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islam25

why do Infallible imams Repent.?

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We  usually encounter in duas and munajats by infallible imams that they constantly and regularly Repent. And we also know that imams are Infallible.                             So you do imams repent when they are Infallible?

Edited by islam25

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16 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Why usually encounter in duas and munajats by infallible imams that they constantly and regularly Repent. And we also know that imams are Infallible.                             So you do imams repent when they are Infallible?

They are the chosen servants of Allah swt. to mark the superiority of the creator above all i(including them being the best creation of Allah swt) they reflect the characteristics given by Allah swt.

They do say the words of repent to mark the glory of their and our supreme creator. It also leads us to learn the way how to repent when needed. It does also describe how to make Dua to Allah swt who is above all the chosen creations being the best creator.

No one can learn the way to make dua and supplications if they had not provided us the method of it..

The infallibility is well proven in the light of the verses of quran and hadith of the prophet saww and imams AS..

Edited by skyweb1987

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Guest 2TheBarnacle

No matter how many times somebody answers this question people will not accept it cause they have not gained a level of faith of understanding the magnanimity of a)the Imams b)God 

There is more than one answer here, the first is that to teach us how to seek forgiveness which is the obvious one 

The second alot of the time the actual cries of seeking forgiveness answer this question . Its not always about doing the GREAT sins , but when higher levels of faith are attained then higher responsibility is given to the person from God 

When a person gains understanding of God by God's guidance(this cant happen by our own selves God must approve it and then allow it and then the knowledge is given) the certain responsibilities are required from that person , for example tabatabai in his book says that when a person reaches a higher level of faith then makhrooh becomes haram and mustahabat becomes compulsory , but it also goes for other things 

at this level even the attention of the person must be always on God, and if he takes his attention away from God to something of the Dunya then he seeks forgiveness from God for that i.e he lowered his attention from something greater to something lower and many times in the duas when the Imams are seeking forgiveness they mention this , they say 'forgive me for letting my nafs overcome me and blinding myself from your omnipresence etc" and along those lines 

so they are seeking forgiveness for even thinking about Dunya too much or putting more attention and focus on this life as opposed to the afterlife where they are instructed to have their eye on constantly 

also another thing you must understand is this infallibility characteristic, which doesnt mean that they are without mistake as if they are some kind of robots ,  but it refers to the mistakes which are considered greater and minor sins , which never touched them, i.e they never swore, they never stole, they never adulterated they never lied etc thats the character of infallibility, but there is a lesson in this here, and that is that God is indeed the greatest, if they had perfect concentration and never once altered their attention or faltered their attention from God to dunya then they wouldnt be much of an example, they would be some kind of superhuman if you can even call them human, they would be some rank above angels  , and it wouldnt make sense to have them as role models because we cant compete with robots and robots cant be used as arguments against us because they are perfect in what they are programmed to do etc 

so hopefully that answers your question 
 

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7 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

They are the chosen servants of Allah swt. to mark the superiority of the creator above all i(including them being the best creation of Allah swt) they reflect the characteristics given by Allah swt.

They do say the words of repent to mark the glory of their and our supreme creator. It also leads us to learn the way how to repent when needed. It does also describe how to make Dua to Allah swt who is above all the chosen creations being the best creator.

No one can learn the way to make dua and supplications if they had not provided us the method of it..

The infallibility is well proven in the light of the verses of quran and hadith of the prophet saww and imams AS..

That is great. But there should be some important point in it.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

That is great. But there should be some important point in it.

My ustad quoted this - "Prophets and Messengers repent because they sometime don't choose the best option when placed in a test. Imams and Prophet(saws) because he was also the Imam repent because whenever they got involved in some task such as speaking to some Sahaba , etc and their ENTIRE direction of soul is not towards Allah but just a part remains in His direction as long as they are distracted by someone else, for that short span of time where they missed the entire meditation towards Allah, they repent. So it is not repentance of a Sinner, but a repentance of Holy and Pure beings in His awe. They show what God means to them."

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3 hours ago, islam25 said:

We  usually encounter in duas and munajats by infallible imams that they constantly and regularly Repent. And we also know that imams are Infallible.                             So you do imams repent when they are Infallible?

Imam Ali a.s mentioned two type of people whose thirst for something never exhausts that are a lover of knowledge and a person who accumulates wealth. 

