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Guest Muslim25
9 hours ago, Zeeshan Haider16 said:

Is suffism allowed in shiism??

(keeping shebaaz qalandar and rabia basri qalander in mind) ( i mean theres nothing wrong with it) if their is then plz dictate??

What do you mean by is sofism allowed in shiasm.

As if two are different and mutually exclusive. Both sofism or shiasm is following Islam to achieve proximity of Allah. 

If following sofism means introducing new behavior and rituals then we should be cautious and refrain from it.

Otherwise following the teachings of true sofis and sofism is real Islam. Real sofism is following Islam with pure heart and intention. And it's what Islam teaches. 

To my understanding followinh Islamic principles with pure love and servitude to Allah is called sofism or irfan. And Rabia basri and Sahbaaz qalander were great sofis and arifs 

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Guest Muslim25
1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

They were pure Momin and Arifeen. Not Sufis.....

Brother grow up. True sofis and Arifs are same. 

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Ayatollah Muhaqqiq Muhammad Jamil Hammoud al-Amili 

  السؤال هو ما يلي: ما هو العرفان الحرام وما هي الفلسفة الحرام ؟

Question: What is Haram spirituality and Haram philosophy?

بسمه تعالى

In the name of the Exalted

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Assalamu Alaikom wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

   الجواب: المحرَّم من العرفان والفلسفة هو ما كان في مقابل منهج أهل البيت (سلام الله عليهم)، والمأخوذ من مدارس الصوفية للمخالفين والشيعة المائلين إليهم، وكذلك الحال بالنسبة إلى الفلسفة، فكل فلسفة تنطوي على التفرد بحكم العقل في مقابل النصوص الأخبارية الشريفة أو تأويلها بما يتعارض مع الكتاب والأخبار الشريفة، فهي ضلال وكفر وزندقة، وصاحبها من أهل النار.. والسلام.

The forbidden things from spirituality and philosophy is what is opposite to the path of Ahlulbayt (as), and what is taken from from the Sufi sect of the opposition (mukhalifeen, i.e. sunnis) or those shias fond towards them, and this is also the situation with philosophy. All philosophy involves singularity by reason, which is against the reports in our texts (I believe he's referring to hadith) or contrary to our books and reports (hadith), and this is misguidance, disbelief and heresy, and its companions are from the people of hell... Wasalam.

http://www.aletra.org/subject.php?id=1474

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Mustadrak Safinat al-Bihar by Sheikh Ali ash-Shahroudi
فلسف: ذم الفلسفة قال مولانا الصادق صلوات الله عليه في رواية توحيد المفضل: فتبا وتعسا لمنتحلي الفلسفة - الخ (1).
وقال مولانا الحسن العسكري صلوات لله عليه لأبي هاشم الجعفري في رواية شريفة: علماؤهم شرار خلق الله على وجه الأرض، لأنهم يميلون إلى الفلسفة والتصوف 
Philosophy: Our master as-Sadiq (as) said in the Narration of Tawheed of al-Mufaddal (Tradition of Mufaddal): "Destruction, misery and disappointment upon those who practice philosophy". And our master Hassan al-Askari (as) said to Abi Hashim al-Ja'fari in a narration: "Their scholars are the worst of Allah's creation on the earth, for they incline to philosophy and Sufism.
 

Makes me question the "Shia Sufis" we have on this website and in our mosques lol
Edited by Mansur Bakhtiari

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8 hours ago, Zeeshan Haider16 said:

Is suffism allowed in shiism??

(keeping shebaaz qalandar and rabia basri qalander in mind) ( i mean theres nothing wrong with it) if their is then plz dictate??

Sofism and shiasm is same. You can follow it. But be confirm that you are not following pseud sofism. 

Sahbaaz qalandar and rabia basri ra were great arifs. 

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7 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

I wonder why you'd need some sort of fake spirituality mixed in with the thaqalayn...

Why not stick to the teachings of islam?

Sofism is real Islam. As taught by MOHHAMAD saw and Ahlebayt as. So real Shia is a true sofi. 

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18 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Sofism is real Islam. As taught by MOHHAMAD saw and Ahlebayt as. So real Shia is a true sofi. 

