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Kurdistan- the new Israeli project

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On 10/18/2017 at 10:31 AM, kirtc said:

"lebanese hate kurds... you all look the same" these are heavy unwarranted accusations.. I have never expressed any sentiment on this site or anywhere any feelings towards kurds. Nor have I heard lebanese talk about kurds until recently because of the news..

the guy on the left looks like him because he has the same uniform and hat. google samir gaegar and barazani in arabic and there are plenty of photos.

dont call me racist because you dont like what im saying. they are dealing with israelis.. they admit and israel admits it. only you deny it.

You continiously shift the burden of proof on me when you are making the claims. It isn't even on google and you once again making things up. Can you actually provide a clearer photo or another photo? 

By the way it isn't "barazani" it's 'Bar-zani', atleast learn to pronounce the name properly.

2. I have never denied the KDP has had dealings with Israel, but the relationship you are trying to claim simply hasn't been proven. If I meet with donal trump, does that now make me a neocon? Does it now make me an american puppet? NO, you are employing  fallacious reasoning that has no basis.

3. KDP doesn't equate all the Kurds, infact the majority of Kurds do not support the KDP, the majority support the PKK. 

4. Actually go on twitter, notice plenty of Lebanese are anti-kurdish and simply hate Kurds for no reason. Like with respect, stay in your own lane; you don't know anything about the Kurds or Kurdistan.

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On 10/20/2017 at 9:42 AM, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

4. Actually go on twitter, notice plenty of Lebanese are anti-kurdish and simply hate Kurds for no reason. Like with respect, stay in your own lane; you don't know anything about the Kurds or Kurdistan.

Pkk is a turkish militia founded by Abdullah ocalan. Ypg is a Syrian kurd militia related to pkk. Same ideology. also follows Abdullah Ocalan's philosophy. Their political party is ypd.
Both the Syrian and turkish kurds don't get along with the conservative capitalist kdp/pdk which is barzanis party. Syrians and Turks are progressive socialists.. used to be marxist

Iraq has 2 big parties/militias...Kdp/pdk and puk. Puk is friendly with the Turks and Syrians, iran and baghdad... founded by talabani
Iran also has 2 parties, one aligned with barzani kdp/pdk. Iran bombed their office in Kurdistan like 6 months ago...
They have pjak which is aligned with pkk. Kdp iran was inactive for a while unil recently took up arms again against the gov near the time saudi opened a consulate in erbil
sub7an Allah

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2 hours ago, kirtc said:

Pkk is a turkish militia founded by Abdullah ocalan. Ypg is a Syrian kurd militia related to pkk. Same ideology. also follows Abdullah Ocalan's philosophy. Their political party is ypd.
Both the Syrian and turkish kurds don't get along with the conservative capitalist kdp/pdk which is barzanis party. Syrians and Turks are progressive socialists.. used to be marxist

Iraq has 2 big parties/militias...Kdp/pdk and puk. Puk is friendly with the Turks and Syrians, iran and baghdad... founded by talabani
Iran also has 2 parties, one aligned with barzani kdp/pdk. Iran bombed their office in Kurdistan like 6 months ago...
They have pjak which is aligned with pkk. Kdp iran was inactive for a while unil recently took up arms again against the gov near the time saudi opened a consulate in erbil
sub7an Allah

PKK is a Kurdish militia, not Turkish.

Tradtionally you would be correct, PUK and KDP are the biggest parties; however this has changed. Gorran is now the second biggest party in the KRG parliament, winning more seats than the PUK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan_parliamentary_election,_2013

PUK isn't friendly with turkey, PUK is seen as friendly with Iran. It's the KDP who are friendly with Turkey.

The main founding father of the PUK was Jalal Talabani but there were also other people like: 

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The patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) was established in 1976; among its founding members were Jalal Talabani along with two Fayli Kurds, Adel Murad and Abd al-Razzaq Aziz Mirza (usually known as Razzaq Fayli) and others. The KDP started a new organization, which was partly a revival of the old KDP, called the Provisional Leadership with a Fayli Kurd in charge of its foreign relations office in London. 

After the 1991 popular uprising in Kurdistan Iraq Fayli Kurds began to come to the liberated areas in increasing though limited numbers and within the ranks of most Kurdish and Iraqi opposition parties. Some even worked within the new Kurdish administration in the liberated areas in various capacities. Among them can be mentioned Habib Muhammad Karim, Yadollah Karim, Jalil Fayli, Adel Murad, Razzaq Fayli and others [18]http://faylee.org/articles/doc111.htm

I think you are talking about KDPI, KDPI isn't related to the KDP, though it is understandable people make this mistake because of similar names. However KDP-S in Syria is related to the KDP in Iraq. In Iran there is also the PAK and PJAK.

