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11 hours ago, islam25 said:

 I know that sofism is real Islam as taught by quran and Ahlebayt as. 

 

This is not true. Quran and Ahlul bayt (as)  does not support such notion of Sufism. No offence, but you are presenting a deviant belief.  

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9 hours ago, power said:

This is not true. Quran and Ahlul bayt (as)  does not support such notion of Sufism. No offence, but you are presenting a deviant belief.  

Can you tell what is wrong in sofism. 

Sofism is loving Allah from core heart and doing every righteous action and worship with love and not as burden. 

Do you think it's against Islam and teaching of Ahlul-Bayt as.

The main problem is you have no true information about irfan and sofism.

You just read munajat from imam Ali as then comment. 

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Can you tell what is wrong in sofism. 

Sofism is loving Allah from core heart and doing every righteous action and worship with love and not as burden. 

Do you think it's against Islam and teaching of Ahlul-Bayt as.

The main problem is you have no true information about irfan and sofism.

You just read munajat from imam Ali as then comment. 

Sufism has nothing to do with Shiasim thats all i'm saying.

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3 hours ago, monad said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy

What kind of philosophy is being pointed at, it is quite a large subject.

Who were the Sufis during that period?. Do you know their names?

I agree with you on that philosophy is a very wide subject. The philosophy I believe is being referred to here is philosophy about the essence of Allah, or over the existance of Allah. For example look at these ahadith from Kitab at-Tawheed of Sheikh as-Saduq:

1 - أبي رحمه الله قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله، قال: حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن الحسن بن محبوب، عن علي بن رئاب، عن أبي بصير، قال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: تكلموا في خلق الله ولا تكلموا في الله فإن الكلام في الله لا يزيد إلا تحيرا.

Abi Rahmat Allah said: From Sa'ad bin Abdillah, from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa, frm Hassan bin Mahboub, from Ali bin Ra'ab, from Abi Baseer who said: Abi Ja'far (as) said: Speak on the creation of Allah and do not speak about Allah for speech (kalam) on Allah does not provide except confusion.

وبهذا الاسناد، عن أبي بصير، قال: قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: يهلك أصحاب الكلام، وينجو المسلمون إن المسلمين هم النجباء 

And with this isnad, from Abi Baseer, said: Said Abu Abdullah (as): “People of kalam (theology/philosophy) would perish, and the obedient/submitters(muslims) would be safe, indeed the obedient (muslims) they are of high character.”

4 hours ago, islam25 said:

Sofi says purify your heart through repenting and crying at noght by fearing Allah and salatul layl. 

Judaism promotes good character, worship and belief in monotheism. Should I call myself a Shia Jew?

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1 hour ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

I agree with you on that philosophy is a very wide subject. The philosophy I believe is being referred to here is philosophy about the essence of Allah, or over the existance of Allah. For example look at these ahadith from Kitab at-Tawheed of Sheikh as-Saduq:

1 - أبي رحمه الله قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله، قال: حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن الحسن بن محبوب، عن علي بن رئاب، عن أبي بصير، قال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: تكلموا في خلق الله ولا تكلموا في الله فإن الكلام في الله لا يزيد إلا تحيرا.

Abi Rahmat Allah said: From Sa'ad bin Abdillah, from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa, frm Hassan bin Mahboub, from Ali bin Ra'ab, from Abi Baseer who said: Abi Ja'far (as) said: Speak on the creation of Allah and do not speak about Allah for speech (kalam) on Allah does not provide except confusion.

وبهذا الاسناد، عن أبي بصير، قال: قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: يهلك أصحاب الكلام، وينجو المسلمون إن المسلمين هم النجباء 

And with this isnad, from Abi Baseer, said: Said Abu Abdullah (as): “People of kalam (theology/philosophy) would perish, and the obedient/submitters(muslims) would be safe, indeed the obedient (muslims) they are of high character.”

What do you derive from the word perish?. Is it regarding hell or causing insanity or loss of faith?. I'd say the narration is just warning the commoners not to indulge in something that requires a type of intelligentsia and praising the good sheep.

