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Next Level of Evolution (Embarrassing infidels)

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There have been numerous signs of Allah AWJ in this universe which bespeaks of the fact that He AWJ can change the laws of nature on His Will. The two of the signs that we know are mentioned in the Quran are: 1) Birth of Adam a.s who had no father and mother and 2) Birth of Jesus a.s who was born without father.

However, there is a third most important aspect of this world which render the evolutionary theorists confused. This thing is the presence of final human specie in this world. You might have been feeling wonder that why did not we know this before!!!!! is not it ????? The fact is that you know it but you haven't realized like till today I have realized.

The process of evolution is deemed to make creation perfect that is what Evolutionary theorists believe. However, those perfect beings were already present and that were the Prophets and Imams. These people have ascended to the final level of human perfection having knowledge, manners and direct contact with Allah AWJ. One of such being is still present among us but is hidden from our eyes due to the Will of Allah and that is Imam Mehdi a.s. So, this fact would really annihilate the confusion of infidels that are thinking about final destiny of the evolutionary process, so to answer them those perfect beings are Prophets and Imams and Nature is at the finger tips of my Allah. 

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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

The process of evolution is deemed to make creation perfect that is what Evolutionary theorists believe.

That is not true. 

The 'purpose' of evolution is only to make an organism more suited to its environment, so it can survive for longer and thus reproduce. Being so inherently physical, it has little to do with moral or cognitive perfection. In anatomical terms (which is what evolution deals with), Prophets and Imams are like us.

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48 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

That is not true. 

The 'purpose' of evolution is only to make an organism more suited to its environment, so it can survive for longer and thus reproduce. Being so inherently physical, it has little to do with moral or cognitive perfection. In anatomical terms (which is what evolution deals with), Prophets and Imams are like us.

I see, you mean to say that apes are no longer living right now because we apes transformed into humans to live longer ? While I see that apes are still living bro. The purpose of evolution according to pro-evolutionary theorists is not only same as that of what you have said but they also trace "intellectual" change where they had little "intellectual approach" before but now they have better approach. However, I refute their certain theory on the basis that since our "intellect" and "body" has achieved stages to reach to this human form, the existence of Prophets and Imams tell us that "the humans have not yet achieved perfect intellect although they have perfect body"....So, this thing is enough to confuse the theorists about their theory and they would wonder and why should not they at seeing the most perfect beings such as Prophets and Imams. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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5 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:
6 hours ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

That is not true. 

The 'purpose' of evolution is only to make an organism more suited to its environment, so it can survive for longer and thus reproduce. Being so inherently physical, it has little to do with moral or cognitive perfection. In anatomical terms (which is what evolution deals with), Prophets and Imams are like us.

I see, you mean to say that apes are no longer living right now because we apes transformed into humans to live longer ?

No, you missed the point, in the theory of evolution, humans are derived from a small group of apes who developed the ability to walk upright in a bipedal manner, communicate and speak with noises (language) and more advanced cognitive function that their predecessors. The changes happened as a result of the environment they lived in and the mutations in their genes.

To materialists, atheists and religious people who deny evolution: This is truly evidence of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, you are more likely to get a plane assembled in a tornado than recreating the evolution of life on Earth. Furthermore, it is unreasonable to believe that we came from a primordial soup to being mankind in a random manner. For the evolution to happen the way it did, it had to been guided by an intelligent force.

Consider these ayat: أَيَحْسَبُ الْإِنسَانُ أَلَّن نَّجْمَعَ عِظَامَهُ - 75:3

بَلَىٰ قَادِرِينَ عَلَىٰ أَن نُّسَوِّيَ بَنَانَهُ - 75:4

If we can be assembled on Qiyamah, why couldn't we come and be made from evolution as well? 

أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا ۖ وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ ۖ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ - 21:30

وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ مِنَ الْمَاءِ بَشَرًا فَجَعَلَهُ نَسَبًا وَصِهْرًا ۗ وَكَانَ رَبُّكَ قَدِيرًا - 25:54

وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَ كُلَّ دَابَّةٍ مِّن مَّاءٍ ۖ فَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ بَطْنِهِ وَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ رِجْلَيْنِ وَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ أَرْبَعٍ ۚ يَخْلُقُ اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ - 24:45

^ It has been scientifically proven that we, all living things are mostly made up of water, and the theory of evolution states life began in the water, which is confirmed in the Quran also. We came from the primordial soup/water but it was ultimately guided, not randomized. 

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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4 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I don't know why people are so against evolution. It doesn't disprove Allah سبحانه وتعالى

First of all, it is a theory and not yet a natural law yet because observations here just assumed for theoretical purposes. bro, I am implying on this matter as an student, if you are pro-evolutionary theory, you should welcome any point which is related to it.

