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kirtc

Kurdistan- the new Israeli project

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1 minute ago, kirtc said:

If you expect to read that in the news, then honestly this debate between us is useless.. which I think it is. This thread isn't only for you anyway. 

Ok then lets drop down to your level and use your criteria. Israel buys Kurdish oil, therefore what exactly? Doesn't the USA buy Iraqi oil? The USA is allied to Israel, now Iraq indirectly works with Israel or is the standard different with Iraq?

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6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Doesn't the USA buy Iraqi oil?

Iraq is not unified in politics... Just like Lebanon is not unified in politics. There are parties in Lebanon that are pro-Israel and USA. That is why im not nationalistic. Lebanon is divided politically and so is Iraq. 
 

6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Israel buys Kurdish oil

Being shia is not only praying and calling Ali a.s your mawlah.. You forget it is as much political as it is religious. You have to recognize the Yazid of your time. It seems you don't because if you did you would understand dealing with Israel on its own is a crime and treachery 

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6 hours ago, kirtc said:

Iraq is not unified in politics... Just like Lebanon is not unified in politics. There are parties in Lebanon that are pro-Israel and USA. That is why im not nationalistic. Lebanon is divided politically and so is Iraq. 

Being shia is not only praying and calling Ali a.s your mawlah.. You forget it is as much political as it is religious. You have to recognize the Yazid of your time. It seems you don't because if you did you would understand dealing with Israel on its own is a crime and treachery 

1-I recall myself saying the exact samething about the KRG not being politically united but you ignored that point. Ironically you used my own point against me. 

2-Iraq is a democracy, currently Abadi is in power and he is selling oil to the USA. Infact none of the opposition parties or even Maliki within his own party is condemning oil sales to the USA. Money speaks louder than rhetoric akhi. 

3-Actually if you asked the question like "Do you support Israel's actions?" you would know my position. You could of kindly DMed me, instead you continue to presuppose things about me. My position is clear, Israel's actions in relations is wrong but that doesn't make Iran the good guy. Good and bad in the realm of politics doesn't exist. 

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Salam 

I am half kurdish (feyli) half arab iraqi. No doubt most kurds appreciate that feylis are against the movement, mostly because it would sever relations with Iran. Feylis belong to both countries. The relationship between kurdistan and israel is also frowned upon. Do I want it to separate? Sure, but not if it means supporting israel (zionism). My answer would be no. Not expressing opposition alone is supporting zionism and I refuse to support an oppressor.

6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Ok then lets drop down to your level and use your criteria. Israel buys Kurdish oil, therefore what exactly? Doesn't the USA buy Iraqi oil? The USA is allied to Israel, now Iraq indirectly works with Israel or is the standard different with Iraq?

No one anywhere said the iraqi government is great. In my family, we absolutely hate them all. They're corrupt thieves. We're a country rich in oil, but there's a major lack in progress/development and poverty is very much a big issue. Turn on any iraqi news channel and you'll see politicians point fingers at each other to confuse the public. It is very obvious to anyone that the public is frustrated with their government. 

Still, why is it ok to sell to the US but not israel? For many reasons. The US is a threat. Refuse to cooperate, it'll take it anyway. Israel openly admits to its atrocities and demands support. The US on the other hand, finds excuses, e.g. "weapons of mass destruction". While both commit injustice, one appreciates it's wrong while the other doesn't. Israel is right in the heart of middle east. If it gains more allies, it'll become stronger. That can create a shift in power. Israel is the gate to the middle east for the western world. That's a threat to the muslim world, its traditions and laws.

Iraq is also a strong ally of Iran. With a footing in Iraq, Israel becomes a bigger threat to Iran. As shia, we care for our iranian shia brothers, just as we do our sunni brothers in Palestine. 

Even if these are speculations, I wouldn't want to risk it. 

... just realised you're feyli too... how are you for this?? We weren't even considered part of northern kurdistan until this movement started lol 

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6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

1-I recall myself saying the exact samething about the KRG not being politically united but you ignored that point. Ironically you used my own point against me.

I never said they were, my topic is about Kurdistan as a nation supported by Israel, I admit my opening post was wrong in saying "Kurds are the new ISIS" instead of being specific to the Kdp/pdk. That is where you probably got the racist notion from, and for that I apologize. 

6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

2-Iraq is a democracy, currently Abadi is in power and he is selling oil to the USA. Infact none of the opposition parties or even Maliki within his own party is condemning oil sales to the USA. Money speaks louder than rhetoric akhi. 

