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God is most high and everything he does (including his creation) are most high. Not everything that exists is caused by God since it is not most high.

Do Muslims believe that all is caused by God? How do you explain then that something perfect causes something imperfect?

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, sefket83 said:

God is most high and everything he does (including his creation) are most high. Not everything that exists is caused by God since it is not most high.

Do Muslims believe that all is caused by God? How do you explain then that something perfect causes something imperfect?

 

 

 

 

Only God is absolutely perfect.  All else is relatively perfect and therefore relatively imperfect.  So you are confusing two kinds of perfection, relative and absolute perfection. 

Edited by eThErEaL

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Just now, sefket83 said:

God does not hold all things as most high which do exist so they can not be his creation.

so who created the other things? another God? 
 

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Just now, eThErEaL said:

Only God is absolutely perfect.  All else is relatively perfect and therefore relatively imperfect.  So you are confusing two kinds of perfection, relative and absolute perfection. 

 

1 minute ago, kirtc said:

so who created the other things? another God? 
 

Do not know. Maybe they just came from nothing?

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4 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Only God is absolutely perfect.  All else is relatively perfect and therefore relatively imperfect.  So you are confusing two kinds of perfection, relative and absolute perfection. 

If a person does a thing perfectly then that act is perfect. If a perfect God creates perfectly then that which is created is perfect.

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Isaiah 45:7

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these

Isaiah 66:2

"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

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13 minutes ago, kirtc said:

Isaiah 45:7

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these

Isaiah 66:2

"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

Isaiah 66:1 “Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
    Where will my resting place be?

God is saying that he made the heaven and the earth.

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4 minutes ago, sefket83 said:

Isaiah 66:1 “Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
    Where will my resting place be?

God is saying that he made the heaven and the earth.

ok??
I think you have a hard time comprehending english, or language...

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Isaiah 66:1 “Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
    Where will my resting place be?
 

"For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

God is saying in Isaiah 66:2 that the heaven and eaarth are made by him.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, sefket83 said:

Agree but why do Muslim say that God is the creator of everyting? 

Read this:

Quote

In Augustine's theodicy the fall is central, where imperfection is due to the sinner and human disobedience. Well, if imperfection is due to human disobedience and the sinner, then the question arises that as to why the innocent suffer? Because they have not committed any sin and they don’t have any disobedience. Augustine’s theodicy is not a sufficient answer to the question “why do the innocent suffer”? However, perhaps there is a divine hidden purpose beyond it.

Augustine’s philosophical idea that evil is non-being has had some resonance in the Islamic science of Kalam. Abu Abdillah Muhammad b. al-‘Arabi (560/1165) known as “the greatest master” in his Al-Futûhāt al-Makkivvah argues that evil is non-being. “Good” or “khayr” (in Arabic) is that which is positive, useful, profitable and beautiful. But “there is no good but God”.

The opposite, “sharr,” (in Arabic) is evil or lack of goodness. Hence, it is non-existence. Good only emerges from good. All good exists. Existence is goodness. Evil results when creatures fail to share in existence. God is unlimited goodness, for no creature is as good as He, and there is nothing in creation like Him. So what is the purpose of the notion of evil? Ibn al-‘Arabi has a perspective similar to St. Augustine that evil is non-being and it is a privation of good.

According to the great contemporary Muslim philosopher ‘ Allamah Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Tabataba’i, in his book Al-Mizan fi Tafsir al-Qur’an, evil is the privation of good. He writes:

In general, ill manners (evilness) and natural disasters (evils) - earthquakes, floods, etc. are voids; and from this aspect they do not have fundamental existence (in as much as they are evil) to be counted among that which is good. In other words, sickness is the void of health, blindness is the void of sight, oppression is the void of justice, and ugliness is void of beauty.

Generally speaking, evil is the void of good; we being fallible beings and having free will have the ability to make choices that are void of good, health or justice. Evil is simply the absence or deficiency of good, by itself, Evil doesn't exist. 

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13 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Read this:

Generally speaking, evil is the void of good; we being fallible beings and having free will have the ability to make choices that are void of good, health or justice. Evil is simply the absence or deficiency of good, by itself, Evil doesn't exist. 

So there is no evil only lack of goodness...how can unlimited goodness who is God do something less then unlimitedly good? Its like saying  unlimited force does limited impact.

Edited by sefket83

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7 minutes ago, sefket83 said:

So there is no evil only lack of goodness...how can unlimited goodness who is God do something less then unlimitedly good? Its like saying  unlimited force does limited impact.