 

5 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

^ It has been scientifically proven that we, all living things are mostly made up of water, and the theory of evolution states life began in the water, which is confirmed in the Quran also. We came from the primordial soup/water but it was ultimately guided, not randomized. 

Randomization is also a selection by an entity, there has to have multiple things to randomly select from anyone of the two and two things are created when they be separate and separation is created by a force that differ them and that is Allah AWJ who contains two things in their own limitations. Selecting one randomly is deselecting other things randomly, so both are selected for randomly for specif purposes. However, an atheist believes it to be randomly selected and I believe it to be divinely chosen. 

 

5 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, you missed the point, in the theory of evolution, humans are derived from a small group of apes who developed the ability to walk upright in a bipedal manner, communicate and speak with noises (language) and more advanced cognitive function that their predecessors. The changes happened as a result of the environment they lived in and the mutations in their genes.

I do not think so bro, in evolutionary theory, every bipedal animal has been derived from animal that walks on four legs that is why that in the evolutionary theory, you are showed an ape walking before bipedal Homo sapien that is still in between ape and human. And, secondly, you said that they talked with more advanced cognitive functions right ? So, if you assumed for them, then I am telling you that a more advanced human is already among us who should have been achieved after we have passed evolutionary processes and that is Prophets and Imams who know every language and talks with birds and plants and understands people through their faces even though they had not uttered a word. Do you know that Prophet PBUHHP said: "Whole humanity has been granted 1 out of 10 words of knowledge and Ali is granted 9 out of 10 words of knowledge and even from 10th word, Ali shares same with the others and retains most of it"...so, if we assume that whole the development, the cognitive difference is only difference that makes human superior to animals. And among humans, prophets and Imams are superior to humans, which should be assumed as next level of evolution but  to the dismay of pro-evolutionary theory, the advanced version of humans have lived among the humans itself. 

Our mind only possibly uses not more that 5% of it's capability, while that of Prophets and Imams, it had much more capability that is why Imam Ali a.s said: "I was taught 1000 chapters by Prophets of different subjects and derived 1000 chapters from each of them"....And, if we assume the present disciplines, they fall short of those 1000000 different fields and not one human among us claims that much knowledge except Ahlebait a.s. So,  were the advanced humans or super humans. Now, I ask evolutionary theorists that if you assume that evolution has resulted that modern human then why is evolution in shackles before Prophets and Imams. Is it that there is someone else who has showed you that I am in charge and I do what I want and not dependent on evolution and so on so forth. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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36 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

And, secondly, you said that they talked with more advanced cognitive functions right ?

More advanced cognitive function than their predecessors, yes. Much like how Imams and Prophets (as) are more aware than us in terms of spirituality.

36 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

And among humans, prophets and Imams are superior to humans, which should be assumed as next level of evolution but they to the dismay of pro-evolutionary theory, the advanced version of humans have lived among the humans itself. 

What if I were you to tell you that the evolution theory was never meant to replace religion or measure spirituality but to help a develop deeper understanding of a physical science, biology.

36 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

So, if you assumed for them, then I am telling you that a more advanced human is already among us who should have been achieved after we have passed evolutionary processes and that is Prophets and Imams who know every language and talks with birds and plants and understands people through their faces even though they had not uttered a word.

I know but as far as science is concerned and especially, biology and the theory of evolution, spirituality and the ismah are not revelant measurements. But much to the dismay of the materialistic minded and atheists, the theory of evolution points to us as a pinnacle of evolution and creation. We can do a lot that most animals can never do. Theory of evolution only measures anatomy like Patience said , the Prophets and Imams (as) are by that definition, homo sapien sapiens.

We are only ones that drive vehicles, fly planes, build mosques, worship Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, drastically change the environment, farm and start wars. What other animal can come close to Mankind? Hence theory of evolution glorifies Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى as the Creator.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

More advanced cognitive function than their predecessors, yes. Much like how Imams and Prophets (as) are more aware than us in terms of spirituality.

What if I were you to tell you that the evolution theory was never meant to replace religion or measure spirituality but to help a develop deeper understanding of a physical science, biology.

I know but as far as science is concerned and especially, biology and the theory of evolution, spirituality and the ismah are not revelant measurements. But much to the dismay of the materialistic minded and atheists, the theory of evolution points to us as a pinnacle of evolution and creation. We can do a lot that most animals can never do. Theory of evolution only measures anatomy like Patience said , the Prophets and Imams (as) are by that definition, homo sapien sapiens.

We are only ones that drive vehicles, fly planes, build mosques, worship Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, drastically change the environment, farm and start wars. What other animal can come close to Mankind? Hence theory of evolution glorifies Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى as the Creator.

