Jump to content
just a muslim

questions for shi'as

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

salam. 

i have a few questions about sunnism and shiism. they both cant obviously be right. atleast one of them has to be wrong. the one who doesnt have the answers to all the questions and the one free from logical mistakes is false in my opinion. so, i seek answers to some questions, specially from someone intelligent and knowledgeable. and i am not lying when i say that i would convert to shiism if i find it to be the truth. but that is a very big if.

from what i have understood, the shia hadith literature has a certain usool of checking everything against the quran/logic. i mean, you check the hadith for the sanad, and if the sanad is authentic, then you check if the material of the hadith against the quran or reason. before i ask anything, i would like to confirm if this is true. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I am not the knowledgeable and intelligent. However, I think I could tell what I know about authentic hadith. 

1. It must not be against Quran.

2. It must not be against logic.

3. A narrator even though be trustworthy may make mistake if it's ordinary human other than prophet pbuhhp or Imams and if his quote is against Quran or other mutvatir hadith then it's rejected.

4. A person though untrustworthy may sometime speaks truth and if his quote is according to Quran and other Mutvatir hadith then it is accepted.

Edited by Sindbad05

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Although I am not the knowledgeable and intelligent. However, I think I could tell what I know about authentic hadith. 

1. It must not be against Quran.

2. It must not be against logic.

3. A narrator even though be trustworthy may make mistake if it's ordinary human other than prophet pbuhhp or Imams and if his quote is against Quran or other mutvatir hadith then it's rejected.

4. A person though untrustworthy may sometime speaks truth and if his quote is according to Quran and other Mutvatir hadith then it is accepted.

thank you. i want to ask you about number 3. since as you say, the authenticity/trustworthiness of a narrator alone is not enough for a hadith to be authentic, how can you be sure that even after checking the material against the quran, it is authentic? for example, and this is just an example with no intention to offend anyone, one hadith says Mr X is the successor imam. another hadith says Mr Y is the successor imam. both have authentic narrators. and if one goes against the quran, the other also goes against the quran. if neither goes against the quran, then how will you judge which is true?

another example would be, if a hadith says to pray with your hands by your side, the quran doesnt say anything about praying with your hands by your side. how will you then be sure that the hadith is authentic? and this is also not to offend anyone. i believe praying with hands by your side is sunnah too. so, try to answer objectively. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, just a muslim said:

thank you. i want to ask you about number 3. since as you say, the authenticity/trustworthiness of a narrator alone is not enough for a hadith to be authentic, how can you be sure that even after checking the material against the quran, it is authentic? for example, and this is just an example with no intention to offend anyone, one hadith says Mr X is the successor imam. another hadith says Mr Y is the successor imam. both have authentic narrators. and if one goes against the quran, the other also goes against the quran. if neither goes against the quran, then how will you judge which is true?

another example would be, if a hadith says to pray with your hands by your side, the quran doesnt say anything about praying with your hands by your side. how will you then be sure that the hadith is authentic? and this is also not to offend anyone. i believe praying with hands by your side is sunnah too. so, try to answer objectively. 

1. I have already told that in the answer that if both chain of narrators are reliable but both say contrary then Quran is the decider whoever is according to Quran is right.  So, we would check whether X qualifies for the quality of a leader or Y according to Quran.

2. I would follow the person who is neareest to Prophet and that's his family and successors 12 Imam's. And, prayer has been clearly visible in nature as Quran says pray like birds, that is that bird's hands are not overlapped.  Secondly, everyone get birth and coffined open handed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, just a muslim said:

salam. 

i have a few questions about sunnism and shiism. they both cant obviously be right. atleast one of them has to be wrong. the one who doesnt have the answers to all the questions and the one free from logical mistakes is false in my opinion. so, i seek answers to some questions, specially from someone intelligent and knowledgeable. and i am not lying when i say that i would convert to shiism if i find it to be the truth. but that is a very big if.

from what i have understood, the shia hadith literature has a certain usool of checking everything against the quran/logic. i mean, you check the hadith for the sanad, and if the sanad is authentic, then you check if the material of the hadith against the quran or reason. before i ask anything, i would like to confirm if this is true. 

Salam 

Checking authenticity of hadith needs expertise and it is not a simple matter that one can do on himself/herself so a non-expert should be very careful in stating and using hadith. There is an Islamic science that studies hadith and their authenticity and it is dependent on several other Islamic sciences (e.g. "علم رجال").

Hadithes are historical documents. The way to check the authenticity of a hadith is similar to the way of checking for the authenticity of other historical documents. A major difference is that many hadith has been preserved orally and not in a written form at least for the early centuries so there is no written document dating back to the original time the hadith has been stated. But still some means of checking authenticity of documents still apply, for example existence of multiple independent lines of narration from the source increases the confidence in the authenticity. Usually the persons who have narrated the hadith are also important for confidence.

Another basic rule for checking authenticity is that hadith should not contradict what is said in Quran so one also needs to be knowledgeable in Quran and its interpretation which is again a non-trivial Islamic science.

There are several major collections of hadith. Some of these are solely collection of all hadith that the author was aware of without vetting for authenticity (the main reason making all claimed hadith available for experts without bias). Others are collections where various amounts of vetting is performed. There are some hadith collection which are considered more reliable (though even in those books you may find contradictory hadith).

