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Mohamed1993

Choice between communism and capitalism

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Just now, E.L King said:

Capitalism. I want to have private property lol. 

Lol, both extremes suck tbh. Much of the anti-imperialist/anti-war left in the west is pro-communist, I don't really think they'll fancy living under communism though, it just becomes state tyranny over corporate tyranny.

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38 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Lol, both extremes suck tbh. Much of the anti-imperialist/anti-war left in the west is pro-communist, I don't really think they'll fancy living under communism though, it just becomes state tyranny over corporate tyranny.

Indeed, but one extreme sucks more imo. 19th Century US was apparently the closest to a pure capitalist society we have ever got, and I would rather live there than basically any communist society that ever existed.

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3 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Looking through rose tinted glasses, I wouldn't want to live in 19th century US.

Neither would I. Did you read my comment properly?

9 minutes ago, E.L King said:

I would rather live there than basically any communist society that ever existed.

So I did not say it was a good society to live in, all I am saying is I would rather live there than the communist societies that have existed.

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23 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Neither would I. Did you read my comment properly?

I did and to be honest, as long as you stayed out of trouble, the Soviet Union didn't seem that bad of a choice. I personally would rather live in the Soviet Union than 18-19th century America.

 

P.S. You're looking through rose tinted glasses if you think that 19th century America was the closest thing to pure capitalism. Back them, you couldn't own property or vote unless you were white, male and affluent, bonus points if you were Anglo Saxon and Protestant Christian. So much for unadulterated private enterprise back then.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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combaining Communism with Islam lead to creating terrorist  group of People's Mujahedin of Iran

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Mujahedin_of_Iran

i think combining with capitalism wil be not good 

we must have our economic way such as below but its not continued 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iqtisaduna

Iqtisaduna

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 

Our Economy (Arabic: اقتصادنا"Iqtisaduna") is a major work on Islamic economics by prominent Shia cleric Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr. Written between 1960 and 1961, and published in 1982, it is al-Sadr's main work on economics, and still forms much of the basis for modern Islamic banking.

In Our Economy, al-Sadr strives to show that Islam has answers to problems of the modern world by presenting an Islamic alternative to both capitalism and socialism. He rejects socialism on the basis that Islam distinguishes between the individual and the ruler in an Islamic state in a manner that requires a distinction between private and public property. However, he also rejects capitalism's notion that private property is justified in its own right, arguing instead that both private and public property originate from God, and that the rights and obligations of both private individuals and rulers are therefore dictated by Islam. He also rejects the conclusion that this makes Islamic economics a mixture between capitalism and socialism, arguing that capitalism and socialism each come about as the natural conclusion of certain ideologies, while Islamic economics comes about as the natural conclusion of Islamic ideology and therefore is justified entirely independently of other systems of economics.

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It is just my opinion but... I sadly believe that time has proven his theories wrong. Don't get me wrong, Iqtisaduna is still a great book to read (mostly the analysis on other models he makes, not the solutions he dilucidates), but in a practical level in Iraq, none of his theories have reached a good end. None. Which curiously reminds me of the basis in which he built his critique of marxism (focusing on the multiple social variables that won't allow the integration of the communist economic model). One could say it's somewhat ironic.

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5 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I did and to be honest, as long as you stayed out of trouble, the Soviet Union didn't seem that bad of a choice. I personally would rather live in the Soviet Union than 18-19th century America.

 

P.S. You're looking through rose tinted glasses if you think that 19th century America was the closest thing to pure capitalism. Back them, you couldn't own property or vote unless you were white, male and affluent, bonus points if you were Anglo Saxon and Protestant Christian. So much for unadulterated private enterprise back then.

As long as you stayed out of trouble? I guess the millions of people killed under Stalin's reign were simply trouble makers.

A white Christian in the US in the 19th Century vs a Moscow-born Soviet Russian in the 20th Century - who would have a better life?

I'm guessing the American would have a better life, unless he is poor. 

The only thing I would give the Soviets would be access to healthcare, education and atleast the basics.

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

As long as you stayed out of trouble? I guess the millions of people killed under Stalin's reign were simply trouble makers.

A white Christian in the US in the 19th Century vs a Moscow-born Soviet Russian in the 20th Century - who would have a better life?

I'm guessing the American would have a better life, unless he is poor. 

The only thing I would give the Soviets would be access to healthcare, education and atleast the basics.

Were jobs and affordable housing a guarantee in the USSR? 

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9 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Neither, they both stink.

Yes, this me too.

How about this: meet the basic needs of everyone and then let the market do what it will, with checks to avoid abuses as much as is feasible. It's not that hard to implement, and it fits the Islamic economic system. 

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8 minutes ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

Why are you asking ?

Just curiosity, I was reading a poll the other day that millennials believe Bush killed more people than Stalin, I think people who will in a primarily capitalist society don't understand what its like to live under communism, at the same time maybe the reverse is true as well. 

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On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 11:09 PM, Mohamed1993 said:

Lol, both extremes suck tbh. Much of the anti-imperialist/anti-war left in the west is pro-communist, I don't really think they'll fancy living under communism though, it just becomes state tyranny over corporate tyranny.

How is capitalism bad? l know there is craissez faire free-for-all irresponsible stuff, but what else?

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3 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

How is capitalism bad? l know there is craissez faire free-for-all irresponsible stuff, but what else?

Rich can exploit the poor, corporations can buy their way out of everything and get massive tax breaks while your average salary bloke ends up paying larger than his share, inequality between rich and poor grows. US foreign policy apart from being influenced by lobbyists that represent foreign governments is also heavily influenced by oil&gas companies, financial industry and the weapons industry that need wars so that their weapons get sold. All these elements are able to get politicians to go so far because of unbridled capitalism that values access to capital over people. 

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On 11/7/2017 at 11:49 PM, E.L King said:

Indeed, but one extreme sucks more imo. 19th Century US was apparently the closest to a pure capitalist society we have ever got, and I would rather live there than basically any communist society that ever existed.

Soviet Union was not really communist.  In fact it was more state capitalist than communist.  The US also has never been anywhere close to pure capitalism. 

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15 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Rich can exploit the poor, Who works for "rich people"? Corporations, debt and inflation exploit about everybody.

...corporations can buy their way out of everything and get massive tax breaks while your average salary bloke ends up paying larger than his share...,  ALL Taxes are passed along down the line to the individual.

...inequality between rich and poor grows.Some people are good at making money. Most people do not.

... US foreign policy apart from being influenced by lobbyists that represent foreign governments is also heavily influenced by oil&gas companies, financial industry and the weapons industry that need wars so that their weapons get sold. lt is all guns, oil a biblical fantasies.

...All these elements are able to get politicians to go so far because of unbridled capitalism that values access to capital over people. Do NOT agree. Politicians will take money and favors from anybody.

Reply in bold face.

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5 hours ago, King said:

Soviet Union was not really communist.  In fact it was more state capitalist than communist.  The US also has never been anywhere close to pure capitalism. 

So you wouldn't call 19th Century America the most capitalist society since the industrial era?

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