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Langar

I don't believe in Free Will

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Salams,

The discussion of Free Will and Determinism (predestination) is ongoing.

Both philosophers and theologians give their theories and insights through debates and articles and there is a lot of disagreement and controversy regarding the subject.

Recently, this discussion has been reopened for me and I'm not quite convinced that we have "Free will".

When we discuss this topic, we usually refer to Free Will as the ability of having the freedom to choose how to act. But I don't believe that this is an accurate description of the term Free Will. Will and choice are two different concepts. 

Will is defined as: "the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action." Freedom insinuates the lack of limitation, but obviously in our capacity as human beings we are very limited and constrained in what we can do.

Furthermore, if we were to bring God and His will into the equation, when we want to analyse our will and God's will we see that God in His capacity is truly free to do whatever He wishes. Now when we look at our own "free will" it becomes so negligible that it doesn't even seem to have any real existence. (I'm aware that the last line opens up other avenues regarding own own existence but let's not go into that discussion atm and just focus on the idea of free will please)

I'll conclude on the Hadith Qudsi that was revealed to Prophet Dawood: 

عبدي أنت تريد وأنا أريد

و لا يكون إلا ما أريد

فإن سلمت لي فيما أريد كفيتك ما تريد

و إن لم تسلم لي فيما أريد أتعبتك فيما تريد

ولا يكون إلا ما أريد

If anyone can provide a good translation for this I'd be very grateful.

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:salam:

:bismillah:

The Issue of Predestination and Free Will

One of the issues which is directly related to the issue of the justice of the Creator is the question of predestination or free will.

According to the fatalists (those who believe in predestination), a human being has no choice whatsoever in his or her actions, behaviour or words and the movement of his organs are just like the predestined movements of the parts of a machine.

Thus, the question arises, how does this opinion relate to Divine Justice? And perhaps because of this, the previously-mentioned group of the Ash’arites, deny intellectual good and evil and have accepted predestination. Their belief in predestination is a denial of justice. Why? Because when one accepts predestination, justice makes no sense.

In order to further clarify this point, we are obliged to study several subjects with care:

Why Believe in Predestination?

All people, within their being, sense that they are free to make decisions. For examples, whether or not to give a loan to such and such a friend or whether or not to drink a glass of water placed before oneself. If another person commits an error in relation to this person, this second can forgive or not forgive the error. Everyone can tell between a hand which shakes because of illness or old age from a hand which one purposefully causes to shake.

In spite of the fact that the issue of free will is a general human sense, why do some people follow the school of the fatalists?

There are several important factors that can affect a human: environment, education, propaganda, social culture and without doubt, the thoughts of a person. Sometimes, even one’s economic position can provide a motive for why a human being acts a certain way.

The totality of these cause one to assume that a person does not have free will, but rather that the external and internal factors join hands and force us to make a decision and that if these factors did not exist, we would not be forced with these problems.

These are things which can be called ‘the environmental determinants,’ ‘economic determinants,’ ‘educational determinants’ and predestination are among the factors considered to be important by the school of fatalists.

The Main Error of the Fatalists

But those who think this way have forgotten an important point and that is that the discussion is not about motives and defective causes, but rather the discussion is about complete causes.

In other words, no one can deny the role played by the environment, culture and economics in the thoughts and acts of a human being. The discussion is that with all of these motives, the final decision still remains with us.

Because we clearly sense that even in an erroneous system, one which rebels against God’s Commands like the monarchical system of the past - which had laid the groundwork for deviation - we were not obliged to deviate and go to the centers of corruption.

Thus, one must distinguish between and separate out defective causes from complete causes. A great many people who live in comfort or have been nurtured in a deviated culture or they inherited unsuitability, at any rate, have separated their way from that of others, and have either arisen or revolted against their environment. If every human being was supposed to be the child of his or her environmental culture and the propaganda of the times, no real or basic revolution would ever take place in the world. Everyone would have to adapt to his or her environment and never build a new one.

All of these show that the above-mentioned factors do not make one’s destiny; one’s principle or main fate is determined by one’s own will power.

For instance, if we were to decide to fast on a very hot summer day, despite our body needing water, we would be doing so in order to obey God’s commands while denying our own needs. It is possible, on the other hand, that others follow their body’s request for water and not fast. Thus, all motives which cause one’s destiny exist within the human being’s free will.