I am not talking about whether theory of evolution glorifies Allah AWJ or not. I am saying that like Adam a.s and Jesus a.s were miracles that came without the normal process as other people are born, the Prophets and Imams also are a sign telling humans that you may consider that evolution to be a process through which a creation reaches to it's perfection in physical, intellectual and spiritual sense but I have also created beings without the need of such evolutionary theory and science depends upon Allah AWJ. 

Do you think @Gaius I. Caesar that there can be another prophet after Prophet PBUHHP in this world after one thousand years later on ? If you say that there cannot be then you have to accept that Prophet PBUHHP was the most perfect being and hence there is no further possible advance version of human beings after the Prophet. However, if one does not accept it then he will cease to be a Muslim......Not only Prophets and Imams but also there were many thinkers whose imaginative powers exceeded than of this generation. So, this a set back to the theory of evolution and a vital pitfall. 

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

I am not talking about whether theory of evolution glorifies Allah AWJ or not. I am saying that like Adam a.s and Jesus a.s were miracles that came without the normal process as other people are born, the Prophets and Imams also are a sign telling humans that you may consider that evolution to be a process through which a creation reaches to it's perfection in physical, intellectual and spiritual sense but I have also created beings without the need of such evolutionary theory and science depends upon Allah AWJ. 

Do you think @Gaius I. Caesar that there can be another prophet after Prophet PBUHHP in this world after one thousand years later on ? If you say that there cannot be then you have to accept that Prophet PBUHHP was the most perfect being and hence there is no further possible advance version of human beings after the Prophet. However, if one does not accept it then he will cease to be a Muslim......Not only Prophets and Imams but also there were many thinkers whose imaginative powers exceeded than of this generation. So, this a set back to the theory of evolution and a vital pitfall. 

No, what your saying has nothing to do with evolution and I would not and do not because it is a contradiction to Islam. I am beginning to think you don't understand what you are arguing about.

Re-read what Shaykh wrote^

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7 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I don't know why people are so against evolution. It doesn't disprove Allah سبحانه وتعالى

One could easily find the basis of the theory of evolution in early muslim scholars. I loved the words that Ibn Khaldun dedicated to evolution in al Muqaddima (I seriously have to make a thread solely for this book):

“One should then look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word “connection” with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the next group.

The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man. This is as far as our (physical) observation extends.”

Source: Kitab al-Muqaddima by Ibn Khaldun, five centuries before Darwin's On The Origin Of Species.

http://www.cambridgeislamicsciences.com/evolution-ibn-khaldun-the-progressives/

Edited by Bakir

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7 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, what your saying has nothing to do with evolution and I would not and do not because it is a contradiction to Islam. I am beginning to think you don't understand what you are arguing about.

Re-read what Shaykh wrote^

It does not make any difference, since you yourself accepted that we have better cognitive senses than our predecessors and this is what evolution theory suggests and on this basis which you have provided, I say that Prophets and Imams have better cognitive abilities than us and thus are advanced human beings but they aren't the result of evolution....sorry to say bro.

Edited by Sindbad05

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1 minute ago, Bakir said:

One could easily find the basis of the theory of evolution in early muslim scholars. I loved the words that Ibn Khaldun dedicated to evolution in al Muqaddima (I seriously have to make a thread solely for this book):

“The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man. This is as far as our (physical) observation extends.”

Source: Kitab al-Muqaddima by Ibn Khaldun, five centuries before Darwin's On The Origins Of Species.

http://www.cambridgeislamicsciences.com/evolution-ibn-khaldun-the-progressives/

Yeah but our presence in the presence of monkey is itself an evidence that both species are existing within same time frame and thus monkeys are not predecessors of human beings.....likewise, human beings also witnessed people with higher cognitive abilities to be present with them which according to the passage given by evolution should be achieved billions of years after them but Prophets and Imams were present and both atheists and believers have accepted their higher cognitive abilities....which in my opinion is pitfall in the evolutionary theory. How could there be advanced version of human while they haven't gone through billions of process to make them such ?

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Sorry, I am not getting you (I somehow stopped reading after the post I quoted earlier).

Are you implying that prophets have different species?

That could not be possible because they married people who were not prophets nor imams, and had children woth those people, and so on. In the other hand, let's imagine that both species could have children. Sayyeds would then be a higher version of humans, and I honestly haven't appreciated such a difference.

 

As a side note, this stuff is only discussed in Shiachat, seriously...

Edited by Bakir

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11 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I say that Prophets and Imams have better cognitive abilities than us and thus are advanced human beings but they aren't the result of evolution

It doesn't work like that, evolution only deals with physical anatomy. Not moral, ethical or spiritual superiority. This is simply confirming my thoughts that you are confused.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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1 minute ago, Bakir said:

Sorry, I am not getting you (I somehow stopped reading after the post I quoted earlier).

Are you implying that prophets have different species?

That could not be possible because they married people who were not prophets nor imams, and had children woth those people, and so on. In the other hand, let's imagine that both species could have children. Sayyeds would then be a higher version of humans, and I honestly haven't appreciated such a difference.

