with that mindset) before they are married like chasing after white woman and every Kardashian-look alike but when the time has come to look for a spouse, they suddenly want the traditional, virginal, submissive housewife. 

What makes them think they are entitled to such a woman?

Dont worry, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is keeping a count.

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I would personally not marry someone who does not wear hijab.

But I guess its case specific; for example:

Lets say someone just converted and wants to wear hijab but because of her non muslim family situation and social circle is not strong enough to do it on her own. Then she would start wearing it once she marries you because she has your support and your families support, that would be different from someone who was born muslim but does not wear hijab because she does not see the value in it and because she prefers to prioritize the opinion of people around her before the opinion of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى.

I do not think you are insane for wanting to marry someone who wears hijab, its the mother of your future children that you are selecting after all.

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3 hours ago, Guest TheOleSwitcheroo said:

So I hear this argument a lot as a guy searching for a practicing Shia spouse:

"Oh don't be so strict on the hijab, she can always wear it after." or here's a better one:

"What? You don't think you have enough faith to bring her closer to Islam." (paraphrasing) and of course my favorite:

"Oh well just because this girl does Hijab now doesn't mean she'll do it forever. She might wear the hijab but wear tight jeans and do lots of make up." (I call this the hijabi fashionista argument which is valid to a point).

So my question is: am I crazy to have something as simple, basic and WAJIB (key here) as hijab as one of my requirements for marriage? I mean if I'm looking for a practicing Muslim (isn't that by definition someone who does Hijab)? I feel if you have enough sense to wear Hijab you must have some sense about the basics of Islam. You may not be necessarily be religious but at least there is a visible potential there (and yes I know the whole "don't judge a book by a cover" but I think it applies here).

I mean at the end of the day if Hijab doesn't matter, let me just go and find the most attractive looking girl and "charm her" into wearing hijab (sarcasm).

I'm going insane.

No, you're not. Six years ago, I used to think it was just me and a minority of my friends, but it has turned out there are many brothers who are looking for wives with a standard of covering more conservative and old-school. Just ignore the silly comments.

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Guest Elina

Majority of girls now a days wear hijab only because they think they look good in hijab .With the increase in hijab styles more girls are taking to hijab just for fashion sake..Then i have seen second group of girls who wear it because their bf forced them or because of their parents pressure ..Then another group of girls who wear it just like some man grow their beard to show they are religious..Then only 5%girls who wear it to obey Allah..Now don't get angry on me ..i myself am a girl and i know very well..I have seen girls with hijab and having worst character ..There r girls who dont wear hijab but have good character and pray fast etc..You should never make hijab as a criteria ..You should only look for character and nature

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@E.L King you don’t know anything about me, okay? Who are you to imply that I’m cursed for not wearing hijab? Or that I’m a fasiq? Shame on you. Have you ever considered that I want to wear it someday? And that I’m making steps to wear hijab? If I really was cursed by Allah, He wouldn’t have guided me to become practicing at the age of 20!

You don’t know anything, so please instead of opening your mouth next time to spew arrogance, think of how people perceive you, before you speak. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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Allah [the most exalted] has said quite clearly that part of the Wajib [compulsory] conditions he places upon muslim women is the wearing of the Hijab. This is by consensus what is agreed upon by muslims of all schools of thought. However we should try to covey this to each other in a way that is sensitive and respectful. There is a time and a place and a proper manner depending on the context of who we are talking to. 

If someone does not wear Hijab, it does not mean they are evil and we should start to judge anyone. However, we do know that they are not obeying a direct and important command of the Almighty. Unless they are our sisters, mothers, or wives, let us kindly give admonition, and then leave it be. Are we going to start to make them uncomfortable to attend the mosque out of fear of being judged? Or pushed away from seeking a path towards Allah [the exalted] ? Or feel ostracised by their own communities? 

What is a bigger tragedy is seeing muslim men, particularly the Shia men, not having beards. They have a clean shaven look, or a one millimetre beard and things not really considered a beard by Sharia, and get away with it. Social Hijab and interacting with the opposite gender is also of importance and something many people at some point might have found weakness in. This particularly effects men.

As for myself, i am not going to preach to anyone and have enough fault in myself to be occupied with. 

Edited by Uthman bin Madhun

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Lets say someone just converted and wants to wear hijab but because of her non muslim family situation and social circle is not strong enough to do it on her own. Then she would start wearing it once she marries you because she has your support and your families support, that would be different from someone who was born muslim but does not wear hijab because she does not see the value in it

Very good point. She might not wear hijab because she doesn't have her family's support for that, not that she hates hijab. 

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