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On 10/17/2017 at 7:13 AM, Sindbad05 said:

Kurds have ashamed Muslim brotherhood. 

Not all Kurds, Brother. Back in the '40s and 50's Mustafa Barzani was getting help from Russians, Soviet Union and Communists. The Iraqi and Iranian animosity with Masoud Barzani and his followers stems back to the time before the Iranian Revolution, however Iran did help the Kurds when the Ba'ath Party was in power. Mustafa Barzani and his followers moved to Iran after the 1975 Algiers Agreement, while other Kurds moved to Syria. It's complicated.  

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1 hour ago, Hameedeh said:

Not all Kurds, Brother. Back in the '40s and 50's Mustafa Barzani was getting help from Russians, Soviet Union and Communists. The Iraqi and Iranian animosity with Masoud Barzani and his followers stems back to the time before the Iranian Revolution, however Iran did help the Kurds when the Ba'ath Party was in power. Mustafa Barzani and his followers moved to Iran after the 1975 Algiers Agreement, while other Kurds moved to Syria. It's complicated.  

I am also saying those who support Israel war against brothers. Masoud Barzani is politician and like all Mechiavelli politicians will run where he finds riches.  He along with Saddam even didn't care about certain Kurds factions and killed them as well in coalition. I seek refuge of Allah for Kurds.

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3 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

AlSura is an iranian funded propaganda website that spreads anti-kurdish rubbish. If you were smart and geniune you would realise this video is old and not only is it old he is referring to the Arab tribes that joined ISIS... 

I'm still confused to why a non-iraqi is so invested in the politics of kurds in Iraq.

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On 10/21/2017 at 1:45 PM, Dhulfikar said:

In Germany:

e054155ed67006bbb1f93c6a1d8f32b4b911481b

To me it appears you are trying to convince yourself. 

Here is the source of that photo: http://honestlyconcerned.info/links/hamburg-solidaritaetskundgebung-der-norddeutschen-kurden-mit-der-autonomen-region-kurdistan-in-nordirak-ali-ertan-toprak/

It's a KDP rally...

 

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9 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

AlSura is an iranian funded propaganda website that spreads anti-kurdish rubbish. If you were smart and geniune you would realise this video is old and not only is it old he is referring to the Arab tribes that joined ISIS... 

Perhaps you can show the old video with it's source, so I can trust your saying. 

Quote

I'm still confused to why a non-iraqi is so invested in the politics of kurds in Iraq.

Born Iraqi. 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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10 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

To me it appears you are trying to convince yourself. 

Here is the source of that photo: http://honestlyconcerned.info/links/hamburg-solidaritaetskundgebung-der-norddeutschen-kurden-mit-der-autonomen-region-kurdistan-in-nordirak-ali-ertan-toprak/

It's a KDP rally...

And what could Israel flags flying tells you?

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10 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Perhaps you can show the old video with it's source, so I can trust your saying. 

I'm Iraqi. 

1- You really think Al Sura is reliable? Just look at all their tweets, its all directed against Kurds. It doesn't even try and hide the fact it's racist. If I show you a racist arab, that means what exactly? All arabs are racist? It's clear-cut al-sura has an agenda against Kurds and they are out to generalise. Not to mention saudi arabia has ban al-sura https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/886462179481866242

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Saudi Arabia has blocked access to Al Sura English, The Huffington Post and many Facebook pages now

That should indicate they have a clear iranian bias. 

2-I've seen the video before and I cannot find the link as I don't remember the name. None the less me not being able to present that evidence doesn't make it a new vid. 

4-Plus you definately aren't Iraqi, you see you don't even see the places he mentioned. He mentioned sunni arab towns where ISIS was welcomed by the tribes. Now unless hashd have decided to chain their sect, i'm pretty sure you owe me an apology. 

5-In'te iraqi min wen? sa'ken fi europa u un'suri...

Edited by Hameedeh
[Mod Note: Excessively large fonts (size 16-72) may be reduced to a standard size (12-14) by a Moderator.]

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2 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

1- You really think Al Sura is reliable? Just look at all their tweets, its all directed against Kurds. It doesn't even try and hide the fact it's racist. If I show you a racist arab, that means what exactly? All arabs are racist? It's clear-cut al-sura has an agenda against Kurds and they are out to generalise. Not to mention saudi arabia has ban al-sura https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/886462179481866242

That should indicate they have a clear iranian bias. 

2-I've seen the video before and I cannot find the link as I don't remember the name. None the less me not being able to present that evidence doesn't make it a new vid. 

I don't really know the Suras reliability, I just quoted the video. It would be nice to get the original one if that video is old. Saudi Arabia main enemy is Iran. 

Quote

3-In'te iraqi min wen? sa'ken fi europa u un'suri...