Lebanon has a shia party called amal, and they deal with shifty politics too while pretending to be pro resistance. 

6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

but that doesn't make Iran the good guy. Good and bad in the realm of politics doesn't exist. 

I think this is where you and I fundamentally disagree. 

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@yusur317

Tu feyli xulki kua? ashira'ged chesa? 

Quote

Still, why is it ok to sell to the US but not israel? For many reasons. The US is a threat. Refuse to cooperate, it'll take it anyway. Israel openly admits to its atrocities and demands support. The US on the other hand, finds excuses, e.g. "weapons of mass destruction". While both commit injustice, one appreciates it's wrong while the other doesn't. Israel is right in the heart of middle east. If it gains more allies, it'll become stronger. That can create a shift in power. Israel is the gate to the middle east for the western world. That's a threat to the muslim world, its traditions and laws.

I'm confused, what are you trying to say here? 

Quote

Iraq is also a strong ally of Iran. With a footing in Iraq, Israel becomes a bigger threat to Iran. As shia, we care for our iranian shia brothers, just as we do our sunni brothers in Palestine. 

Geo-poltical goals are not about religon. Iraq is a client state of Iraq, Iran is being imperalist in funding several organizations that have been classified as terrorist organizations by the USA, such as the asa'ib ahle al-haqq. 

Quote

.. just realised you're feyli too... how are you for this?? We weren't even considered part of northern kurdistan until this movement started lol 

Northern Kurdistan? What do you mean? 

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6 hours ago, kirtc said:

I never said they were, my topic is about Kurdistan as a nation supported by Israel, I admit my opening post was wrong in saying "Kurds are the new ISIS" instead of being specific to the Kdp/pdk. That is where you probably got the racist notion from, and for that I apologize. 

Lebanon has a shia party called amal, and they deal with shifty politics too while pretending to be pro resistance. 

I think this is where you and I fundamentally disagree. 

 

Quote

http://www.e-ir.info/2011/07/02/realism-and-liberalism-in-modern-international-relations/

The above mentioned ‘state of nature’ is a central assumption in realist theory, holding that anarchy is a defined condition of the international system, as well as postulating that statecraft and subsequently, foreign policy, is largely devoted to ensuring national survival and the pursuit of national interests. Realism is, therefore, primarily concerned with states and their actions in the international system, as driven by competitive self-interest. Thus, realism holds that international organizations and other trans-state or sub-state actors hold little real influence, in the face of states as unitary actors looking after themselves.

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6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

@yusur317

Tu feyli xulki kua? ashira'ged chesa? 

I don't speak feyli lol My dad only taught us Iraqi. 

I'm confused, what are you trying to say here? 

I'm trying to say that Israel doesn't have a sense of morale. If we don't help israel, then that's the end of it. If we don't cooperate with the US, they'll make it rain bullets and nukes. Trump on oil: "You heard me, I would take the oil... I would not leave Iraq and let Iran take the oil... You're not stealing anything.. we're reimbursing ourselves... at a minimum, and I say more. We're taking back $1.5tn to reimburse ourselves." How much oil do we actually sell to the US? 

Geo-poltical goals are not about religon. Iraq is a client state of Iraq, Iran is being imperalist in funding several organizations that have been classified as terrorist organizations by the USA, such as the asa'ib ahle al-haqq. 

I don't understand your point here? Religion is very much intertwined with politics. The entire split between shias and sunnis is political. 

Northern Kurdistan? What do you mean? 

Sorry I meant northern Iraq kurdistan. My family in Iraq voiced their thoughts and said they were never considered kudish by them until recently. 

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37 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

, foreign policy, is largely devoted to ensuring national survival and the pursuit of national interests.

what national interests... you are ignorant if you dont believe Israel does things behind the scenes in international politics

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6 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Iran is being imperalist in funding several organizations that have been classified as terrorist organizations by the USA, such as the asa'ib ahle al-haqq

This isn't true, list of all FTOs here; https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm. There are only 2 shia organizations on that list, hezbollah and kataib Hezbollah. I hope you don't actually think the designation by the US, the most imperialist state on earth means anything. All nations act in self-interest and Iran obviously wants to defend and increase its influence around the region, but there is a difference in the scale, some nations use violence almost unrelentingly and then call others terrorists. Just look at the US and how many nations they've invaded, how many governments they've overthrown, designations made by them should be treated with skepticism. I'm not defending everything Iran has done, but I wonder why you'd use the US designation to make your point.

Edited by Mohamed1993

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