Jump to content
Mansur Bakhtiari

What is happening in Kurdistan???

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Bakir said:

If the US supports the unity of Iraq it's merely because of the benefits of the oil.

Yes, that is exactly the case, if it wasnt for the wast amount of money they are stealing from Iraq today they would for sure have supported the kurds, might have been with weapons, tanks or even troops. Why not, I mean they seem to have some unemployed ex-daesh guys around nowadays.

Its the same reason as to why trump had to remove Iraq from the muslim ban list, because Iraq said that they would do the same to americans who want to go to Iraq, we cant have that you see.

 

 

Heres the two love birds in action:

CWdmHK_W4AEJK1_.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, IbnSina said:

 

Quote

The whole world disproves of the kurdish independence referendum except for the state of israel which not only does not disprove of it but also encourages it and supports it.

You are employing what we call in academia sophistry and argument that looks intelligent but doesn't actually refute the point or answer the question. 

Firstly let me break it down simply for you. Kurdistan being a "zionist state" means Kurds are jews because Zionism according to the dictionary is 'jewish nationalism'; Kurds aren't jews. 

Secondly, Israeli "supporting" the Kurdish referendum doesn't constitute Kurdistan being a zionist state, that is complete illogical. 

Thirdly, why do you ignore the fact Israel also during the Iran-Iraq war provides weapons/munitions to Iran and supported Iran? 

Quote

Why on earth would the state of israel care at all about the kurds and their faith? Out of the kindness of the governments heart? Please.

I never claimed it does care, it's self-interest. 

Quote

Following that, you see people in kurdistan waving israeli flags around.

The Kurdish nation is 40 million, you've seen how many Kurds waving Israeli flags on the internet? A few dozen? Maybe even a few hundred? That doesn't come even close to Kurds "supporting Israel". 

Quote

When a source of prime dhulm on earth like the government of the state of israel is supporting your actions, then its time to question oneself.

Yet the USA is supporting "your" actions, therefore how are you making an exception for Iraq but not for the KRG? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Yes, that is exactly the case, if it wasnt for the wast amount of money they are stealing from Iraq today they would for sure have supported the kurds, might have been with weapons, tanks or even troops. Why not, I mean they seem to have some unemployed ex-daesh guys around nowadays.

Its the same reason as to why trump had to remove Iraq from the muslim ban list, because Iraq said that they would do the same to americans who want to go to Iraq, we cant have that you see.

 

 

Heres the two love birds in action:

CWdmHK_W4AEJK1_.jpg

You are so full of rhetoric, it's hard to even have a reasonable discussion with you. 

 

Quote

Although secrecy is the first principle in the netherworld of arms trading, details of several subsequent major Israeli arms sales to Iran have come to light. In 1981, Ya'acov Nimrodi, an intimate of leaders across the Israeli political spectrum, sold the Iranian defense ministry $135,842,000 worth of Hawk anti-aircraft missiles, 155 mm. mortars, ammunition, and other weapons through his Tel Aviv-based company, International Desalination Equipment, Ltd. From 1955 to 1979 Nimrodi had been Israel's military attache in Tehran.

https://www.wrmea.org/1986-november/israeli-arms-sales-to-iran.html

 

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

The PKK in the city are still fighting and resisting. The PUK fled like cowards and KDP in Makhmur also fled. 

I don't understand why this is something dislikeable, many would have died from both of sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Conflicts on such scale are not solved by dialogue when one of the parts completely disobeys the other. Not only over the dispute of Kirkuk, but also over the Referendun to begin with.

Forcing a Referendum under such pressure and starting an unilateral secession resisted by regional troops, attacking the federal government, is not will to dialogue. It is the type of behaviour that should be answered firmly and directly, especially when cockroaches such as the zionists are behind it.

May God bless all those fighters and their families and protect them from all evil as they are giving their lives to protect the people and integrity of Iraq.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Brother please, its time to put our religion before our nationalities.

Religion hardly ever trumps cultural/linguistic association and ties, it wouldn't for Iraqis either.  Lets face it, the Kurds got a terrible deal after the world war, their people were cut and divided across 4 different states.  The way they carved out Iraq also made no sense whatsoever.  Iraq is responding like any nation state would, but you can hardly blame the Kurds for wanting more autonomy and independence.  Also, just because Israel is backing the movement doesn't make it inherently illegitimate.  Just because Pakistan backs Kashmir or India Balochi separatists doesn't make their plea for independence illegitimate.

Edited by King

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Firstly let me break it down simply for you. Kurdistan being a "zionist state" means Kurds are jews because Zionism according to the dictionary is 'jewish nationalism'; Kurds aren't jews. 

Secondly, Israeli "supporting" the Kurdish referendum doesn't constitute Kurdistan being a zionist state, that is complete illogical. 

Thirdly, why do you ignore the fact Israel also during the Iran-Iraq war provides weapons/munitions to Iran and supported Iran? 

No brother, zionism does not necessary have to do with jews, Zionism is a political movement and ideology of israeli superiority, there are christian zionists as well, I am sure you are aware of this.