The Social and Political Factors for Belief in Fatalism

The truth is that the issue of predestination and free will has been misused throughout history. A series of factors have increased the belief in fatalism and the denial of free will of the human being. Among them:

1. Political Factors

Many of the despotic and selfish politicians in order to extinguish the fire of revolution among the deprived and in order to assure the continuation of their illegal rule (for every rule of regime which oppresses the people and denies people their rights is illegal from the point of view of Islam) convinced the people through all the means available to them that they have no free will, that predestination and predetermination of history holds our destiny in its hands. If one group rules and another is ruled, this is a rule of fate and the destiny of history!

It is clear how this kind of thinking can silence people and aid the policies of colonialism whereas according to our intellect and our Divine Law, destiny and fate lies in our own hands and fate and destiny in the sense of predestination and predetermination does not exist. Divine fate and destiny is determined through our action, desire, willpower, faith, effort and endeavour.

2. Psychological Factors

Lazy, indifferent and lethargic individuals exist who most often meet up with defeat in life. They never desire to admit the bitter truth that their laziness or errors have caused their defeat. Thus, in order to avoid confronting themselves with their deficiencies and developing themselves into better people, they turn to fatalism and they think that their sin is a result of coercive fate so that they find a false sense of security. They say: “What can be done? We were blackened from the beginning. It will not be whitened even with the water of Zamzam or Kawthar. We are extremely talented and make great efforts, but unfortunately, we have no luck.”

3. Social factors

Some people want to be free to be able to follow their carnal desires and commit every sin which is to their liking, at the same time, they want to somehow convince themselves that they are not sinners and they want to deceive society that they are sinless!

It is here that they turn to fatalism as their justification that we have no free will -- neither to choose nor avoid these sins. But they know well that all of these are lies and even those who make such claims and raise such issues know that they are baseless but their pleasures and passing fantasies do not allow them to admit this truth. Thus, in order to build a healthy society, we must struggle against this fatalistic way of thinking. We must realize these are tools used in the hands of colonialism and exploitation and an instrument to deceitfully justify defeat and the factor which causes corruption to increase in a society.

Reasons for Belief in Free Will

1. The Collective Conscience

Philosophers and divine scholars give different reasons for free will of the human being. The clearest reason given by the supporters of free will: The ‘universal’ or ‘collective’ conscience of human beings.

That is, no matter what we deny, we cannot deny the reality that in all human societies, including both the worshippers of God and the materialists, East and West, ancient and modern, wealthy and poor, developed or underdeveloped, of whatever culture, all without exception, agree that a law should rule human beings and that human beings are responsible before the law and people who disobey the law must be punished.

In other words, the rule of law, the responsibility of individuals before it and the punishment of those who disobey the law are things which all intelligent people agree with and it was only primitive tribes who did not officially recognise these three things.

The fact that we explain this as the general conscience of human beings of the world is the clearest proof of the existence of free will in human beings and the fact that they have free choice.

How can it be accepted that a human being be obliged in their actions and that they have no freedom of choice but are still responsible before the law? And, that when a law is broken, the person must be tried and asked why they did – or did not – commit a certain action. If proven guilt, that person is sent to prison or even, depending upon the crime, executed. This is exactly as if we were to punish stones which slide down a mountain causing a landslide on a mountain road which results in the death of one or more human beings.

It is true that a human being differs from a stone, but if we deny free will and choice in a human being, the difference between a human being and a stone will not be relevant in this instance - as both will be the victims of fate.

A stone, following the law of gravity, falls upon the roadside and a human being who murders another, is the victim of another factor of fate. Thus, the logic of those who believe in predetermination allows for no distinction to be made between a stone and a human being from the point of view of result as neither the stone nor the human acted according to their own free will. Why should the human be tried and not the stone?

We are at a crossroads. We either have to deny the existence of the common conscience of all of the people of the world and consider the courts, punishment of those who disobey the law to be ridiculous and useless and even oppressive or we have to deny the beliefs of the fatalists. Obviously the latter is preferable.

It is interesting to note that those who believe in the school of fatalism, and give reasons for their belief, when they are faced with a real life situation, they act according to free will!

For instance, if a person aggresses against them, or annoys or bothers them, they take this person to court and do not rest at ease until that person is punished.

