Jump to content

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Dear brothers and sisters, assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

This is my first post here. I am glad to join "ShiaChat" and I hope this forum will help me learn and understand more about the teachings of the Noble Prophet and his ahlul-bayt, peace be upon them.

My first question pertains to homosexuality. My question is not whether or not homosexual acts are haram. I am aware that homosexual acts are unambiguously forbidden in Islam; as the Quran and the ahadith (from both Sunni and Shia sources) condemn homosexual acts in very clear terms. My question is: As Muslims, and more particularly as Shia Muslims, how should we understand homosexuality?

Scientific research shows that people who are attracted to the same sex develop their orientation before their born. In other words, homosexuality (I am talking about the tendency and the inclination, and not the act) is not a choice, but a destiny. Is science right in saying this? If science isn't right, where is the counter-evidence?

If science is right, and homosexuality is indeed a sexual orientation, why is it not treated as such in our sacred books? My impression is that the Quran and the ahadith mention sodomy as a sinful action but make no reference to homosexuality as a sexual orientation or a complete identity. The whole concept of sexual orientation seems to absent from our scriptures and religious literature.

Furthermore, if we accept the scientific research (which we must accept unless conclusive counter-evidence is provided), how does this cohere with God's Justice and Mercy? Why would Allah, who is both Merciful and Just, place homosexual desires in the hearts of some of His servants; and then punish them for acting on those desires, and condemn them to a loveless life? By contrast, sexual desire directed towards the opposite sex can be halalified much more easily (through permanent marriages, and in the context of Shia Islam, temporary marriages).

Lastly, in your opinion, what would be the best way to explain the Islamic stance on homosexuality, and the reason acts of sodomy were made haram, to a non-Muslim and non-religious person, on purely rational grounds and without reference to scripture?

Many thanks for reading. I'll await your replies. JazakumuLlahu khayran.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

Dear brothers and sisters, assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

Wa alaikum as-salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

This is my first post here. I am glad to join "ShiaChat" and I hope this forum will help me learn and understand more about the teachings of the Noble Prophet and his ahlul-bayt, peace be upon them.

Welcome to ShiaChat!

5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

My first question pertains to homosexuality. My question is not whether or not homosexual acts are haram. I am aware that homosexual acts are unambiguously forbidden in Islam; as the Quran and the ahadith (from both Sunni and Shia sources) condemn homosexual acts in very clear terms. My question is: As Muslims, and more particularly as Shia Muslims, how should we understand homosexuality?

Scientific research shows that people who are attracted to the same sex develop their orientation before their born. In other words, homosexuality (I am talking about the tendency and the inclination, and not the act) is not a choice, but a destiny. Is science right in saying this? If science isn't right, where is the counter-evidence?

What sources are you using that tell you that science is saying this? I think you'll find that science is nowhere near as unambiguous about the role biology plays in determining sexual orientation as you seem to think. Certainly, there is a general consensus that biology plays a role, but to what extent, and how exactly it plays a role is not at all clear.

5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

If science is right, and homosexuality is indeed a sexual orientation, why is it not treated as such in our sacred books? My impression is that the Quran and the ahadith mention sodomy as a sinful action but make no reference to homosexuality as a sexual orientation or a complete identity. The whole concept of sexual orientation seems to absent from our scriptures and religious literature.

The whole concept of an identity centred around a person's sexual preferences is a very recent phenomenon. Why should religious literature mention this man-made concept?

5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

Furthermore, if we accept the scientific research (which we must accept unless conclusive counter-evidence is provided),

I don't think we 'must' accept scientific research unless conclusive counter-evidence is provided, for a number of reasons. Firstly, a lot of things that get published in scientific journals are based on dubious studies. There is so much pressure on academics to publish new results that they often fudge the data. When you factor in the social and political biases surrounding a topic such as homosexuality that becomes even more likely. Secondly, often it takes time for counter-evidence to come to light, so if you keep changing your views based on what recent studies show, then you will be in a constant state of flux. Obviously, solid and settled scientific evidence needs to be taken into account, but you can't keep changing your religious views based on recent studies that are open to all kinds of biases.

Now, like I said, I don't believe that in this case, the purported scientific studies even are that clear.

5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

how does this cohere with God's Justice and Mercy? Why would Allah, who is both Merciful and Just, place homosexual desires in the hearts of some of His servants; and then punish them for acting on those desires, and condemn them to a loveless life?

You could just as well ask the same question of people born with certain severe physical or mental abnormalities who have very little chance of being able to get married. Or people born into cultures where forced marriages are commonplace. It's unfortunate, but people have different challenges in this life. The important thing is to remember that it's the next life that is most important, not this one. But if we decide to forget about the next life, then of course nothing makes any sense any more.

This whole concept of the most important thing in life being romantic love also needs to be challenged. Most people in human history probably had romantically loveless lives, but there are plenty of other forms of love and happiness.

