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27 minutes ago, Journal1 said:

You clearly have never read the Torah, nor Injeel because you would not continue to logically think that Islam is an extension of them when it goes precisely against everything Jesus taught in the Injeel and everything Musa taught in the Torah.

Why would God literally forsake all his prophets and all their teachings for one man - Mohamad to start this radically new and totalitarian political religion. Honestly, I have never witnessed a religion in my life so POLITICAL as Islam. I know many people in the UK and Western countries of course view and experience it as religion but try being Muslim in Middle East (Where I live) It is a relationship between society, the government, and the religion. 

God help us.

 

@E.L King  is forgetting that in Islam, rulings and provisions were different and changed from people to people.  What was allowed for one people may not be allowed for another, vice versa.

The Quran's Descriptions of Commonalities with Christianity

Several different passages in the Quran speak with respect to the commonalities that Muslims share with Christians.

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians--whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

". . . and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God--as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

The Quran's Warnings Regarding Christianity

The Quran also has several passages that express concern for the Christian practice of worshipping Jesus Christ as God. It is the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity that most disturbs Muslims. To Muslims, the worship of any historical figure as God himself is a sacrilege and heresy. 

"If only they [i.e. Christians] had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course, but many of them follow a course that is evil" (5:66).

"Oh People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of God anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. Say not, 'Trinity.' Desist! It will be better for you, for God is One God, Glory be to Him! (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs" (4:171).

"The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is but a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them; how they are deluded away from the Truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary. Yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him! (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)" (9:30-31).

 

@Journal1  Islam is not quite political, but muslim's make it to political

 

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@Journal1 you have made it clear with your words that you know very little about Islam. Rather than wasting our time and your own, why not read a bit? You aren't going to learn a thing and you're certainly not going to convert anyone to your belief while you are spouting ignorance about Islam. I recommend starting with a good translation of the Quran. 

Peace, and may we all be guided to the straight path. 

_______

Also, read over the forum rules. You've come very close to disrespecting the beliefs of others, which is forbidden on shiachat. I'm being lenient because you are new, but watch it. 

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21 hours ago, Journal1 said:

Of course there is only one God. However that does not stop people from creating religions and making up their own Gods and saying their God is true, real or "THEE ONLY GOD". The Ancient Egytptians had many deities and one main God of the Sun or "The Sun God."

Now we both know this God is not at all the God of the bible. This God does not exist (because there is only one God). 

 

I make my point, that the God of the Quran does not exist. There is only one God, of course. I am making the logical point that what entity the Quran is talking about is not the same as the bible. PERIOD.

If you want to keep claiming that Islam has the same religion or same God or is just a continuance of God's word and and work mankind, you are only deceiving yourself. The God of Islam was created by man

you are wrong you created the jesus pbuh as son of a god whereas he pbuh humself said, son of man has come has come to find the missing and has come to free them,
until son of man doesnot get up from dead,

people will see son of adam on clouds,
you dont know the time when  son of man will come,
son of man will be betrayed will be crucified and, 
and when he pbuh went to jerusalem, when asked people with him pbuh said, this is jesus the prohet from nazarath and galalee 

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21 hours ago, Journal1 said:

Okay... Islam gets everything from the previous two religions, talks about us all in your book, literally. No where in our book does it mention Muslims, or the Mohamad, because the false prophet Mohamad did not come until 560 AD. But it did warn us about false prophets coming in sheep's clothing to deceive many people, coming with a different story, and then sure enough this religion came that has deceived many people. This is really a sad thing that I am not happy about. I do not take pleasure in, I am greatly saddened and I pray with all my heart that some might have their understandings enlightened and their hearts opened to see Jesus for who he truly is

where in torah christians and christainity is mentioned

where did he say that no prophet will come after me, and he gave the example of a tree and fruits and you know that prophet muhammad pbuh had many followers and islam is the second largest religion in the world, 

a women asked his help for his son and he replied that i have come for the people of israel so he was send to those people, prophets before holy propeht muhammad pbuh were send to different nations but muhammad pbuh was send as the last prophet to all mankind,

holy prophet muhammad pbuh also mentioned coming of false prophets and muslims also fought with them

jesus was asked, what will be your sign of coming at the end of the age? many will come to you claiming i am the crist and will decieve you, many false prophets and christs will appear and perform great signs and miracles, so will be coming of son of man, son of man will come at the hour when you donot expect it
what i think here jesus pbuh says is about anti crist

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7 hours ago, E.L King said:

What?