Well, if it is really true that a person has no choice or free will, what is all of this commotion and court and trial about?
At any rate, this common conscience of the intelligent beings of the world is a living idea for the reality that human beings have accepted the existence of free will in the depths of their being and have always been loyal to that. They cannot live without the belief in free will for even one day. This belief has caused the wheels of social and individual programs to progress.

A great Iranian philosopher, Khawjeh Nasir al-din Tusi, in discussing predestination and free will says in one short sentence in his book, “Kitab Tajrubaah bih al- ‘Aqa’id:” ‘Our necessary under-standing and conscience tells us that we are responsible for all of our deeds.”

2. Justice

That which we have said above was about the contradiction between the school of predestination and the common conscience of the intelligent of the world, both from the point of view of supporters of religion and people who do not at all accept religion.

But from the point of view of religion thought, there is another sure reason for recognising the falsity of the school of fatalism. (And if fatalism were to be believed, religion as we know it, would have to be altered).

How can we reconcile the Justice of God which we proved in previous lessons with the school of fatalism? How is it possible that God oblige someone to do an evil deed? Then punish him because he did it. This does not agree with any kind of logic!

Thus, by accepting the school of fatalism, spiritual rewards, punishments, heaven and hell are meaningless as well as ‘scroll of deeds’, ‘questioning’, ‘Divine reckoning’, ‘reprimanding the evil doers in the Qur’an’, ‘encouragement and praise for those who do good’, all of these lose their meaning. Because according to the school of fatalism, neither the good doers nor the evil doers have a choice.

In addition, in religion, one of the first issues we encounter is ‘duty’ or ‘responsibility’, but does ‘duty’ or ‘responsibility’ make any sense if a person has no choice?

Can we tell a person whose hands involuntarily shake not to shake their hands? Or can we tell a person who is falling down a steep mountain to stand still? It is because of this that Imam ‘Ali, peace be upon him, says in a famous tradition (Usul al-Kafi, Vol. 1, p. 119) that the school of fatalism is a school of idol worship whose followers are members of Iblis’ party:

“These words of idol worshipping brothers, enemies of God, members of Iblis’ part.”

The Middle Way

1. The Opposite of Fatalism

Of course, opposing the belief in fatalism, which is one kind of an extreme, is the school of ‘conferring’, which is at the other extreme.

Those who accept this school believe that God created us and then put everything at our disposal and that, in general, He is not responsible for anything that we do and in this way, we are completely independent in choosing what we do.

Doubtlessly, this belief does not agree with monotheism because monotheism has taught us that God rules the entire world and nothing is beyond His control. Even our free will and free choice cannot be beyond His realm, otherwise duality or polytheism would, of necessity, result.

In other words, we cannot believe in many gods, one, the great Creator of the universe and the others, the human beings who are free to do whatever they wish, completely free and independent - even God cannot affect what they wish to do!

2. The School of the Middle Way

What is important is that we know human beings have freedom of choice and free will at the same time we know God to be the Ruler over all persons and deeds.

The fine point to recognise here is that we should not imagine that there is a contradiction between the two. The fact is that we can accept His Justice and Rule over the entire universe of existence as well as freedom and responsibility of His servants - and this is that very thing which is known as the middle way (the way which is between two extremes).

Let us clarify this with an example as the issue is a very complicated one. Let us assume that there is an electric train that is being driven by a train driver. A strong electric cable has been placed along the line of the train and the train is connected with a link to this electric cable. The electricity is passed to the locomotive in such a way that if for just one moment, the electricity to the locomotive stops, the whole train will stop. Without doubt, the train driver is free.

He can stop wherever he wants and he can move at his own speed. But in spite of all of this freedom, the person who is sending the electricity can, at any moment, make the train stop because all of the train’s power and strength is through that electric cable. The person who holds the key to the electrical cable is in charge.

When we note this example with care, we see that one can have freedom, choice and responsibility (the train driver), while one is completely at the disposal of the power of another (the electric cable operator) and these two concepts do not contradict each other.

God has given us physical power or strength and from moment to moment, it continues and if it is cut off for even a moment, and our connection with Him be cut off, we would be destroyed.

If we can do anything it is because we have strength which He has given us and it continues moment by moment and even our freedom and choice is also from Him. That is, He willed that we be free and by making use of this great Divine Kindness, one can transform one’s self.