I was born in Samawah, then moved to Finland :grin: 

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Just now, Dhulfikar said:

I don't really know the Suras reliability, I just quoted the video. It would be nice to get the original one if that video is old. Saudi Arabia main enemy is Iran. 

I was born in Samawah, then moved to Finland :grin: 

1-Khu yala, kel'em shawy'a arabi fi lah'ja iraqi. kha'lee e'shuf ee'da in'te min iraq. 

2-You've not actually lived in Iraq? So what do you even know? Posting rubbish on the internet as if you are an expert. Go actually visit Kurdistan in Iraq and then see how many Arab IDPs the Kurdistan region has hosted and you dare to show Kurds in a racist light.

Let me show you the war crimes shia militias have committed:

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https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2017/01/05/Amnesty-International-report-Shiite-militias-using-US-weapons-for-war-crimes/2891483635276/

BAGHDAD, Jan. 5 (UPI) -- Human rights group Amnesty International says Shiite militias are committing war crimes using U.S. weapons provided by the Iraqi government in the fight against the Islamic State.

Issued Thursday, the Amnesty report highlights a central fear that the Iraqi government is essentially deputizing the militias in the fight against the Islamic State. Members of the militias were responsible for thousands of deaths in the years-long insurgency that came after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Quote

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/03/18/iraq-militia-attacks-destroy-villages-displace-thousands

 Militias, volunteer fighters, and Iraqi security forces engaged in deliberate destruction of civilian property after these forces, following US and Iraqi air strikes, forced the retreat of Islamic State fighters (also known as ISIS) from the town of Amerli and surrounding areas in early September 2014, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. The Iraqi government should rein in the militias and countries participating in the fight against ISIS, including the United States and Iran, should ensure military operations and other related support in the fight against ISIS are not paving the way for such abuses.

Quote

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/01/iraq-end-irresponsible-arms-transfers-fuelling-militia-war-crimes/

  • Militias allied to the Iraqi government have access to arms from at least 17 countries
  • Recent arms transfers have fuelled enforced disappearances, abductions, torture, summary killings, and deliberate destruction of civilian property
  • Iraq is the world’s sixth-largest importer of heavy weaponry

 

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2-You've not actually lived in Iraq? So what do you even know? Posting rubbish on the internet as if you are an expert. Go actually visit Kurdistan in Iraq and then see how many Arab IDPs the Kurdistan region has hosted and you dare to show Kurds in a racist light.

So to know what is going in Iraq means ones needs to be live there physically? Have I even claim or show to be an expert? Like yourself and I, we post sources here and there. How reliability they are when it comes to war and politics, only God know best of it.

Quote

Let me show you the war crimes shia militias have committed:

I'm aware of the war crimes nor do I hide them. Among them there are evil ones and people who seek revenge. And I don't trust amnesty judgement of what is criminal so that aside.

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@Dhulfikar 

Quote

So to know what is going in Iraq means ones needs to be live there physically? Have I even claim or show to be an expert? Like yourself and I, we post sources here and there. How reliability they are when it comes to war and politics, only God know best of it.

Actually in order to understand the situation with perspective you do need to be there physically, in your case I know you haven't. 

Secondly I have posted sources that are credible and respected globally. 

Quote

I'm aware of the war crimes nor do I hide them. Among them there are evil ones and people who seek revenge. And I don't trust amnesty judgement of what is criminal so that aside.

How convenient is it that you are now questioning my sources when  I show shia militias committing war crimes. I also showed you Human rights watch, not just amnesty. Amnesty is pretty accurate when it comes to the information it reports, here is their page on accuracy of information:

http://www.amnesty.eu/en/about-amnesty-international/faq/#.We00I1tSzcs

Quote

How does Amnesty International ensure it has the facts right?

Before any statement, publication or report is issued, its text is closely reviewed to ensure it is factually accurate, politically impartial and consistent with Amnesty International's mission. When Amnesty International deals with allegations rather than undisputed facts, it makes this clear in its findings and may call for an investigation. If Amnesty International makes a mistake, it issues a correction. Consequently, Amnesty International's research is globally recognised for its reliability. We are consulted widely including by governments, inter-governmental organisations, journalists, scholars and other human rights organisations and campaigning groups.

Also keep in my mind when the Rwanda genocide was going on, it was only amnesty that reported it...

[EDIT]

Edited by Hameedeh
Insult was removed.

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Actually in order to understand the situation with perspective you do need to be there physically, in your case I know you haven't. 

Nonsense.

Quote

Secondly I have posted sources that are credible and respected globally. 

 

Amnesty or Human rights watch is not credible and respected in my viewpoint. I'm not interested on Western values of war crimes. I take Islamic values of war crimes.