As a servant of Imam Ali a.s, I have discovered that that was in worldly affairs. In the spiritual affairs there are also two type of people who never admits what they really are: 1) Iblis that he is wrong 2) Momin that he is a on high position...So, out of their such nature, Iblis never ceases to look down upon others and Momin never ceases to look down upon himself as a humble creation.....A momin considers every worship to be less and thus, sometimes repents even though he has not sinned but because he thinks that he has not fulfilled the right of worship of Allah AWJ. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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1 hour ago, Waseem162 said:

My ustad quoted this - "Prophets and Messengers repent because they sometime don't choose the best option when placed in a test. Imams and Prophet(saws) because he was also the Imam repent because whenever they got involved in some task such as speaking to some Sahaba , etc and their ENTIRE direction of soul is not towards Allah but just a part remains in His direction as long as they are distracted by someone else, for that short span of time where they missed the entire meditation towards Allah, they repent. So it is not repentance of a Sinner, but a repentance of Holy and Pure beings in His awe. They show what God means to them."

Helping Sahaba is Worship of Allah AWJ as well for Allah AWJ has placed responsibility of the guidance upon Prophets and Imams. I disagree with respect to your teacher respectfully. 

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10 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Helping Sahaba is Worship of Allah AWJ as well for Allah AWJ has placed responsibility of the guidance upon Prophets and Imams. I disagree with respect to your teacher respectfully. 

My brother, it is. But with Entire Mediation towards Allah means being in Unity with Allah. Also they repented of not thanking Allah as He deserves to be thanked. No one could thank and worship Allah as He deserves to be worshiped and thanked.  And my friend, My Ustaad is much knowledgeable than us. 

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5 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

My brother, it is. But with Entire Mediation towards Allah means being in Unity with Allah. Also they repented of not thanking Allah as He deserves to be thanked. No one could thank and worship Allah as He deserves to be worshiped and thanked.  And my friend, My Ustaad is much knowledgeable than us. 

I have respect and honor for your teacher and Indeed, I assume that he is your teacher, so he must be a man of higher attributes as you are his disciple and represent him and I regard you the ambassador of your teacher. But, we are not infallible and we may disagree depending upon different rational approach. I believed that helping the people without having need for that and only for the sake of Allah AWJ is his meditation as well. However, I agree to the second sentence which says that no one can thank Him as He AWJ deserves to be. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Imam Ali a.s mentioned two type of people whose thirst for something never exhausts that are a lover of knowledge and a person who accumulates wealth. 

As a servant of Imam Ali a.s, I have discovered that that was in worldly affairs. In the spiritual affairs there are also two type of people who never admits what they really are: 1) Iblis that he is wrong 2) Momin that he is a on high position...So, out of their such nature, Iblis never ceases to look down upon others and Momin never ceases to look down upon himself as a humble creation.....A momin considers every worship to be less and thus, sometimes repents even though he has not sinned but because he thinks that he has not fulfilled the right of worship of Allah AWJ. 

Brother you have rightly answered. The other important point is the humans if continue to  thank Allah for whole his life every it will never be equivalent to the mercy,blessing  and favour that Allah has bestowed upon humans. So anyone who recognise Allah and his mercy and favour, he will definitely thank and praise Allah whole his life. And he will also admit that his thanks and prays for Allah is not sufficient enough as compared to blessing giving by Allah. So naturally this person will repent and feel ashamed before Allah for his inability to thank Allah. That is what imams do. 

Second point as @Waseem162 pointed that the lack of full attention that Allah deserve to be given make Infallible imams to repent as indicated by Imam Ali as in munajate shabanyah. 

There might be more important reasons as some awlias says that imams constantly witness grandeur and majesty of Allah that makes imams to constantly repent and feel humble .

Edited by islam25

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9 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Second point as @Waseem162 pointed that the lack of full attention that Allah deserve to be given make Infallible imams to repent as indicated by Imam Ali as in munajate shabanyah. 

I am human being, I disagree with this statement because I am not superior than Imams to point out towards their inabilities, I look to them as perfect creations as described by Allah AWJ and, therefore, have belief that they were never negligent of worshiping to God that is what Quran says that those are Momineen who whether stand or sit or lie on their back do not forget to remember their Lord. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

I am human being, I disagree with this statement because I am not superior than Imams to point out towards their inabilities, I look to them as perfect creations as described by Allah AWJ and, therefore, have belief that they were never negligent of worshiping to God that is what Quran says that those are Momineen who whether sit or walk do not forget to remember their Lord. 