Thus, at the same time that we have free choice and free will, we are in His grasp and we will never move beyond His realm. At the same time that we have strength and power, we are dependent upon Him and without Him, we will be destroyed. This is what “The Middle Way” means. Neither have we recognised any creature to be equal to God (which would result in polytheism) nor do we believe creatures are obliged to act according to a set destiny (which would result in oppression). We have learned this lesson from our pure Imams, peace be upon them (Usul al-Kafi, vol. 1, p. 121). Whenever they were asked, “Does anything exist between fatalism and conferring?”

They said, “Yes. More extensive than the distance between heaven and earth.”

The Holy Qur’an and Free Will

The Holy Qur’an states this issue directly and proves the free will of human beings and there are hundreds of verses which talk about free will.

All of the verses which relate to commanding virtue and preventing vice are all proof of the free will of human beings because if a person was destined to do so, commanding them to do so would make no sense.

All of the verses which speak of blame and reproach against the evil doers and praise for the good doers are proof of free will because if one was destined to do whatever one did, blame or praise would make no sense.

All of the verses which speak about the questioning on the Day of Judgement and the Judgement in that Court and then the rewards and punishments and heaven and hell are proof of free will because if one was to assume that everything was predestined then questioning, judging, rewards and punishments would all be oppressive.

Some explicit verses of the Qur’an which say that a human being is responsible for his or her deeds are:

“Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds.” (Surah Muddathir, 74: 38).

“(Yet) in each individual in pledge for his deeds.” (Surah At-Tur, 52: 21).

“We showed him the Way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful (rests on his will).” (Surah Al-Insaan, 76:3).

“But you will not except as God wills…” (Surah Al-Insaan, 76:30).

Guidance and Error are in God’s Hands

1. Means of Guidance

A traveller has an address in his hand. He meets you and asks you to help him find the address. You have two choices before you:

First, to go with him and complete your good deed by a accompanying him to his destination and then say goodbye and leave him.

Second, indicate with your hand and giving various signs guide him towards his destination.

It is evident that in both cases, you have guided him towards his destination but there is adifference between these two; the second one is just telling which way to go and the first, is taking one to one’s destination. The Holy Qur’an and Traditions of Islam mention both ways.

On the other hand, sometimes guidance only has a legal quality to it, i.e., formed by means of laws and rules. Whereas, sometimes it has an instinctive quality, i.e., by means of facilities provided by creation like the guidance of an embryo to becoming a complete human being and both of these ways are mentioned in the Holy Qur’an and the Traditions. By clarifying the means of guidance (and, naturally, the point opposite it, leading astray or error), we return to the main discussion.

We read in many of the verses of the Holy Qur’an that guidance and leading astray is God’s work. Doubtlessly, the ‘indication of the way’ comes from God. Why? Because He sent the Prophet and sent a heavenly Book to show people the way.

But ‘reaching the goal’ through coercion or force clearly does not agree with free will and choice. However, because all power and strength which is necessary to reach one’s goal is given to us by God and it is He Who gives us success upon this way, this sense of guidance is also from God. That is, preparation of the equipment and the preliminaries and providing them is at the disposal of humanity.

2. The Question of God’s Guidance

Now, an important question arises and that is that we read in many verses of the Holy Quran:

“God guides whom He wills and misleads whom He wills.” (Surah Ibrahim, 14: 4).

Some people, without considering other verses of the Holy Qur’an, and the interpretation which one verse has relative to others, immediately, upon seeing this verse, object and say, “If God guides whom He will and misleads whom He wills, what are we supposed to do in the middle?”

The important point is that the verses of the Holy Qur’an must always be studied in relation to each other in order to understand them in truth. Here we will recall several other verses about guidance and leading astray so that you can study them in relation to the above verse:

“God will establish in strength those who believe, with the Word that stands firm in this world and in the hereafter; but God will leave, to stray, those who do wrong: God does what He wills” (Surah Ibrahim, 14:27).

“Thus does God leave to stray such as transgress and live in doubt.” (Surah Al-Mu’min, 40:34).

“And those who strive in our (Cause), We will certainly guide them to Our paths: for verily God is with those who do right.” (Surah Al-Ankabut, 29: 69).

As we see, God’s will is not inexplicable. He neither gives the success of guidance to a person nor does He deny a person success. Those who undertake the jihad upon God’s Way, war with their difficulties and show strength and firmness of purpose, have been promised guidance and this is justice.