I am awaiting the names of the those deviant sufis. Thanks

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51 minutes ago, monad said:

What do you derive from the word perish?. Is it regarding hell or causing insanity or loss of faith?.

It's been used in the quran to describe dying on disbelief (so going to hell).

 [Remember] when you were on the near side of the valley, and they were on the farther side, and the caravan was lower [in position] than you. If you had made an appointment [to meet], you would have missed the appointment. But [it was] so that Allah might accomplish a matter already destined - that those who perished [through disbelief] would perish upon evidence and those who lived [in faith] would live upon evidence; and indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing. (Quran 8:42)

58 minutes ago, monad said:

I am awaiting the names of the those deviant sufis.

Hasan al-Basri is one. There are actually hadith where the Imams (as) spoke about him.

https://almerja.com/reading.php?idm=57169 (arabic, ) 

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5 hours ago, power said:

Sufism has nothing to do with Shiasim thats all i'm saying.

To me Islam , shiasm and sofism is one. I have to answer my belief not you.

Be at ease 

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5 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

I agree with you on that philosophy is a very wide subject. The philosophy I believe is being referred to here is philosophy about the essence of Allah, or over the existance of Allah. For example look at these ahadith from Kitab at-Tawheed of Sheikh as-Saduq:

1 - أبي رحمه الله قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله، قال: حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن الحسن بن محبوب، عن علي بن رئاب، عن أبي بصير، قال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: تكلموا في خلق الله ولا تكلموا في الله فإن الكلام في الله لا يزيد إلا تحيرا.

Abi Rahmat Allah said: From Sa'ad bin Abdillah, from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa, frm Hassan bin Mahboub, from Ali bin Ra'ab, from Abi Baseer who said: Abi Ja'far (as) said: Speak on the creation of Allah and do not speak about Allah for speech (kalam) on Allah does not provide except confusion.

وبهذا الاسناد، عن أبي بصير، قال: قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: يهلك أصحاب الكلام، وينجو المسلمون إن المسلمين هم النجباء 

And with this isnad, from Abi Baseer, said: Said Abu Abdullah (as): “People of kalam (theology/philosophy) would perish, and the obedient/submitters(muslims) would be safe, indeed the obedient (muslims) they are of high character.”

Judaism promotes good character, worship and belief in monotheism. Should I call myself a Shia Jew?

Mr.I will be resurrected according my beliefs and actions. And not by  labell of being Shia, Sunni or sofi or jew. Name and labell have no meaning. 

So I follow the principles Islam and try to act on it through love and not as burden as taught by Ahlul-Bayt as and sofis and arifs and true Shias. 

It hardly matters what you and your yasir Alhabib says. 

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Mr.I will be resurrected according my beliefs and actions. And not by  labell of being Shia, Sunni or sofi or jew. Name and labell have no meaning. 

Well, people will be punished for denying Wilayah of Ali (as), no? Some prominent scholars said that one who rejects the Imams (as)'s actions are invalid. It's not just actions, its if your belief in Islam is correct, and if you followed Islam.

1 hour ago, islam25 said:

So I follow the principles Islam and try to act on it through love and not as burden as taught by Ahlul-Bayt as and sofis and arifs and true Shias. 

What are the principles of Islam? Of course there is a spiritual element of Islam, as we read in Sahifa Sajjadiyya, etc..... though this is different from what Sufis believe (and what Ibn Arabi believed).

1 hour ago, islam25 said:

It hardly matters what you and your yasir Alhabib says. 

"my" Yasser al-Habib has some very good arguments.... have you ever bothered to watch his lectures?

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On 10/28/2017 at 6:57 PM, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Ayatollah Muhaqqiq Muhammad Jamil Hammoud al-Amili 

  السؤال هو ما يلي: ما هو العرفان الحرام وما هي الفلسفة الحرام ؟

Question: What is Haram spirituality and Haram philosophy?