 

As a side note, this stuff is only discussed in Shiachat, seriously...

No bro not according to appearance but according to intellect, they are our advanced version. That is why they were called Aql-e-Kamil or the complete intellect while we cannot claim such thing. And this is not the result of evolution but miracle of Allah, so a question mark for pro-evolution people.

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1 minute ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It doesn't work like that, evolution only deals with physical anatomy. Not moral, ethical or spiritual superiority.

hahahaha, tell me if any monkey has same intellect than us if evolutionary theory only deals with physical anatomy, because if that be the case, then our minds and apes brains should be similar and they should also wear T-shirts and be scientists. bro...

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You are misunderstanding the scientific term and meaning of evolution in the field of biology.

I recognize that a person that is close to Allah may attain a knowledge from Allah, not from sensible sources. However, I don't recognize such experience as exclusive to someone, in the sense that anyone who works on getting closer to Allah swt may be blessed with such knowledge.

Lastly, I must remind you this has nothing to do with biology, it is not an idea to defend in a scientific debate. It belongs to the field of mysticism, if any.

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2 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

And this is not the result of evolution but miracle of Allah, so a question mark for pro-evolution people.

That's not a question mark for me, Allah blessed Muhammad and his Household as according to Hadith Al Kisa.

Maybe to the irreligious it is.

 

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Just now, Bakir said:

You are misunderstanding the scientific term and meaning of evolution in the field of biology.

I recognize that a person that is close to Allah may attain a knowledge from Allah, not from sensible sources. However, I don't recognize such experience as exclusive to someone, in the sense that anyone who works on getting closer to Allah swt may be blessed with such knowledge.

Lastly, I must remind you this has nothing to do with biology, it is not an idea to defend in a scientific debate. It belongs to the field of mysticism, if any.

hahahahahahah, it has everything to do with biology lolz.....Have you read the traits of Ahlebait's physical body ? There are plenty of Hadith to tell you that a frangrance came from their bodies, they never erred in talking nor missed a shot in battles, the saliva of Prophet multiplied food and cured the eyes, the breath of Jesus a.s killed the diseases....So, aren't they physical traits granted to them by Allah AWJ ? 

So, those qualities qualify them for most perfect intellect, is not it ? 

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2 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

That's not a question mark for me, Allah blessed Muhammad and his Household as according to Hadith Al Kisa.

Maybe to the irreligious it is.

 

I did not said it is to you, I said to those who believe that evolution is responsible for all things, but it is Allah AWJ who is responsible for all things, He AWJ can bring forth something out of nothing and thus leaves people in thundering light as mentioned in Quran that Allah makes cloud thunder for them and they walk in and then take away their light and they stop and thus confuses them because they are unbelievers.

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6 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

hahahahahahah, it has everything to do with biology lolz.....Have you read the traits of Ahlebait's physical body ? There are plenty of Hadith to tell you that a frangrance came from their bodies, they never erred in talking nor missed a shot in battles, the saliva of Prophet multiplied food and cured the eyes, the breath of Jesus a.s killed the diseases....So, aren't they physical traits granted to them by Allah AWJ ? 

So, those qualities qualify them for most perfect intellect, is not it ? 

Again, you misunderstand what we are saying. Biology, evolution and human anatomy only deal with the physical. They are strictly physical in nature. They do not account for the miracles and spirituality of the Imams (as) and Prophets (as). That's why we have irfan, tafsir, hadith sciences and Quranic sciences.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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The qualities you refer to were ocassional, not permanent traits according to our narrations.

As for the examples on fragrance, indeed, that is true. A believer, who can be any person in the world, who performs, for instance, salat ul layl, is said that his body will smell good.

My point is that such blessings are just that, blessings. Not another species, because any human being can reach that level. Thus, it is our actions that differentiate us, not the species we belong to. It is the spiritual version of a person who showers and a person who doesn't shower. One will smell bad and the other good. That doesn't mean their biology is different.

For God's sake @Sindbad05...

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Just now, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Again, you misunderstand what we are saying. Biology, evolution and human anatomy only deal with the physical. They are strictly physical in nature. They do not account for the miracles and spirituality of the Imams (as) and Prophets (as).

Well, there were certain qualities with whom they were born bro, so you call them miracles and I call them thundering light for the unbelievers such as Prophets and Imams did not mistake and were infallible, thus their brain was such that it did not forget and was stronger than that of normal human being. They slept less, did not feel laziness, ate little and had strong endurance.....Also, they did not learnt from people but were born with inherent knowledge. To me everything is miracle even my hands and tongue and you speaking are miracles too but science call them result of process which required billions of years and what about physical attributes of those Prophets and Imams ???? Science is confused there bro, no answer for this. :( 

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