 

3 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:
Mustadrak Safinat al-Bihar by Sheikh Ali ash-Shahroudi
فلسف: ذم الفلسفة قال مولانا الصادق صلوات الله عليه في رواية توحيد المفضل: فتبا وتعسا لمنتحلي الفلسفة - الخ (1).
وقال مولانا الحسن العسكري صلوات لله عليه لأبي هاشم الجعفري في رواية شريفة: علماؤهم شرار خلق الله على وجه الأرض، لأنهم يميلون إلى الفلسفة والتصوف 
Philosophy: Our master as-Sadiq (as) said in the Narration of Tawheed of al-Mufaddal (Tradition of Mufaddal): "Destruction, misery and disappointment upon those who practice philosophy". And our master Hassan al-Askari (as) said to Abi Hashim al-Ja'fari in a narration: "Their scholars are the worst of Allah's creation on the earth, for they incline to philosophy and Sufism.

Do you have any hadiths supporting Sufi practices and beliefs?

 

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47 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Do you have any hadiths supporting Sufi practices and beliefs?

Mrs what is the authenticity of above narration. You should know in hawaza they teach philosophy. Do not they know philosophy is against Islam. Or you have misunderstood it.

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Just now, islam25 said:

Mr what is the authenticity of above narration. 

The tradition of Mufaddal bin Umar is a really well known one, just google it lol. You can buy it off Amazon.

1 minute ago, islam25 said:

You should know in hawaza they teach philosophy. Do not they know philosophy is against Islam.

 

4 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:
 

In this video Sheikh al-Fayyadh condemns those who teach irfan/philosophy in the hawaza. 

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15 hours ago, Hassan- said:

If it contradicts the teachings of the Quran or ahlulbayt (as) then it is not allowed.

 

14 hours ago, power said:

Sufism is amalgamation are various concepts including Shiism, they are more inclined towards Sunni Islam. Therefore i would be  very cautious towards  them.

 

13 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

They were pure Momin and Arifeen. Not Sufis.....

 

11 hours ago, Guest Muslim25 said:

What do you mean by is sofism allowed in shiasm.

As if two are different and mutually exclusive. Both sofism or shiasm is following Islam to achieve proximity of Allah. 

If following sofism means introducing new behavior and rituals then we should be cautious and refrain from it.

Otherwise following the teachings of true sofis and sofism is real Islam. Real sofism is following Islam with pure heart and intention. And it's what Islam teaches. 

To my understanding followinh Islamic principles with pure love and servitude to Allah is called sofism or irfan. And Rabia basri and Sahbaaz qalander were great sofis and arifs 

well alright but they both the qalanders isolated from the worldly matters and searched for the deep mystic knowledge of Quran.

Bu Ali Qalander even asked Allah for making him Imam Ali a.s after 36 years of chilla( retreat) ,but instead he was given the fragnance of Imam Ali a.s (the name).

well mysticism is to search for islams mystical and hidden knowledge. For instance ; When Hazrat Ali was asked whether he has seen Allah .He responded "Yes, by the inward eyes of his heart."  Similarly Allah has quoted in Quran that " Allah is near than a person than his Artery" 

A normal man cannot comprehend these deep meaning statements.

6 hours ago, islam25 said:

Arif and sofis are both same.

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3 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

The tradition of Mufaddal bin Umar is a really well known one, just google it lol. You can buy it off Amazon.

 

In this video Sheikh al-Fayyadh condemns those who teach irfan/philosophy in the hawaza. 

How come he has authority to condemn the teaching of philosophy and irfan. Let him condemn but that has no value for those who want to learn it. 

Do you think those who teach are doing it against Islam. Why should the mujtahids in qum teach something that is against Islam. 

To be polite this mujtahid who condemns it actually he himself is not extensively veresed with teachings of islam. 

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7 hours ago, islam25 said:

Arif and sofis are both same. 

Bro, there are million of definition of Sufis and majority of them consider Sufism to be an entirely separate religious doctrine which has nothing to do with Islam. So, I do not attribute to Lal Qalandar as Sufis but as Arif which is the word used by our Imams and Sufi was not used by them. Mystic knowledge is part of a Momin's knowledge. Before me, they were complete Momineen, who have:

1. Knowledge of Irfan which made them firm into religion.

2. Knowledge of Shariah through which they attained nearness to Allah AWJ. 

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12 hours ago, Guest Muslim25 said:

Brother grow up. True sofis and Arifs are same. 