Im just gonna try one more time

You are imperfect yourself, does that mean God didnt create you? are you not capable of evil?

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19 minutes ago, sefket83 said:

So there is no evil only lack of goodness...how can unlimited goodness who is God do something less then unlimitedly good? Its like saying  unlimited force does limited impact.

Remember how I said that we are limited? It is us who do less than good with deficits in reason, logic and understanding. We cause the absence of good through our selfish desires and privatization of good. We have the ability to choose evil. It is a choice. Evil comes from people, not God.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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3 hours ago, sefket83 said:

If a person does a thing perfectly then that act is perfect. If a perfect God creates perfectly then that which is created is perfect.

 

Why can’t God create another God?  

 

Because there is only One Absolute because to be Absolute means to be the only one there is.  Since the Absolute is perfect only the Absolute is Perfect.  Absolute perfection means that there is no one or nothing else’s that is perfect.  The only way anything other than the Absolute can be perfect is if it is. A relative perfection.   

 

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quotation Originally by m0hsen Show posts
The Qur'an says that humans are best created while this does not correspond to empirical observations. Now you go to the dentist to tell you that the teeth of some people are shellfish, some calcareous and calcareous teeth are rotten earlier. Aside from the fact that circumcision is beneficial or not, what is the reason that a circumcised human being is not born? What is the cause of a human being's nail? What is the cause of the hair (head and face) in the body? The appendix is a member of the body in the body, like many other organs. Although some people try to make the appendix a benefit, the truth is that the benefits to humans are unnecessary. This is a principle accepted by surgeons who, when in the area The abdominal cavity does the appendix. These are evolutionary in terms of evolution, and evolution tells us how some members lost their ability to evolve over time:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.askdin.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D27819&edit-text=


http://www.askdin.com/showthread.php?t=27819

Hi 
By referring to the book of Tawhid Muftaz, you can read the phrases of each individual human body and the body of their creation, for example, the nail and the muscle make it possible to remove infections of the body and microbes from the body, and you should consider the fact that man in the world of matter And it is for itself, and human beings are best created in order to survive in order to achieve perfection. 
In the case of waste materials, some people should realize that it is not a matter of divine creation, but the world is the world of things and things, and the way in which the physical and physical functioning of their parents is effective in the creation of the child, and the science of the day has proved that. 
But in the case of redundant members, it should be said that in this case the relevant specialists should be answered, but in some cases, when the doctors thought it was redundant, they realized after the removal that the member had benefits that they did not know. So they misunderstood. 
But in general, the Qur'an says: "Creation of the very best of the calendar, we created man in the best form." (Tien / 4) 
The best of the calendar is that the appearance of a man standing is, conversely, better than the other creatures that walk or fall to the abdomen, as well as the members of the human being for the life of the world and the perfection of the best members. 
Somehow, in explaining this verse, he says: "Human beings are inferior, contrary to other creatures that are at the bottom of their heads, as well as the perfection of the senses and the harmony in the members of the body that other creatures of this state have in the past, and they have a mind and mind that other creatures do not have these states. (مجمع البحرين / ج 6 / ص 146) 
Allameh Tabatabai also says: "From the point of view of mankind, man has the essence of existence and the conditions of existence, and the harmony in which he has the best form of creation." According to the next verse, the meaning of the word of the safflein, the man, by virtue of creation, is able to reach the divine position of eternal weight In which there is no hard work and God has placed this ability on human beings for the sake of the abundance of knowledge embodied in him and the beneficent action that is obtained in the light of good science, and other creatures do not have these qualities. (Al-Mizan, 20, P. 319) 
Thus, the concept of its existential equilibrium in man is the apparent beauty of the human being's existential members for the happiness of the world and the future. It is not a single member of the existential of man to be more durable than other beings. 

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9 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Generally speaking, evil is the void of good; we being fallible beings and having free will have the ability to make choices that are void of good, health or justice. Evil is simply the absence or deficiency of good, by itself, Evil doesn't exist. 

I find this line of reasoning somewhat feeble:

That evil is the absence of good is nothing more than a play on words wrapped in an appealing analogy. The principal error is that defining cold as an absence of heat only means that cold does not exist as a physical quantity - the sensation of cold as perceived by humans clearly does exist. Similarly, it is irrelevant whether evil exists as a positive or only as a lack of good — the perception of evil does exist.
If someone murders a man's wife, you would tell him that his wife did not experience evil, she just experienced a temporary lack of God while the killer was stabbing her with a knife. However, the man still experiences suffering and his wife is dead, regardless of how you  describe this event. 

 

Both the Bible and the Quran are clear God created evil. 