 I personally suggest you to be very careful about narrating a hadith unless you have studied the required sciences to be able to distinguish between authentic and non-authentic ones and when in doubt do not accept a hadith following Quran's advice (c.f. verses 17:36, 29:8, 31:15).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, qbh14 said:

Salam 

Checking authenticity of hadith needs expertise and it is not a simple matter that one can do on himself/herself so a non-expert should be very careful in stating and using hadith. There is an Islamic science that studies hadith and their authenticity and it is dependent on several other Islamic sciences (e.g. "علم رجال").

Hadithes are historical documents. The way to check the authenticity of a hadith is similar to the way of checking for the authenticity of other historical documents. A major difference is that many hadith has been preserved orally and not in a written form at least for the early centuries so there is no written document dating back to the original time the hadith has been stated. But still some means of checking authenticity of documents still apply, for example existence of multiple independent lines of narration from the source increases the confidence in the authenticity. Usually the persons who have narrated the hadith are also important for confidence.

Another basic rule for checking authenticity is that hadith should not contradict what is said in Quran so one also needs to be knowledgeable in Quran and its interpretation which is again a non-trivial Islamic science.

There are several major collections of hadith. Some of these are solely collection of all hadith that the author was aware of without vetting for authenticity (the main reason making all claimed hadith available for experts without bias). Others are collections where various amounts of vetting is performed. There are some hadith collection which are considered more reliable (though even in those books you may find contradictory hadith).

 I personally suggest you to be very careful about narrating a hadith unless you have studied the required sciences to be able to distinguish between authentic and non-authentic ones and when in doubt do not accept a hadith following Quran's advice (c.f. verses 17:36, 29:8, 31:15).

my main issue/problem/question is this. you guys say that simply an authentic chain is not good enough. it has to not contradict the quran as well. but i say that even that doesnt guarantee that the hadith was TRUE. for example, suppose you have a hadith which says to recite surah ikhlas before sleeping. now, firstly, you cant compare it to the quran. unless you say that the quran tells us to recite the quran and since the hadith isnt telling is to recite the words of shaytaan, it doesnt contradict the quran. i dont find that a good explanation for the following reason. you dont know if the prophet  pbuh said to recite surah ikhlas, or the last two surahs. neither of them contradict the quran. but the hadith talks about surah ikhlas. how would you know that the prophet actually said surah ikhlas and not any other surah. or that he said something like this at all?

edit: i am fairly educated in sunni hadith sciences and am quite cautious about such things. i check multiple scholars' gradings of hadith before sharing them. but dont know as much about shia hadith science. i know a lot is common. but it is the differences i am trying to understand.

Edited by just a muslim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, just a muslim said:

thank you. i want to ask you about number 3. since as you say, the authenticity/trustworthiness of a narrator alone is not enough for a hadith to be authentic, how can you be sure that even after checking the material against the quran, it is authentic? for example, and this is just an example with no intention to offend anyone, one hadith says Mr X is the successor imam. another hadith says Mr Y is the successor imam. both have authentic narrators. and if one goes against the quran, the other also goes against the quran. if neither goes against the quran, then how will you judge which is true?

For the specific example it is elaborated that there is plethora of hadith from the prophet saww that there are 12 imams  / successors of the holy prophet saww from his progeny and the names of those have been mentioned therein.

So there is no chance of the matter you are assuming that one can be the successor or the other can be successor of the same imam.

That names of successors have been well defined in the reliable narrations of the holy prophet saww.

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

For the specific example it is elaborated that there is plethora of hadith from the prophet saww that there are 12 imams  from his progeny and the names of those have been mentioned therein.

So there is no chance of the matter you are assuming that one can be the successor or the other can be successor of the same imam.

That names of successors have been well defined in the reliable narrations of the holy prophet saww.

lets talk here so as not to divert this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • I think an important question that nobodies asked is what kind of relationship do you have with your sister?  If you're not super close and just come out of nowhere with all these rules shes going to rebel and your parents could get involved- telling you to stay out of it. If this happens- she might think its okay because her parents are defending her.  If you're not close, then maybe this is an opportunity to be. Try and be really open and non judgemental and find out why she doesn't wish to observe hijab. It may just be down to ignorance: she simply doesn't know its importance in islam. You'd be surprised what kind of interesting conversations you'd have.  My brothers beliefs are fairly different to mine and fairly often we have interesting discussions/debates about all kinds of topics. He's also very open minded so I feel reassurance/comfort if I ever need to ask advice or information about a certain topic. 
    • Salaam, I have a difficult time finding things related to Sayed Khamenei on the internet-would you by chance be able to provide a link for the mentioned Q&A, in sha Allah? Thanks!
    • It's simple., One sect follows Islam as Allah swt and His Prophet (pbuh) wanted Muslims to follow while the other one is trying to tell Allah swt and the Prophet pbuh what they think should be part of Islam. So if you follow the former then you know you are on Haq and if you are following the latter then you are doomed. Allah swt states in Quran that only He appoints Caliphs. If you look at one sect they abide by it where as the other one have their own man-made Caliphs clearly against the Quran. It's really not that difficult.
    • Guest Guest 6172
      Dear brothers and sisters  Can someone please tell me what the following dream means.  Dreaming that your nephew is loosing his hair.    I heard it means something bad so I am a little worried.    JazakAllah 
×