Surah Mai'dah 44-45

44. "Verily We have sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light, by which the prophets, who submitted themselves (to Us), judged for those who were Jews, and (so did) the rabbis and the scholars (of divinity of the Jews) in accordance with what they were entrusted with the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof. Therefore, do not dread the people, and dread (opposing) Me; and do not sell My Signs for a little price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down; those are they that are the infidels."

45. "And We prescribed for them in it that: a life is for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds (there shall be) retaliation. But whoever remits it, it shall be an expiation (of his sins) for him; and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are they that are the unjust."

 

What was prescribed to others were different in some respects, @E.L King.

The Torah was sent down by God and therefore Jews may judge by it.  

@Journal1

Edited by wmehar2

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8 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

Surah Mai'dah 44-45

44. "Verily We have sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light, by which the prophets, who submitted themselves (to Us), judged for those who were Jews, and (so did) the rabbis and the scholars (of divinity of the Jews) in accordance with what they were entrusted with the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof. Therefore, do not dread the people, and dread (opposing) Me; and do not sell My Signs for a little price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down; those are they that are the infidels."

45. "And We prescribed for them in it that: a life is for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds (there shall be) retaliation. But whoever remits it, it shall be an expiation (of his sins) for him; and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are they that are the unjust."

 

What was prescribed to others were different in some respects, @E.L King.

The Torah was sent down by God and therefore Jews may judge by it.  

@Journal1

What does that have to do with what I said?

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

45. "And We prescribed for them in it that: a life is for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds (there shall be) retaliation. But whoever remits it, it shall be an expiation (of his sins) for him; and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are they that are the unjust."

Exodus 21. is the guidance behind this.

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

The world seems to think it's justification for first hand revenge however in Exodus note how it is specific to the punishment given in the event of retaliation after the judges have spoken. The entire chapter is on how judgement should be laid out. almost a judgment per verse. If you read far enough you'll also see ox for ox. 

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On 10/27/2017 at 9:54 PM, Journal1 said:

Why would God literally forsake all his prophets and all their teachings for one man - Mohamad to start this radically new and totalitarian political religion. Honestly

well, as for as I know holy quran says

'listen again we gave book to moses for the good people to grant them blessings, it tells everything so that they know, they have to come to me, o unbeleivers this book is also by us which is blessed, follow this, so that you may not say that, before this the book was send only  for two nations and we don't know them studying the book, or you may say if it would have been send to us we would have been on the right path, so now you have the book and the bleesings'

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On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:39 AM, notme said:

@Journal1 you have made it clear with your words that you know very little about Islam. Rather than wasting our time and your own, why not read a bit? You aren't going to learn a thing and you're certainly not going to convert anyone to your belief while you are spouting ignorance about Islam. I recommend starting with a good translation of the Quran. 

Peace, and may we all be guided to the straight path. 

_______

Also, read over the forum rules. You've come very close to disrespecting the beliefs of others, which is forbidden on shiachat. I'm being lenient because you are new, but watch it. 

Technically You are disrespecting me right in this moment by insinuating "I am wasting your time". No one is forcing you to respond. Second I am not trying to "convert" anyone.  I am sharing my beliefs about God. That is what this site is for, no? To converse, hear others beliefs, share yours? 