Bible:  I form the light, and create darkness: make peace, and create evil : I the LORD do all these things.(Isaiah 45:7) 
113.001/2 SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn, From the evil of what He has created,

"Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs."[Quran 39:62]

The problem of evil is:
The visible amount of misery/suffering/pain in this world is really not compatible with the God in the benevolent form described by organised religions.

A good answer to this has never been found.

*

 

Edited by Quisant

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Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Rahim and Altin and Al-Zaytun (1) and Cainin (2) and Haza al-Bold Al-Amin (3) Al-Qaeda in the form of a calendar year (4) ... 

Translate verses 

By the grace of Rahman and Rahim, you are sworn in two lands (the Prophets) and Jerusalem (or sworn to figs and olives) (1). 

And swear to the land in Sinai (2). 

This is what Amin (3) swore to Mecca. 

That we created mankind the best system of creation (4) 

The title of the book is the first time in the book. This verse is the answer to the four preceding sentences, and the purpose of creating a person in the best of the calendar is that: all aspects of the existence of man and all of his shades include calendars. 


And the meaning of the human calendar is that he has consistency, and qawam is about everything and every condition and condition that human stability and survival require, and the meaning of the human word is the human sex, then the human sex according to His creation is consistency. 


And it is not only consistency, but also the best of consistency in terms of creation, and the following statement, which says: Tham Reddan Dash, is used as the source of creation in such a way that He has the authority to rise to the Supreme Exaltation, and to achieve the vital life of Khalid near his Lord, and to achieve pure prosperity from the brutality, which is because God is equipping him with the knowledge that he can gain with that knowledge. He also gave him the tools and instruments of doing good and said: "Our soul and ourselves are believers of felons and virtues, and whenever they believe in what they have known, and by virtue of righteous deeds, Allah God gives him her hand and raises the rise, as said, valerian and reaction layer Kelam Ysd 

.......................... 

http://www.andisheqom.com/Files/quranshenasi.php?idVeiw=28003&level=4&subid=28003 

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Nahjul Balagha Part 1, The Sermons

The English translation (accompanied with original Arabic text) of the supremely eloquent sermons of the Commander of the Faithful, Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (peace be upon him)

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons

Sermon 1: Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described….

In this sermon he recalls the creation of Earth and Sky and the creation of Adam and in it he mentions the Hajj

ومن خطبة له (عليه السلام) يذكر فيها ابتداءَ خلق السماءِ والاَرض، وخلق آدم عليه الصلاة والسلام

(فيها ذكر الحج)

(وتحتوي على حمد الله، وخلق العالم، وخلق الملائكة، واختيار الانبياء، ومبعث النبي، والقرآن، والاحكام الشرعية)

Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks.

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13 hours ago, kirtc said:

Im just gonna try one more time

You are imperfect yourself, does that mean God didnt create you? are you not capable of evil?

Yes alot of evil. Yes I geuss God created me too. Probably the overall plan of God is accomplished even when there exists beings who do more evil than good.

Edited by sefket83

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12 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Remember how I said that we are limited? It is us who do less than good with deficits in reason, logic and understanding. We cause the absence of good through our selfish desires and privatization of good. We have the ability to choose evil. It is a choice. Evil comes from people, not God.

I think evil does exist because if there were no evil then there would be no suffering so either God has an overall plan for everything where it all leads to more goodness then evil or evil is not caused by God.

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3 hours ago, Quisant said:

I find this line of reasoning somewhat feeble:

That evil is the absence of good is nothing more than a play on words wrapped in an appealing analogy. The principal error is that defining cold as an absence of heat only means that cold does not exist as a physical quantity - the sensation of cold as perceived by humans clearly does exist. Similarly, it is irrelevant whether evil exists as a positive or only as a lack of good — the perception of evil does exist.
If someone murders a man's wife, you would tell him that his wife did not experience evil, she just experienced a temporary lack of God while the killer was stabbing her with a knife. However, the man still experiences suffering and his wife is dead, regardless of how you  describe this event. 

 

Both the Bible and the Quran are clear God created evil. 

Bible:  I form the light, and create darkness: make peace, and create evil : I the LORD do all these things.(Isaiah 45:7) 
113.001/2 SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn, From the evil of what He has created,

"Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs."[Quran 39:62]

The problem of evil is:
The visible amount of misery/suffering/pain in this world is really not compatible with the God in the benevolent form described by organised religions.

A good answer to this has never been found.

*

 

God is not omnipotent. That is the solution. The creation in total is more good then evil.

Edited by sefket83

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