Quote

How convenient is it that you are now questioning my sources when  I show shia militias committing war crimes. I also showed you Human rights watch, not just amnesty. Amnesty is pretty accurate when it comes to the information it reports, here is their page on accuracy of information:

I don't deny some shia militias commiting war crimes. Because I have witnessed a Shi'a videos from Shias themselves where they do unmoral act that is against their religion.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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@Dhulfikar

You still cannot show me you speak arabic.... 

Quote

Nonsense.

Based on what is it "nonsense"?

Quote

Amnesty or Human rights watch is not credible and respected in my viewpoint.

What evidential basis do you have for that view?

Quote

I'm not interested on Western values of war crimes. I take Islamic values of war crimes.

Islam permits rape, abductions, mass demolishing of homes and extra-judicial killings?

It is also funny to me how you are now disregarding secular law for religious law. You were defending secular law on the other thread and now you've changed your stance to a religious one... 

 

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

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11 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

I'm still confused to why a non-iraqi is so invested in the politics of kurds in Iraq.

 

10 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

4-Plus you definately aren't Iraqi

Why are you getting personal here? The topic is not discussing anyone's ethnicity or language. Stick to the topic or the topic will be locked. No personal attacks allowed. 

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34 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

I miss anything?


The topic here is the idea of Kurdistan. The fact that Israel and Saudi are in support of it. My theory is that Israel is pushing for Kurdistan to happen for a few reasons.

1.Oil
2.Divide another Muslim country 
3. Have a political and military foothold in Iraq
4. Kill more shia by starting yet another civil war. 

My proof is simply the actual statements of Israel in support for an independent Kurdistan, along with reports of Israel buying Kurdish oil. Israeli flags being shown on the streets during the rallies.. 

http://www.jpost.com/Business-and-Innovation/Israel-importing-77-percent-of-its-oil-from-Iraqi-Kurdistan-report-says-413056
https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-israel-imported-1-billion-in-oil-from-iraqi-kurds/
https://www.ft.com/content/150f00cc-472c-11e5-af2f-4d6e0e5eda22?mhq5j=e6

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Why-Does-Israel-Support-an-Independent-Iraqi-Kurdistan--20170923-0023.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/09/25/kurds-say-they-have-no-friends-but-the-mountains-now-they-have-israel-and-that-could-cause-them-grief/?utm_term=.130659b35b46
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-13/israel-endorses-kurdish-independence-in-lone-show-of-support

tell me which sites you trust so I can show you an article from them of how Israel supports Kurdistan

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1 minute ago, kirtc said:


The topic here is the idea of Kurdistan. The fact that Israel and Saudi are in support of it. My theory is that Israel is pushing for Kurdistan to happen for a few reasons.

1.Oil
2.Divide another Muslim country 
3. Have a political and military foothold in Iraq
4. Kill more shia by starting yet another civil war. 

My proof is simply the actual statements of Israel in support for an independent Kurdistan, along with reports of Israel buying Kurdish oil. Israeli flags being shown on the streets during the rallies.. 

http://www.jpost.com/Business-and-Innovation/Israel-importing-77-percent-of-its-oil-from-Iraqi-Kurdistan-report-says-413056
https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-israel-imported-1-billion-in-oil-from-iraqi-kurds/
https://www.ft.com/content/150f00cc-472c-11e5-af2f-4d6e0e5eda22?mhq5j=e6

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Why-Does-Israel-Support-an-Independent-Iraqi-Kurdistan--20170923-0023.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/09/25/kurds-say-they-have-no-friends-but-the-mountains-now-they-have-israel-and-that-could-cause-them-grief/?utm_term=.130659b35b46
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-13/israel-endorses-kurdish-independence-in-lone-show-of-support

tell me which sites you trust so I can show you an article from them of how Israel supports Kurdistan

1-You stated a factually incorrect statement, Saudi doesn't support Kurdish independence:

Quote

JEDDAH: Saudi Arabia urged Kurdish leaders on Wednesday to call off next week’s planned independence referendum in the interests of Iraq’s stability, security, unity and sovereignty http://www.arabnews.com/node/1164416/middle-east

2-Israel buying Kurdish oil just means Israel is buying kurdish oil, anything beyond that is simply speculative and your subjective beliefs. You know how the USA buys Iraqi oil but you don't object to that, Can I ask why?

For example none of the sources you showed confirmed the claims you made about israel wanting to "kill more shia" or "divide a muslim country"; you've simply inputted that on your own. 

 

Look here is Abadi meeting with the Saudi prince:

DMvbMjIX4AcGv9D.jpg

 

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14 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

For example none of the sources you showed confirmed the claims you made about israel wanting to "kill more shia" or "divide a muslim country"; you've simply inputted that on your own

If you expect to read that in the news, then honestly this debate between us is useless.. which I think it is. This thread isn't only for you anyway. 

Edited by kirtc

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