Mr.it is not  we that has pointed. Rather the imams themselves admitted. It is not drawback of imams Rather it indicates what real Allah is.

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4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.it is not  we that has pointed. Rather the imams themselves admitted. It is not drawback of imams Rather it indicates what real Allah is.

Imams did not say that they neglected Allah AWJ even for a moment and this is a opinion of people not Imam themselves. The Imams' repentance is just for telling that no matter how sincere you be towards God, it is still less and therefore that repentance is admitting that Ya Allah! I repent that I am unable to praise your name for your are huge and I am too little to fulfill your praise. 

Secondly, I take their repentance like the repentance of Angels who repent but Allah AWJ has reserved it to be counted for the believers. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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5 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Imams did not say that they neglected Allah AWJ even for a moment and this is a opinion of people not Imam themselves. The Imams' repentance is just for telling that no matter how sincere you be towards God, it is still less and therefore that repentance is admitting that Ya Allah! I repent that I am unable to praise your name for your are huge and I am too little to fulfill your praise. 

Secondly, I take their repentance like the repentance of Angels who repent but Allah AWJ has reserved it to be counted for the believers. 

Mr.

It is in reference to Allah and his favour. It is never possible for any to give due attention to Allah and his favours. That what Imam refers that he remained ignorant to towards favours of Allah. 

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23 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Imams did not say that they neglected Allah AWJ even for a moment and this is a opinion of people not Imam themselves. The Imams' repentance is just for telling that no matter how sincere you be towards God, it is still less and therefore that repentance is admitting that Ya Allah! I repent that I am unable to praise your name for your are huge and I am too little to fulfill your praise. 

Secondly, I take their repentance like the repentance of Angels who repent but Allah AWJ has reserved it to be counted for the believers. 

They are the best beings ever created. let me change my words - They "felt" that lack of attention even though they were paying full attention to Allah. It is an attribute of a Momin that he thinks whatever he does is just simple and not praiseworthy. He feels humble and down trodden. So this is the reason that even infallibals repent. "In awe of Allah and in their humility."

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Let me put my opinion in more clear sense - @Sindbad05 We exactly share the same opinion. We just worded it differently , where you worded it more correctly and aptly. Imams are the perfect creation of Allah ever created and ever to be created.

None is above them except Him. They are in Divine Unity since ever.

Not a moment pass that they come out of this state. But as every Imam is the highest of Momin, the attribute of Humility and down troddeness is at peak. No matter how much they pray, thank, fast, cry.. They feel they have done nothing to the One who deserves what He deserves.

I remember one Riwayat where Rasool Allah (saws) May our souls be sacrificed for our Beloved Master, He(saws) the entire night prayed 2 rakats and went to sleep, can't sleep, came again and prayed 2 rakats, again and again until it was morning.

This showed how much drenched he (saws) was in Love for his beloved. He was not satisfied by praying to him. This thirst and feeling of lack of thankfulness and worship made them cry on their knees, It is the best station to be.

May Allah make us thirst for Him too :'(

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Mr.

It is in reference to Allah and his favour. It is never possible for any to give due attention to Allah and his favours. That what Imam refers that he remained ignorant to towards favours of Allah. 

Lolz, it is humility that you mistook for ignorance bro. Allah AWJ has vowed to purify them an absolute purification and those who are purified are not ignorant to the worshiping their Lord for that is the word of Allah. So, do not take their humility for  faults in them that will be blasphemy of Allah AWJ that He AWJ did not fulfilled his promise to protect them from ignorance. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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10 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Lolz, it is humility that you mistook for ignorance bro. Allah AWJ has vowed to purify the an absolute purification and those who are purified are not ignorant to the worshiping their Lord for that is the word of Allah. So, do not take their humility for  faults in them that will be blasphemy of Allah AWJ that He AWJ did not fulfilled his promise to protect them from ignorance. 

Exactly.. !! Ignorance is far way from them. They are the purest of all. Closest to Allah with just a distance of an arrow tip!