Here, from your own source: https://www.wrmea.org/special-topics/zionism-and-its-impact.html

The israeli government would only support the kurds if it was, just like you said, in their self interest and what is the interest of the israeli government ruled by extremists zionists and how does that correlate to the shia muslim world and the place of meraj?

A government that supports the zionist agenda, which a new kurdistan would, would in fact be considered a zionist state, that is not far fetched as per the definition of what zionism actually is politically speaking.

Your saying israel sold weapons and gave support to Iran, you gave me a source for this but I do not know how reliable this source is. But either way, lets say they did, and how did that end for them? Some say the CIA helped Khomeini(RA) get to power in Iran, okay, and how did that end for them?

 

8 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

The Kurdish nation is 40 million, you've seen how many Kurds waving Israeli flags on the internet? A few dozen? Maybe even a few hundred? That doesn't come even close to Kurds "supporting Israel".

I would say that the general sentiment of the kurdish population are positive towards israel or any other country that supports them (such as french politicians and think tanks, see linked picture with bernad levy and bernard koucher https://i.imgur.com/usVzrWx.jpg) in their aim to create a new country, would the people say that they dont like israel back? And if you like someone, dont you support them? Normally you do. Nationalism often works like that, it blinds you and makes you self centered.

Okay, lets forget about the people. How about the leaders, what is their affiliation with the israeli government?

 

8 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Yet the USA is supporting "your" actions, therefore how are you making an exception for Iraq but not for the KRG? 

Its in the interest of shias not to have a zionist friendly "yes man" of a country right by the borders of the major shia nations.

And its in the interest of the US to not make the iraqi government upset or ells it will be hard to steal resources undisturbed.

 

Now brother, lets me ask you a question, I would really like you to reply to it:

If you had to choose between an action which will benefit the shias of the world or the kurds of the world which one would you choose?

Bare in mind, in my question helping one would mean bad news for the other and there was no way of helping both and you had to choose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, King said:

Religion hardly ever trumps cultural/linguistic association and ties, it wouldn't for Iraqis either

Yes you are unfortunately right in both your statements, the shias of iraq showed that during the iraq and iran war, but it does not need to continue like that. If we want to work for the arrival of our Imam(ajf) then we need to put national identify behind us and haqq ahead of us.

 

6 hours ago, King said:

Lets face it, the Kurds got a terrible deal after the world war, their people were cut and divided across 4 different states.  The way they carved out Iraq also made no sense whatsoever.  Iraq is responding like any nation state would, but you can hardly blame the Kurds for wanting more autonomy and independence.  Also, just because Israel is backing the movement doesn't make it inherently illegitimate.  Just because Pakistan backs Kashmir or India Balochi separatists doesn't make their plea for independence illegitimate.

There are ways of conducting when you wish to create an independent country and taking advantage of a chaos ridden country which are still fighting the same terrorists that would kill you as well, is not the way to do it.

If israel, a great enemy against islam, shias in particular, is supporting you, then you need to question what it is that your doing and if it is right. What interest does israel have in kurdistan? You tell me and should you serve those interests?

As far as independence goes, lets take the kurds of Iran as an example, do they lack anything or are they restricted in anyways? No, so whats the problem exactly? They are in fact very integrated and considered persians.

The kurds should not be oppressed, they should be allowed to speak their own language if they wish and practice their culture within the limits of islam, not like how they are treated in turkey, dhulm is never accepted of course.

But lets be clear about something, when we are talking about kurdistan and the conflict today, they are talking about "south kurdistan" so this conflict will not stop here if it continues and as long as israel has a finger in it and supports this cause we must take extreme caution. 

You are correct in your statement that just because somebody bad supports somebody ells, that does not make the goal bad in by itself. But if that somebody ells serves the bad person supporting them and their goals in return, whether it is directly or indirectly, then that changes the situation. In this case we are talking about the support of israel and the serving of their interests.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious to know your position and the opinion of Feyli Kurds in general about seeking an independent Kurdistan, @Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī. I'm assuming you're Kurdish from your name. I've heard most Feyli Kurds dislike pretty much all the main players, PUK, KDP, and Hezb al-da'wah. So what's the alternative?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

News Note:  l just heard CBS describe recent Kirkuk events as "lraqi forces have just pushed out American backed Kurdish forces."

 

OPINE: l remember a standard gag line from American TV comedians in the early 1960s. Specifically, Red Skelton, Milton Berle, and such.  The political context is the Containment Policy (of the Soviet Union) when the US had been sponsoring all kinds of treaties, such as the Baghdad Pact [a.k.a. CENTO] as well as SEATO, NATO (first one) and so on.

The gag was: "The US is a member of so many treaties, when the next war breaks out we will be on both sides."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jaabir said:

I'm curious to know your position and the opinion of Feyli Kurds in general about seeking an independent Kurdistan, @Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī. I'm assuming you're Kurdish from your name. I've heard most Feyli Kurds dislike pretty much all the main players, PUK, KDP, and Hezb al-da'wah. So what's the alternative?