5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

By contrast, sexual desire directed towards the opposite sex can be halalified much more easily (through permanent marriages, and in the context of Shia Islam, temporary marriages).

Yes, but the two are not equal. Sexual desire between two people of the opposite sex is natural, and produces life as a result. Men and women are made in a compatible way for this purpose, unlike two men or two women. Not to mention that homosexuality tends to lead to disease. It is only through artificial means such as condoms and drugs that this disease is controlled, but even then there are still very high rates of STDs among the homosexual population.

5 hours ago, LeoDei said:

Lastly, in your opinion, what would be the best way to explain the Islamic stance on homosexuality, and the reason acts of sodomy were made haram, to a non-Muslim and non-religious person, on purely rational grounds and without reference to scripture?

What would the purpose of this be? How can you explain the reason for something when you start the discussion by pretending the principle reason doesn't exist? Reasons can be given as to why homosexual acts are not a good idea, but we now live in a society where the guiding principle is to do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn't directly harm anyone else. As such, there is no argument you can give against homosexuality, or transgenderism. However, there is no argument against incest either. So when society gets round to ironing out that inconsistency and decides to accept it, are we going to start discussing that as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, LeoDei said:

Scientific research shows that people who are attracted to the same sex develop their orientation before their born. In other words, homosexuality (I am talking about the tendency and the inclination, and not the act) is not a choice, but a destiny. Is science right in saying this? If science isn't right, where is the counter-evidence?

I think this is disputed to say the least. Also think about it, when you were say 5 or 6, who was interested in any gender? the boys were playing football and the girls arguing :)

Its only after puberty these desires become apparent. I find it hard to accept that the environmental factors of childhood have no part to play. 

However, lets put all that aside, and assume your right. Lets imagine a girl is genetically such that she is attracted to women.  Does she have to act on that? Does she have to live that way? 

What if it turns out lying or selfishness is also genetic. Now what do we say? That its ok because they are inclined to it?

I think though the issue oh homosexuality does challenge our generation and we need to come up with a rational discussion that is both true to our beliefs, but also fair to those who are facing these issues. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salam brother. i will give you two answers.

1. people claiming that homosexuality is natural or in their genes, is no different that someone claiming they have a born alcoholic. that was the simple answer. to elaborate, science hasnt yet proven that homosexuality is something natural. and i believe it never will. on the contrary, i can show you research that homosexuals can lead a pretty normal heterosexual life if they wanted to. this is just them following their desires, taking part of the religion and rejecting some part. trying to justify their sins. even the non religious people are just following the herd and saying all pro homo things to go with the flow.

2. suppose science does prove it. 2 ways we can view it. 1. science is wrong. which is very much possible. or 2. if someone sticks to science, even though they shouldnt, then i say, okay. it is natural. so? even normal sexual desires are natural. but are we just allowed to follow them any way? no. we need to get married and only then can we fulfill our desires. and then, if that person is a muslim, i would say that Allah swt says in the quran that he doesnt burden a soul more than it can bear. so, the only reason a certain person has these desires naturally is because that certain person is the only one who has the ability to overcome this desire, which is why Allah swt tested him with this. simple as that. hope this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • I don't know, it is something that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى did not made obligatory for man. Mans have their own laws and so do the Womans.
    • Guest ????
      Why is it not farz on men? 
    • Some men do it voluntary to cover their hair out of piety, even when it is not necessary for them to wear it. It is not confused Sister, and He do say you need to cover your hair clearly. He clearly in verse make it obligatory to cover the hair but also the chest, because there used to be women who only covered their hair and not chest. to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands... Quran 24:31 Many people always focus on Physical aspect on Hijab, when the spiritual is the most important. We need to obey Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى if we claim ourselves to be Muslim in every commands He give us, if we do not do that, then we are obeying Shaytan and Shaytan will lead us to wrong path. Don't you want to be guided and follow Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى way?
    • Guest ????
      I understand. But i just don't understand the reasoning nor the justice as to why men dont have to cover their hair. Allah has written about hijab in such a confusing way. He doesnt say anywhere that you need to cover your hair, from what i have read. And people always use the "oh it protects you" argument. Which is a complete lie. Girls wearing hijab still get hit on.
    • أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم Alif, Lam, Meem, Allah, there is no God but He, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all things subsist, Allah bears witness that there is no God but He, and so do the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise, Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and whoever goes astray, to its detriment only does he go astray: nor can the bearer of a burden bear the burden of another, nor do We chastise until We raise a messenger, Whoever desires this present life, We hasten to him therein what We please for whomsoever We desire, then We assign to him the hell; he shall enter it despised, driven away, And whoever desires the hereafter and strives for it as he ought to strive and he is a believer; as for these, their striving shall surely be accepted,
×