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HayderM

Rights of Ex-Muslims in an 'Ideal' Islamic Country

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Salaam to you all Brothers and Sisters, as part of my study further into Islam I have been wanting to tackle all the controversial topics that I feel are often overlooked or evaded,

I have two straightforward questions for those who may know a reasonable answer as I have not been able to find any information,

1) In an Ideal Islamic country where the law is in place as it should be if a Muslim becomes convinced that God does not Exist and therefore becomes an Athiest, is there any punishment upon this person?

1a) If such person decides he/she would like to openly debate and discuss his/her stance with Muslim Scholars/educated people, would this be permissible?

1c) If such a person is not welcome for his atheistic ideas, does he have the right to leave the Islamic State and live elsewhere free from Sharia Law?

I would like to state that these are for research purposes into Islam as I would like to confront every question that is commonly asked and hopefully compile a record/book of my findings, I have not had any luck in searching the web for such answers and was hoping someone could even point me in the right direction/books that discuss these matters. (I have also messaged Ayatollah Sistani for the time being but I expect a reply in 3 weeks+)

Thank you to all who post,

Hayder.

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10 minutes ago, HayderM said:

Salaam to you all Brothers and Sisters, as part of my study further into Islam I have been wanting to tackle all the controversial topics that I feel are often overlooked or evaded,

I have two straightforward questions for those who may know a reasonable answer as I have not been able to find any information,

1) In an Ideal Islamic country where the law is in place as it should be if a Muslim becomes convinced that God does not Exist and therefore becomes an Athiest, is there any punishment upon this person?

1a) If such person decides he/she would like to openly debate and discuss his/her stance with Muslim Scholars/educated people, would this be permissible?

1c) If such a person is not welcome for his atheistic ideas, does he have the right to leave the Islamic State and live elsewhere free from Sharia Law?

I would like to state that these are for research purposes into Islam as I would like to confront every question that is commonly asked and hopefully compile a record/book of my findings, I have not had any luck in searching the web for such answers and was hoping someone could even point me in the right direction/books that discuss these matters. (I have also messaged Ayatollah Sistani for the time being but I expect a reply in 3 weeks+)

Thank you to all who post,

Hayder.

Not from Islamic perspective.

No one looks inside anyone's heart or what they do in the confines of their personal home.

In the current world, a secular/non secular state. How does a State/Country look at a covert/ overt Traitor?

1)A citizen, does not love the country, but does not harm it in any way.

2)A citizen, live in the country, and actively conspires against the country with the enemy and actively undermines constitution.

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11 minutes ago, HayderM said:

 

1) In an Ideal Islamic country where the law is in place as it should be if a Muslim becomes convinced that God does not Exist and therefore becomes an Athiest, is there any punishment upon this person?

1a) If such person decides he/she would like to openly debate and discuss his/her stance with Muslim Scholars/educated people, would this be permissible?

1c) If such a person is not welcome for his atheistic ideas, does he have the right to leave the Islamic State and live elsewhere free from Sharia Law?

 

 

Walaykom l Salam, 

1)  One is punishing themselves by being ignorant to the signs of the world because if you take the time to just gaze at nature and take a deep understanding of your body, you'll find that this just doesn't happen by accident, we are structured so well as human beings. countries which are considered to be an 'Islamic country' would simply expect you to respect them as you would want them to respect them. So not discussing your views would be a good thing.

1a) Of course! Muslims in particular love a debate, especially Shia Muslims from my little experience with them. I was before an agnostic person, but when talking with Muslims they were happy to talk to me and answer the questions I had for them.

 

1b) The world is no ones land but Allah, or as the atheists see it, it's a free land. As long as you harm no one and respect people as you expect to be respected, you're free to roam the dunyah as you please. 

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18 minutes ago, HayderM said:

Salaam to you all Brothers and Sisters, as part of my study further into Islam I have been wanting to tackle all the controversial topics that I feel are often overlooked or evaded,

I have two straightforward questions for those who may know a reasonable answer as I have not been able to find any information,

1) In an Ideal Islamic country where the law is in place as it should be if a Muslim becomes convinced that God does not Exist and therefore becomes an Athiest, is there any punishment upon this person?

1a) If such person decides he/she would like to openly debate and discuss his/her stance with Muslim Scholars/educated people, would this be permissible?

1c) If such a person is not welcome for his atheistic ideas, does he have the right to leave the Islamic State and live elsewhere free from Sharia Law?

I would like to state that these are for research purposes into Islam as I would like to confront every question that is commonly asked and hopefully compile a record/book of my findings, I have not had any luck in searching the web for such answers and was hoping someone could even point me in the right direction/books that discuss these matters. (I have also messaged Ayatollah Sistani for the time being but I expect a reply in 3 weeks+)

Thank you to all who post,

Hayder.

It depends upon the person's conduct.

1. If he believes such and does not affect others, he is allowed to live a life as a normal human being.He is not allowed to openly declare himself as apostate for it's a sin and disloyalty towards islam and disloyalty is punishable harshly by all countries and therefore not tolerated in islam as well. The reason of this is also that it's actually advocating devil's case that I am not bound by any law therefore can do anything as I want.

1a). He can engage in debates and ask questions which hinder him from scholars and there is no problem in it.

1c. Yes, he is not barred from leaving his country and live elsewhere. 

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I am just trying to get a handle on these type of questions, to see what is it that we are really after or want to discuss.

Assuming, that someone is that way.

Is there a signin sheet at the Mosques, that you attended the Prayers. (No)

Is there a government signin sheet that you, Fasted, went to Hajj etc..(No). Zakat, like paying Taxes in a Secular state.

Do you have to take the oath in front of a Government official that god is one.(No).

IS their a question on the Visa form, that are you still a Muslim? or you will not be able to leave( No).

Putting aside the question of a debate. So what are we really looking at here, You are of different opinion. If you live in a country you have to abide by their constitution, you can’t  challenge it. It needs to be amended by a General vote.

First, try to understand it from a secular state/county point of view. ( Remove the Religion) or just mentally replace Religious Law(Constitution)  with Just a Secular  Constitution.

Think it this way, and you will get to the core issue. 

Think about , that I do not what to be in a capitalist system, I like communist System.Or Do not want Royals , I want different system. Reaction to your ideas, you can debate them, but you will not be allowed to undermine the countries system. 

( Not discussing it from Islamic Law angle). 

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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This is between this person and God. Pray for them that God would show them that he is real and more than real, he the creator of "real" and he is awesome, great, and loving, and worthy to be known and worshipped. I pray for all those that do not believe in God that God would open their eyes. The devil wants to keep people from knowing God but as believers and people who have God revealed to us we must show them God through our behavior, actions, words, and love. I have friends who do not believe in God but when we are together I pray they see a piece of God through my life and love for people. I do not believe politics should be involved. This is not what God wants. But I pray God puts his people in positions of influence to lead societies into righteousness to preserve morality.

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Religion is a way of life. Everyone alive has a Religion. Everyone alive have a Deity at the center of their Religion. This deity could be their own self/ego/ideas. So, even an Atheist, Agnostic follows a Religion( way of life). I do not see an Atheist or an Agnostic once assuming a public office, converts to a different Religion. Ideas or proposals or laws or amendments are driven from a person's belief system. That’s why there a conservatives and liberals parties. Have you looked at what they support in terms of moral ethical platforms. They will clearly align with their personal beliefs. So there is no separation of church and state. Communism and capitalism are also a way of life, i.e Religion in that regard.

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