But those who create oppression and suppression and those who take steps towards extravagance, doubt, injustice and causing temptation in hearts, God takes away their possibility of guidance. Their hearts, as a result of these deeds, are darkened and they will not be able to succeed in reaching the station of wellbeing. This is how the Creator leaves the results of our deeds in our own hands and this is justice.

God’s Knowledge

The last point which we feel should be mentioned here in the discussion of predestination and free will is the excuse used by some fatalists as knowledge of the eternal of God.

They say, “Does God know that so and so at such and such an hour on such and such a day will kill someone or will drink an alcoholic beverage?”

If we say, “He does not know,” we have denied God’s knowledge. And if we say, “Yes, that person must do this, otherwise God’s knowledge will be imperfect,” then, in order to preserve God’s knowledge, a person is obliged to sin and obey God!

But the fact is, this excuse was fabricated in order to cover over the sins they wanted to commit but they have forgotten the fact that we say that God knew from eternity whether we would be inclined towards free will and choice and will obey or sin. That is, our will or choice was also part of God’s knowledge. Thus, if we are obliged to sin, God’s knowledge will become ignorant.

Allow us to put forth some questions on this point to clarify them. Assume that a teacher knows that a lazy student will fail at the end of the year and the teacher is one hundred percent sure of this fact because of years of experience as a teacher.

When the student fails, can the student take the teacher to task and say: “Your knowledge and what you foresaw caused me to fail.”?

Or, let us assume that there is a sinless and pure person and he knew of a murder which would take place on such and such a day and interferes to prevent it, does the knowledge of this pure person take away the responsibility of the criminal, obliging the criminal to commit the crime?

Or, assume that a new machine has been invented which can predict the occurrence of an event several hours before it happens and it can say that so and so at such and such an hour in such and such a place will commit such and such an act. Does this oblige that person to do this?

In summary, God’s knowledge never obliges anyone to do anything.

 

Al-Islam

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Bismillah e Rehman e Raheem

Bro, everyone has limitations. If anyone cross his limitations, he loses his identity. Even if you read in Quran, Allah AWJ speaks about limitations and says: "Allah does not loves those who are transgressors". So, what does limitations meant to Him. Allah AWJ is goodness and He is great and therefore He cannot be bad or lower. However, His goodness is unlimited and His greatness is incomprehensible. Anything which is evil does not belongs to God and Gods hates it. One of the evil is that one should assume such thing which is only reserved for God such as  one should say that he wills to be respected like God (nauzbillah) while He does not have power like Him and lacks merit. 

Even though God is creator, He AWJ has not stopped us from anything and has allowed us to choose whatever we can whether to be good or be bad. However, you have free will in choice but no free will in creating consequences because as I told you earlier God is all good and does not like evil so He AWJ will only allow rewards for good acts but punishment for evil.

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Salam brother. 

You have rightly mentioned the difference of view over free will and you are partilly right. 

For impeachment you are responsible for your free will and you have to give answer for your action. 

And you are not answerable for will of Allah. But your hereafter depends exclusively and only on your actions and free will. 

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4 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

In short, we are partly free and partly dependent. Our actions are not without consequences but we can change our actions at our will. 

Mr.you are completely free and your every will and action is free depending upon your will. 

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4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.you are completely free and your every will and action is free depending upon your will. 

Bro, I said that I am free to choose actions but result is from Allah fixed for that and if He wants he can alter the result depending upon my welfare and goodness. 

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Can you change consequences such as drop a ball from height and ask it not to fall or reverse action ? Imam Ali a.s said: "Words are your slaves unless they are uttered but after they are uttered you are their slave". Free until you have not chosen bro, once chosen and executed, it cannot be repealed. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

Bro, I said that I am free to choose actions but result is from Allah fixed for that and if He wants he can alter the result depending upon my welfare and goodness. 

Yes. In this world all  results depends on Allahs will. 

But in hereafter world only depends on your freewill decided actions 

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6 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I did not understand this please explain. 

Take example of hear after. That all depends on your actions done at free will. For all righteous actions you will be rewarded and for all bad actions you will be punished. So hereafter depends only on your free will. 

But in this world you never know what will be outcome of your actions. It all depends on Allahs will. 