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7 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Lolz, it is humility that you mistook for ignorance bro. Allah AWJ has vowed to purify them an absolute purification and those who are purified are not ignorant to the worshiping their Lord for that is the word of Allah. So, do not take their humility for  faults in them that will be blasphemy of Allah AWJ that He AWJ did not fulfilled his promise to protect them from ignorance. 

O my God, (please) manage my affairs in the very way that befits You,

il¡h¢ tawalla min amr¢ m¡ anta ahluh£

إِلٰهِي تَوَلَّ مِنْ امْرِي مَا انْتَ اهْلُهُ

and confer upon me—a sinful person who is covered by his ignorance—with Your favors.

Imam Ali. 

Edited by islam25

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7 hours ago, Waseem162 said:

Exactly.. !! Ignorance is far way from them. They are the purest of all. Closest to Allah with just a distance of an arrow tip!

O my God, (please) manage my affairs in the very way that befits You,

il¡h¢ tawalla min amr¢ m¡ anta ahluh£

إِلٰهِي تَوَلَّ مِنْ امْرِي مَا انْتَ اهْلُهُ

and confer upon me—a sinful person who is covered by his ignorance—with Your favors.

Imam Ali. 

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3 hours ago, islam25 said:

O my God, (please) manage my affairs in the very way that befits You,

il¡h¢ tawalla min amr¢ m¡ anta ahluh£

إِلٰهِي تَوَلَّ مِنْ امْرِي مَا انْتَ اهْلُهُ

and confer upon me—a sinful person who is covered by his ignorance—with Your favors.

Imam Ali. 

The ignorance they quote and the ignorance we quote has way too different meanings my dear friend.

One thing you accept is nothing is Purer than Allah himself. He is Qudduus!

So the purity Imams have are surely lesser than Allah because Allah is the Most High, All Mighty.

This gap of perfection that is between Allah and Imams is quoted as the ignorance by them.

Because this gap is eternal and is never be going to filled up because journey towards Allah is unending. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

The ignorance they quote and the ignorance we quote has way too different meanings my dear friend.

One thing you accept is nothing is Purer than Allah himself. He is Qudduus!

So the purity Imams have are surely lesser than Allah because Allah is the Most High, All Mighty.

This gap of perfection that is between Allah and Imams is quoted as the ignorance by them.

Because this gap is eternal and is never be going to filled up because journey towards Allah is unending. 

 

Mr.May be your answer is right  .It never meant that imams remain ignorant. Rather despite their all efforts to serve and remember Allah, they still feel that Allah deserve more attention and thanks than what they did. 

Do you in battle of trench when umroo spitted towards imam Ali as that Imam had to repent  because anger had intervened as reason for killing umroo than pleasure of Allah. So first imam Ali as repented cooled his anger and then killed umroo. So that lapse attention towards other than Allah even for fraction of second made imam to repent.  

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16 hours ago, islam25 said:

So you do imams repent when they are Infallible?

Once Imam Ali (as) heard someone saying, “I ask Allah to forgive me”. He said to him, “Woe unto you! Do you know what “asking for forgiveness “is? asking for forgiveness is the position of “illiyeen".

وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا عِلِّيُّونَ
كِتَابٌ مَّرْقُومٌ
يَشْهَدُهُ الْمُقَرَّبُونَ

And what will make you know what the highest illiyun is?
It is a written book, Those who are drawn near (to Allah) shall witness it. (83:19-21)

It is such an blessed act that righteous people will continue to recite it after this worldly life:

يَوْمَ لَا يُخْزِي اللَّهُ النَّبِيَّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَعَهُ نُورُهُمْ يَسْعَى بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَبِأَيْمَانِهِمْ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا أَتْمِمْ لَنَا نُورَنَا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا إِنَّكَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

On the day on which Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him; their light shall run on before them and on their right hands; they shall say: Our Lord! make perfect for us our light, and grant us protection, surely Thou hast power over all things. (66:8)


 

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Do you in battle of trench when umroo spitted towards imam Ali as that Imam had to repent  because anger had intervened as reason for killing umroo than pleasure of Allah. So first imam Ali as repented cooled his anger and then killed umroo. So that lapse attention towards other than Allah even for fraction of second made imam to repent.  

I am sorry but Imam didn't repent on that instance and instead moved away so that from Umro ibn Abduwad so that personal anger may not affect ibadah. Jihad was Ibadah for Ali a.s, he didn't fight for his personal gains but for Allah.

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