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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Hmm, well, I do not know about anyone and do not know what they are, but mostly Sufis twist his words and may be that is why, I am against wrong interpretation. Since, you have praised so much about Ibne Arabi and I have read his quote about nature of Satan, it led me to conclude that he possessed wisdom. So, what you heard about my criticism is actually criticism to anti-Islamic approaches and not to persons. 

Why should khomine ra would praise ibne Arabi most. 

And even he said to West bring your expert genius to qum  to read ibne Arabi. Then  after reading for years under tutor  you will come to know if Allah wills. 

Most people like us after reading few paragraphs suddenly give fatwa against ibne Arabi or others. 

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15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Hmm, well, I do not know about anyone and do not know what they are, but mostly Sufis twist his words and may be that is why, I am against wrong interpretation. Since, you have praised so much about Ibne Arabi and I have read his quote about nature of Satan, it led me to conclude that he possessed wisdom. So, what you heard about my criticism is actually criticism to anti-Islamic approaches and not to persons. 

Just read paragraph where khomine ra invites Russia to Islam through ibne Arabi. 

"I won’t tire you further by mentioning the works of mystics, in particular Muhyī’d-Dīn ibn al-‘Arabī(18). If you wish to make yourself acquainted with the doctrines of this celebrated mystic, send a number of your brilliant scholars, who are well-versed in this field, to Qum(19) so that, by reliance on God, they may, after a couple of years, glimpse the depth of the delicate stages of gnosis(20), which will be impossible for them to acquire without making such a journey."

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

Just read paragraph where khomine ra invites Russia to Islam through ibne Arabi. 

"I won’t tire you further by mentioning the works of mystics, in particular Muhyī’d-Dīn ibn al-‘Arabī(18). If you wish to make yourself acquainted with the doctrines of this celebrated mystic, send a number of your brilliant scholars, who are well-versed in this field, to Qum(19) so that, by reliance on God, they may, after a couple of years, glimpse the depth of the delicate stages of gnosis(20), which will be impossible for them to acquire without making such a journey."

As I said, that if Ayotullah wrote it, It means that his teachings was misunderstood as today the teachings of Ayotullah Khomein and Ayotullah Bahjat are misinterpreted. So, in reality, they were victims of that conspiracy and I do not take them as Sufis but Muslims and student of Irfan. 

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1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

As I said, that if Ayotullah wrote it, It means that his teachings was misunderstood as today the teachings of Ayotullah Khomein and Ayotullah Bahjat are misinterpreted. So, in reality, they were victims of that conspiracy and I do not take them as Sufis but Muslims and student of Irfan. 

That is OK. 

They were not victims of conspiracy. Rather than irfan and sofism is complex and elusive that every ordinary person would call it shrik or polytheism or deviation. 

Even today you can see some mujtahids like Sadiq shirazi or yasir al habib talking bad. 

Why they do Allah knows best. 

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23 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

@Sindbad05 this gave me a few good laughs 

 

Brother, I disassociate with this person. However, who gave him right to call a person as Mulhid about whom he is not known. Has not many of the people claimed that Prophet PBUHHP visited them in dream and some were also infidels ? right....

There are many Alim who told that Imam Ali a.s read Surah Fatiha in their ear and their vision became good and for Ayotullah Khoei it is said that Imam Ali a.s recited Bismillah and his effect become good.

So, if Prophet PBUHHP gave him book which meant in reality that he could derive good things in future through his intellect, then how dare a person like this Allahayari claim that he knows that such dream never existed. Does he claim to be Alim of Ghaib ? If it is then, it is a great polytheism. 

What Ibn-e-Arabi said, Allah knows about him and I do not have to comment about personal experience for which I have no knowledge except for the person who is known as liar. 

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13 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That is OK. 

They were not victims of conspiracy. Rather than irfan and sofism is complex and elusive that every ordinary person would call it shrik or polytheism or deviation. 

Even today you can see some mujtahids like Sadiq shirazi or yasir al habib talking bad. 

Why they do Allah knows best. 

I have nothing to do with terms man. Allah made us Muslim, we are Muslim lolz. No further terms should be applied. 

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32 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Why should I listen to this liar ? 

he is quoting Khomeini's book, "Ta'lighat 'ala Sharh Fusus al-Hikam." He's not saying this from himself, he's reading straight from Khomeini's book.

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19 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

@Mansur Bakhtiari as for tanzeel what Imam Khomeini said....revelation has been descended upon not only Prophets but also upon animals too such as honey Bee and the whale who swallowed Hazrat Yunus. 

Wasallam.

So the book of Ibn Arabi is Tanzeel (revelation) from Allah, just like the Quran is a Tanzeel from Allah?

Audhu Billah

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1 minute ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

he is quoting Khomeini's book, "Ta'lighat 'ala Sharh Fusus al-Hikam." He's not saying this from himself, he's reading straight from Khomeini's book.

So, what can we expect from a liar bro....That is what they do...If he says or does not says, it does not matter.....The only thing matters is what Ibne Arabi has said and that is what are his explanations...No one see dreams and other as Miraculous things but intellectual approach and description of beliefs....these are apparent things to be reckoned. 