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2 hours ago, Langar said:

I'll conclude on the Hadith Qudsi that was revealed to Prophet Dawood: 

عبدي أنت تريد وأنا أريد

و لا يكون إلا ما أريد

فإن سلمت لي فيما أريد كفيتك ما تريد

و إن لم تسلم لي فيما أريد أتعبتك فيما تريد

ولا يكون إلا ما أريد

If anyone can provide a good translation for this I'd be very grateful.

here is a rough translation:

my slave, you want (something) and i want (something)

but nothing ever is or happens except what i want

so if you submit to me in what i want, what you want will be enough for you

and if you dont submit to me in what i want, you will become weary of what you what(meaning you will never feel fulfilled)

and nothing ever happens apart from what i want.

 

even though this might be confusing to some, as it says that nothing happens except what Allah wants, there are two types of wants. one is to actively will something into being, like the ayahs in quran say "be, and it is" and the second is to allow something to take place. the latter is the one that allows us free will. the former is the one that puts us in different situations as Allah wills them to be. Allah allows us to do what we want in those situations. our actions lead us to different situations/circumstances. they may be due to the first kind of "will" or the second kind, but our actions are allowed by Allah swt under the second kind of the Will of Allah. hope that helps.

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Just now, islam25 said:

Take example of hear after. That all depends on your actions done at free will. For all righteous actions you will be rewarded and for all bad actions you will be punished. So hereafter depends only on your free will. 

But in this world you never know what will be outcome of your actions. It all depends on Allahs will. 

Bro, Allah AWJ has promised 10 good deeds in this world and 70 goodness for hereafter. As for sins, they are harmful for us in this world such as if we lie, we will be famous as liar in this world and in hereafter we may get punishment due to preferring our wish above God but if God wishes as it is said in few hadith that momin will be punished in this world and not hereafter. 

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Bro, Allah AWJ has promised 10 good deeds in this world and 70 goodness for hereafter. As for sins, they are harmful for us in this world such as if we lie, we will be famous as liar in this world and in hereafter we may get punishment due to preferring our wish above God but if God wishes as it is said in few hadith that momin will be punished in this world and not hereafter. 

That is the prise of good actions. 

It will never happen that for good action He will punish. 

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Did I say that he will punish for good actions where ??????

No. For each action here result depends on Allah.But her after only represents your actions Allah .

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2 hours ago, Langar said:

عبدي أنت تريد وأنا أريد

و لا يكون إلا ما أريد

فإن سلمت لي فيما أريد كفيتك ما تريد

و إن لم تسلم لي فيما أريد أتعبتك فيما تريد

ولا يكون إلا ما أريد

 

You can find it In kitaab al-Tawheed by Sheik Saduq (ra):

Imam Ali (as) said: "Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, revealed to David (as): O David, you will and I will. However, your will is not except what I will. Therefore, if you submit to My Will, I will bestow you with what you will. However, if you do not submit to My Will, I will trouble you in what you wish. In the end, it is always My Will that prevail."

 

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I would recommend anyone who is interested in the topic of predestination and free will to consider reading the following book written by Ayatollah Murtadha Mutahhari: "Man and His Destiny". (https://www.al-islam.org/man-and-his-destiny-ayatullah-murtadha-mutahhari)

"This title deals with the Islamic point of view on fate and destiny. Martyr Ayatullah Mutahhari critically examines historical doctrines on predestination and free will put forth by various schools of thought in Islam including the Mu'tazali and Ash`ari. Based on the verses of the Qur'an and Islamic teachings of the Ahlul Bayt (a), Martyr Mutahhari determines the true and correct position of human free will and predestination from the Islamic point of view."

 

You can also get a physicial copy from amazon if you prefer that.

Edited by Khomeinist
typo

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2 hours ago, islam25 said:

Salam brother. 

 

2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Bismillah e Rehman e Raheem

Bro, everyone has limitations. 

Bro is a khanom actually.

 

We've been programmed a certain way, we will never choose anything other than what we were going to choose, and our choices are all determined by past actions and external influences. You are never truly "free".

The issue I have is mostly a technical one. I understand the points that have been raised, but my point is we throw around the term "Free Will" without understanding the meaning behind Free and Will.

We need to rename this phenomenon.

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  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Assalam-O-Alaikum !! May Allah Shower his Blessings upon you All.

      I am not a Good English Speaker. So, Please understand my words.