And I apologize if I offended anyone, but you must acknowledge that these are serious questions that non-Muslims have about Islam. There is a history that does have (killing), and there are terror attacks that take place around the world in the name of Islam. If I am not allowed to bring up these questions or even mention it - because it's "forbidden" on Shiachat, what are you saying about your religion. You seemingly are solidifying the idea that Islam is a controlling totalitarian religion. This is what your showing me by your threats. 

You literally told me "watch it". 

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21 minutes ago, Journal1 said:

Technically You are disrespecting me right in this moment by insinuating "I am wasting your time". No one is forcing you to respond. Second I am not trying to "convert" anyone.  I am sharing my beliefs about God. That is what this site is for, no? To converse, hear others beliefs, share yours? 

And I apologize if I offended anyone, but you must acknowledge that these are serious questions that non-Muslims have about Islam. There is a history that does have (killing), and there are terror attacks that take place around the world in the name of Islam. If I am not allowed to bring up these questions or even mention it - because it's "forbidden" on Shiachat, what are you saying about your religion. You seemingly are solidifying the idea that Islam is a controlling totalitarian religion. This is what your showing me by your threats. 

You literally told me "watch it". 

Actually, I am required to advise members on their rule violations and issue warnings or suspensions as appropriate.  Notice the blue label and badge under my icon?  

Please ask about what Islam says about murder, terror, violence.  That's allowed.  Do not blaspheme against our Prophets or against God.  We understand that you are Christian and do not believe in the prophethood of Mohammed (as), and do believe in a triune nature of the One God.  You also need to understand that we are adamantly monotheist and follow the God of Adam (as), Abraham (as), Moses (as), and Jesus (as).  

We have rules, not to be totalitarian, but to insure that use of this discussion site is a positive experience for anyone who is interested and willing to discuss.  I have made no threat.  I have advised you to read the site rules and obey them so that you are allowed to continue to participate. 

I also advise reading a translation of the Quran in your language before proceeding.  Would you find it productive use of time to listen to a "Muslim" who knows nothing about Christianity offering you criticisms of all that they think is wrong with Christianity, even if their assumptions are false?  I assume not. Unless speaking in ignorance is a requisite part of your belief system, I have not disrespected your beliefs by advising you against wasting time.

Edited by notme
Typo

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first if you are hear to share your view you must learn how to share. “radicaly political , and what kind of person muhammad was” this your tone represents that you are here to criticize. 

 

acording to our teaching we can judge people by their statments (quran teaches us lot about hypocrite peoples)

 

so now if you are here to learn about islam and chirsianity then you are welcome we can answer you from holy bible. but if you are just here to criticize then i will ask all momineen to stop answering him and they will. 

 

i welcome you if you are here for logical discusion, and if you are then in next post am going to ask you have u studied life of muhamma?have u studied quran completly? or have u studied bible completly? lets have answer of these question first then debate

 

(ghualm e ali)

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On 10/23/2017 at 7:46 AM, Journal1 said:

Why every time I that I mention Jesus and my love for him, the Muslim person I am speaking with goes into this script, (I feel like it is a script because diverse people have used the same words verbatim), of how they love Jesus too. They say, "One cannot be Muslim unless he believes in Jesus, I love Jesus, I love Jesus more than you" 

 

Salam Journal1,

When I have received this dialogue from my Muslim friends, I quote Jesus Christ. He said the following (I boldened some) :

 If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bein you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 

Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

- John 14:15-21 (NIV)

(Note: some Muslims try to replace the Spirit of Truth with a man (Muhammad), but the Spirit of Truth is not a human, but is the Spirit of God, who never dies but rather is forever with people who obey Jesus Christ.

I also remind my Muslim friends that loving Jesus Christ is not a competition of who loves him more. Rather, loving Jesus Christ includes the individual decision of actively obeying his commands.

Interestingly, many Muslims and Christians too do not understand that the title Christ is not simply a last name; it means Anointed One. What is Jesus anointed to be? The King of kings

Loving him is shown by obeying him, not by simply saying we love him.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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