I am grown up brother lolz. My Imams never used word of Sufi for their followers or for themselves. They used word Arifs. So, not same in the world, majority of Sufis claimants are perverts, they never distinguish between creator and creation. Sorry to say they are perverts. 

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7 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I am grown up brother lolz. My Imams never used word of Sufi for their followers or for themselves. They used word Arifs. So, not same in the world, majority of Sufis claimants are perverts, they never distinguish between creator and creation. Sorry to say they are perverts. 

Unfortunately you get misled by terms. It hardly matters you call them sofis or Arifs or mystics. Did any arif claim he is arif. It is not me rather shia arifs and sofis have same principle and path and goals while teaching. You oftently get references quoting the sofis in books of shia arifs. Now who you and me are to oppose it.you go and challenge shia arifs who give references from sofis. 

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11 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Unfortunately you get misled by terms. It hardly matters you call them sofis or Arifs or mystics. Did any arif claim he is arif. It is not me rather shia arifs and sofis have same principle and path and goals while teaching. You oftently get references quoting the sofis in books of shia arifs. Now who you and me are to oppose it.you go and challenge shia arifs who give references from sofis. 

Well, if Shia student of irfan such as Mulla Sadra refers to Ibn Arabi, then it is just for educational purpose and not for claiming that I am sufi too. In Islam, there is no other term except Momin and Muslim and Munafiq and Kafir. All have an spiritual side such as Momin and Muslim believes in Marifah and thus are known by the student of Irfan, while Munafiq and Kafir are students of ignorance and are associated with it. 

As you have claimed yourself that the saints did not call themselves Arifs but they did not reject either that they are students of irfan. However, none of them have said I am student of Sufism and neither claimed that they are Sufis. I am speaking about shia Islam. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Well, if Shia student of irfan such as Mulla Sadra refers to Ibn Arabi, then it is just for educational purpose and not for claiming that I am sufi too. In Islam, there is no other term except Momin and Muslim and Munafiq and Kafir. All have an spiritual side such as Momin and Muslim believes in Marifah and thus are known by the student of Irfan, while Munafiq and Kafir are students of ignorance and are associated with it. 

As you have claimed yourself that the saints did not call themselves Arifs but they did not reject either that they are students of irfan. However, none of them have said I am student of Sufism and neither claimed that they are Sufis. I am speaking about shia Islam. 

Exactly. They taught and give references from those whom muslim world beloved to be sofis like Saharwardi ra, ibn Arabic ,Farabi, Avecina, Ba yazeed bastami, Abdullah Ansari. All above are whom muslim world belives to sofis and Arifs. And they all ways used terms to denote a fact that common in sofi world. In other words they all followed the same principle that common in sofi or irfan to get proximity to Allah. So why should I deny. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

As you have claimed yourself that the saints did not call themselves Arifs but they did not reject either that they are students of irfan. However, none of them have said I am student of Sufism and neither claimed that they are Sufis. I am speaking about shia Islam. 

That is what I say. They hardly matters weather you call them arifs are not neither they. But there teaching and visions that they have said is same what all sofis say. They praised sofis .Did ever heared Arifs amongst shia criticising sofis. Never. Instead they praise them and used there books to learn and teach others. 

At end what ever sofis teach is what Ahlebayt as has taught. But unfortunately most shias confined it superficially. But Arifs and sofis followed it in letter and sprit and with  loving heart. 

Its What differtiates sofi /arifs from common Muslims. 

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10 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That is what I say. They hardly matters weather you call them arifs are not neither they. But there teaching and visions that they have said is same what all sofis say. They praised sofis .Did ever heared Arifs amongst shia criticising sofis. Never. Instead they praise them and used there books to learn and teach others. 

At end what ever sofis teach is what Ahlebayt as has taught. But unfortunately most shias confined it superficially. But Arifs and sofis followed it in letter and sprit and with  loving heart. 

Its What differtiates sofi /arifs from common Muslims. 

Listen, non among the visionaries criticized anyone belonging to any faith. However, they criticized core teachings such as that of those Sufis who claimed that Creator and creation is same. So, the Arifeen through their teachings told them that they are wrong and Creator is different from Creation. Tell me, is not the doctrine which says that Creation and creator are same is called Sufism but the teachers of Irfan whom we call Arifeen detest such idea. Before them such ideology is polytheism and not Islam. That is long story short. 

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