      After doing research on Shia Books, I came to know about Black Clothing which is Makrooh. But why and how? Prophet Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him) wore Black if I am not wrong. Someone told me Imam Jafar Sadiq prohibited from wearing Black shoes and Black Clothes. Is it true?

      Jazaak Allah Khair.
    • Guest WestSide Story
      Looking for testimonials of being married to someone with different level of practicing Islam (Shia Islam specifically). Moderate woman to not so moderate man. Scenerio: Individually both have compatibility. Looking at them their are no apparent differences. They are happy. Neither drink.  But only one eats halal. One comes from a moderate practicing family and one from a family that has little distinction from western lifestyle and some of the family members drink but live elsewhere. Both individuals have older kids. Can it be a succesful second marriage? 
    • https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjKjJuLttTXAhXNI1AKHbmwCnkQFghbMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slideshare.net%2Fhuseinmhanna%2Fthe-structure-of-the-universe&usg=AOvVaw1u9CB07-W2u5JxwR-e2HWP http://qfatima.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/tawheed.pdf
    • Feminists typically use terms like "male-dominated culture" so I just wanted to ask if you are a feminist. Also patriarchy is not inherently bad. No matter how you look at it Islam promotes a form of a patriarchal society. So just so you know. However I am not defending the patriarchy of Desi culture. Which is what we are talking about. I am advocating the patriarchy of an Ideal Shia Islamic social society (Yes these have existed historically to various extents).    Also I have seen housewives who can cook a mean paratta and clean well and still they are degraded by not only other women but by men, who tend to gravitate towards free-loving women. They are not appreciated by men as well. I am talking of the West, so I will let others respond on how accurate your statements are about the east. Something tells me you are still projecting and exaggerating.    Again, when you use the word "men" you are referring to a specific type of men. So don't generalize like the OP did. Also modesty is also a concern as well. I have seen this and I can give anecdotes as well to prove this. But let us not play the anecdote game. You would be surprised what western Muslim women, especially in college, get up to. So let us not pretend Muslim women are angels. Remember, for every Muslims man who fornicates there is often times another Muslim woman willing to do it with them. So don't think it is a "guy" issue, it is also a gal issue as well. Also there may be more reasons than the ones you and I listed too as to why an eastern man wants to marry a western woman, but it has everything to do with the guy trying to "make-up" for his guilty conscious and it may manifest in ways such as he thinking he can make it up by having his wife cook and clean (in a weird and twisted way, after all humans are psychologically complex creatures). But your cynical explanation makes it sound is as if Muslimah are dainty little flowers who earn money through a job and when they get married their hubby goes all Hollywood mustache twirling villain on them, or goes Ape on them out of nowhere. This is an incredibly naive and biased analysis and only ends up creating more questions rather than answering them.     Also you just answered your question. Replace men with "cultural Desi men". But you saying "men" is generalizing and I can also name "hundreds of examples" that run counter to yours. As can anyone here. No one here is defending Desi (primarily hindu influenced culture). But you seem to think we are.   On a tangential note Muslims nowadays are willing to blame Islam rather than Hindus for the defiencies that are present in Desi culture. Despite the fact that most of the deleterious behaviors of Desi culture had its origins in ancient Hindu culture that ancient Muslims picked up on. "Purdah" is a famous example of something that quite likely originated amongst  and was widely propagated  by Hindu culture and that Muslims adopted as well but tend to confuse with Islam in incorrect ways (the state of the prophets wives was not the same of a random Muslim woman back then and now,  most scholars agree on this).    Also you went on a tangent about working and being modest. Read my first post on the topic to know that Muslim women ALWAYS worked for 1400+ years in some job or another but had time for their family and household responsibilities. Even Umar Ibn al Khattab of all people hired a woman as "head of market operations ".  And above all else these Muslim women only thought of their job as a job and never let their job or income define them. I don't care if you earn money or not. You are not special or free or liberated or any other adjective you can name. And historically Muslim women used to be doctors way back even in the 1000s but never used to let their career define them. Except that they heal people. But modern day feminism does define a womans worth by her income and somehow she is "not tame" because she earns money. That is laughable. Sister "notme" did a good job of explaining the problem with people like you and your motivations to work. 
    • Sermon 1: Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described…. In this sermon he recalls the creation of Earth and Sky and the creation of Adam and in it he mentions the Hajj Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks. https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-1-praise-due-Allah-whose-worth-cannot-be-described#creation-universe
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