بسمه تعالى

In the name of the Exalted

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Assalamu Alaikom wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

   الجواب: المحرَّم من العرفان والفلسفة هو ما كان في مقابل منهج أهل البيت (سلام الله عليهم)، والمأخوذ من مدارس الصوفية للمخالفين والشيعة المائلين إليهم، وكذلك الحال بالنسبة إلى الفلسفة، فكل فلسفة تنطوي على التفرد بحكم العقل في مقابل النصوص الأخبارية الشريفة أو تأويلها بما يتعارض مع الكتاب والأخبار الشريفة، فهي ضلال وكفر وزندقة، وصاحبها من أهل النار.. والسلام.

The forbidden things from spirituality and philosophy is what is opposite to the path of Ahlulbayt (as), and what is taken from from the Sufi sect of the opposition (mukhalifeen, i.e. sunnis) or those shias fond towards them, and this is also the situation with philosophy. All philosophy involves singularity by reason, which is against the reports in our texts (I believe he's referring to hadith) or contrary to our books and reports (hadith), and this is misguidance, disbelief and heresy, and its companions are from the people of hell... Wasalam.

http://www.aletra.org/subject.php?id=1474

@islam25 this fatwa summarizes what is haram in spirituality and what is halal. 

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1 hour ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

@islam25 this fatwa summarizes what is haram in spirituality and what is halal. 

Mr.There is only one spirituality taught by quran and imam Ali. There is nothing like Haram spirituality. 

Regarding Haram it's already specified by shariah Haram things. 

Do Ayatullah Muhaqqiq has written any book on  irfan and spirituality and how to achieve the nearness of Allah. 

And who was his spiritual mentor. 

Again spirituality nothing but loving Allah the most and doing  actions in love for Allah and refraining from all sins so that ones heart is occupied by non but Allah. 

Its the teachings of Quran and Ahlebayt as. And practised by Arifs and sofis.  

 

Edited by islam25

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8 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

You posted the same thing that you posted on page 1. This is a duplicate on page 6. 

Yes I know I posted it. I'm just trying to make a point that spirituality isn't haram lol, its just what is contrary to the Ahlulbayt (as), and Sufism is just that.

7 hours ago, islam25 said:

Mr.There is only one spirituality taught by quran and imam Ali. There is nothing like Haram spirituality. 

Regarding Haram it's already specified by shariah Haram things. 

So you reject all ahadith and fatwa's of all scholars who disagree with you, then what are we supposed to discuss lol.

7 hours ago, islam25 said:

Do Ayatullah Muhaqqiq has written any book on  irfan and spirituality and how to achieve the nearness of Allah. 

And who was his spiritual mentor. 

What is a spiritual mentor.

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8 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Yes I know I posted it. I'm just trying to make a point that spirituality isn't haram lol, its just what is contrary to the Ahlulbayt (as), and Sufism is just that.

So you reject all ahadith and fatwa's of all scholars who disagree with you, then what are we supposed to discuss lol.

What is a spiritual mentor.

I do not reject. But I reject ur understanding. 

Why should i accept futwa of any mujtahids if he condems remembering of Allah and doing worship  through love for Allah. 

Because all imams teach worship Allah out of love. So same Arifs or sofis says. 

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

I do not reject. But I reject ur understanding. 

Why should i accept futwa of any mujtahids if he condems remembering of Allah and doing worship  through love for Allah. 

Because all imams teach worship Allah out of love. So same Arifs or sofis says. 

He did not say do not remember Allah. He didn't say don't worship Allah.

He said Whatever is taken from the Sufi sect of the opposition (sunnis).

Your spirituality should be from Quran and Ahlulbayt (as). Why would you want anything else?

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11 hours ago, islam25 said:

To me Islam , shiasm and sofism is one. I have to answer my belief not you.

Be at ease 

There is no  compulsion in Islam, therefore you are free to believe whatever you want. With that said, Shia scholars do not associate Shia Islam with the cult of Sufism,  Sufism cannot differentiate between haq and batil then you are surly misguided.

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7 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Yes I know I posted it. I'm just trying to make a point that spirituality isn't haram lol, its just what is contrary to the Ahlulbayt (as), and Sufism is just that.

If you posted the same thing on page 1 and repeated it on page 6, then this topic is going in circles. Nothing new to say? 

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