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2 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

So the book of Ibn Arabi is Tanzeel (revelation) from Allah, just like the Quran is a Tanzeel from Allah?

Audhu Billah

No, but what Wisdom he has wrote in his book, is from Allah for he is the final source of Wisdom and anything which is not wisdom is not from Allah but from ignorance. 

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4 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

So the book of Ibn Arabi is Tanzeel (revelation) from Allah, just like the Quran is a Tanzeel from Allah?

Audhu Billah

I think, you did not listened to what you shared....and that is why you misunderstood entirely about Tanzeel. lolz 

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

No, but what Wisdom he has wrote in his book, is from Allah for he is the final source of Wisdom and anything which is not wisdom is not from Allah but from ignorance. 

Tanzeel means revelation from Allah. Khomeini said in the book that it is not a Ta'beer (expression), because the dream of Ibn Arabi was that the Prophet (saw) told him to preach to the people with his book. So Khomeini said this is not Ta'beer, because it came from the Nabi (saw), and if the Nabi (saw) said it, then it means that this is a Tanzeel (revelation) from Allah. 

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2 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Tanzeel means revelation from Allah. Khomeini said in the book that it is not a Ta'beer (expression), because the dream of Ibn Arabi was that the Prophet (saw) told him to preach to the people with his book. So Khomeini said this is not Ta'beer, because it came from the Nabi (saw), and if the Nabi (saw) said it, then it means that this is a Tanzeel (revelation) from Allah. 

So what is wrong in it.

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

So what is wrong in it.

That Khomeini believed that Ibn Arabi recieved divine revelation and knowledge of the unseen from Allah.

And in the same divine book he also says Firaun was Muslim...

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4 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

That Khomeini believed that Ibn Arabi recieved divine revelation and knowledge of the unseen from Allah.

And in the same divine book he also says Firaun was Muslim...

Why not. 

What is mean of kashf. It is devine revelation.

Even quran says one who belives and firm on it angles desend on them. 

Even quran says honey relieves revelation. Why can't human. 

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25 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I think, you did not listened to what you shared....and that is why you misunderstood entirely about Tanzeel. lolz 

Tanzeel means revelation lol.

7 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Even quran says honey relieves revelation. Why can't human. 

https://quran.com/16/68-69

The "revelation" in this verse is not Tanzeel. It says awha, which is derived from wahy, which means inspired. The Quran is not inspired (wahy), it is Tanzeel. The bees didn't receive their own Quran, that's not what Allah says in this verse. It means that Allah basically put this fitra into the bee to, as the verse says, " "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct."

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3 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Tanzeel means revelation lol.

https://quran.com/16/68-69

The "revelation" in this verse is not Tanzeel. It says awha, which is derived from wahy, which means inspired. The Quran is not inspired (wahy), it is Tanzeel. The bees didn't receive their own Quran, that's not what Allah says in this verse. It means that Allah basically put this fitra into the bee to, as the verse says, " "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct."

Even if it means revelation what is wrong in it. 

What is meaning of revelation.?

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8 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Tanzeel means revelation lol.

https://quran.com/16/68-69

The "revelation" in this verse is not Tanzeel. It says awha, which is derived from wahy, which means inspired. The Quran is not inspired (wahy), it is Tanzeel. The bees didn't receive their own Quran, that's not what Allah says in this verse. It means that Allah basically put this fitra into the bee to, as the verse says, " "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct."

Again Allah revealed quran to Prophet saww. And from Prophet to us. 

So Allah revealed something to Prophet saww. That Prophet saww taught to ibne Arabi. 

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4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Even if it means revelation what is wrong in it. 

What is meaning of revelation.?

What I meant is that this verse is talking about Allah creating the bees, not revealing knowledge of the unseen to them lol.

Just now, islam25 said:

Again Allah revealed quran to Prophet saww. And from Prophet to us. 

So Allah revealed something to Prophet saww. That Prophet saww taught to ibne Arabi. 

Ibn Arabi's beliefs contradict the Quran and Shiism.

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3 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

What I meant is that this verse is talking about Allah creating the bees, not revealing knowledge of the unseen to them lol.

Ibn Arabi's beliefs contradict the Quran and Shiism.

If ibne Arabi teaching was against quran and shiaism. Then why it would be taught in qum. 

Why would khomine or other mujtahids taught it students. 

In other words it is we who do not understand it.

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Just now, islam25 said:

If ibne Arabi teaching was against quran and shiaism. Then why it would be taught in qum. 

Why would khomine or other mujtahids taught it students. 

In other words it is we who do not understand it.

If Imam Ali (as) was the rightful caliph, why would the sahaba not hold that opinion? 

Why would the majority of Muslims reject this?

 

See how this sort of thinking is flawed? We can't assume just because some maraji teach it, this means that Islam is in accordance with it. Ayatollah Sadeq Shirazi, Ayatollah Sadiq Rouhani, Ayatollah Hammoud al-Amili, Sheikh Ishaq al Fayyadh.... these are all prominent scholars who are against this.

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