Let me break it down. 

The Feylis in Baghdad for the most part are simply put apolitical and have chosen to remain so for a few reasons. The Shia parties in Iraq don't appeal to them(even though yes some if not many vote for them), the KDP and PUK stopped representing the feylis in Baghdad post 1996 after the Kurdish civil war.

The Feylis outside of Baghdad in Khanaqin are pro-PUK and are quite distant from Feylis in Baghdad. The feylis in Mandali and Badra are probably in the similar position of being pro-PUK but i believe it is with great reluctance. 

The alternative is to vote for Gorran in my opinion or the PKK. I know for certain the PKK and Gorran will after this political failure from the KDP and PUK gain alot of support from Kurds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, IbnSina said:

No brother, zionism does not necessary have to do with jews, Zionism is a political movement and ideology of israeli superiority, there are christian zionists as well, I am sure you are aware of this.

Here, from your own source: https://www.wrmea.org/special-topics/zionism-and-its-impact.html

Yes and the source I used clearly states:

Quote

The Zionist movement arose in late nineteenth-century Europe, influenced by the nationalist ferment sweeping that continent. Zionism acquired its particular focus from the ancient Jewish longing for the return to Zion and received a strong impetus from the increasingly intolerable conditions facing the large Jewish community in tsarist Russia. 

^Jewish nationalism basically. Your point on Israeli superiority isn't founded in my source.

Quote

A government that supports the zionist agenda, which a new kurdistan would, would in fact be considered a zionist state, that is not far fetched as per the definition of what zionism actually is politically speaking

1. You've incorrectly used the defiintion of the word zionist once again. I've stated it above, using the source you mis-read(I quoted it). 

2. You've not explained with evidence what their "agenda" is.

3. You've engaged in a slippery slope argument of stating simply supporting one entity makes it that entity, not factually true. Iran supports Russia, does that mean Iran is now a Russian colony? 

Quote

I would say that the general sentiment of the kurdish population are positive towards israel or any other country that supports them (such as french politicians and think tanks, see linked picture with bernad levy and bernard koucher https://i.imgur.com/usVzrWx.jpg) in their aim to create a new country, would the people say that they dont like israel back? And if you like someone, dont you support them? Normally you do. Nationalism often works like that, it blinds you and makes you self centered.

1. What evidence do you actually have? Can you show me any statistics on the sentiment of Kurds towards Israel?

2.The picture shows they are having a meeting. Abadi also met Trump, are you calling him an American puppet? 7554CEAD-8265-4DFE-94D0-B597C3CFCE6D_cx0

 

The rest is mumbo jumbo, no offence but honestly I can tell you aren't from Iraq or are familar with Iraqi politics. Like what kind of a silly question is this:

"

If you had to choose between an action which will benefit the shias of the world or the kurds of the world which one would you choose?"

There are plenty of Shia Kurds.... Plus what if the actions of the shias is bad? Do I have to choose them still?

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

You can ask that about anything. Plus that literally is supporting the idea the Iraqi central gov is being dictatorial and not following the constitution, which it agreed upon in 2003 with the Kurds. 

Really anything? Applying such an constitution could easily mean that bloodshed could happen everywhere in Iraq because the concern is not any matter but rather a disputed lands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Really anything? Applying such an constitution could easily mean that bloodshed could happen everywhere in Iraq because the concern is not any matter but rather a disputed lands.

And taking over kirkuk by force didn't result in bloodshed? I'll show you the dead civilians if you want. 

Plus HOW THE HELL IS THAT AN ARGUMENT? You are basically admitting don't follow the constitution, if so, why are you coming to kurds claiming "you are stealing land"...MATE YOU WON'T EVEN IMPLEMENT ARTICLE 140. 

 

BABA wallah i'm done with you shia. I'm better off calling myself yehudi, maybe you will respect me more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

And taking over kirkuk by force didn't result in bloodshed? I'll show you the dead civilians if you want. 

Plus HOW THE HELL IS THAT AN ARGUMENT? You are basically admitting don't follow the constitution, if so, why are you coming to kurds claiming "you are stealing land"...MATE YOU WON'T EVEN IMPLEMENT ARTICLE 140. 

 

BABA wallah i'm done with you shia. I'm better off calling myself yehudi, maybe you will respect me more. 

Calm down, your nationalism is taking over your self. I'm talking about the issue of you wanting to apply the article 140 without knowing any conciseness of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • I don't know, it is something that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى did not made obligatory for man. Mans have their own laws and so do the Womans.
    • Guest ????
      Why is it not farz on men? 
    • Some men do it voluntary to cover their hair out of piety, even when it is not necessary for them to wear it. It is not confused Sister, and He do say you need to cover your hair clearly. He clearly in verse make it obligatory to cover the hair but also the chest, because there used to be women who only covered their hair and not chest. to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands... Quran 24:31 Many people always focus on Physical aspect on Hijab, when the spiritual is the most important. We need to obey Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى if we claim ourselves to be Muslim in every commands He give us, if we do not do that, then we are obeying Shaytan and Shaytan will lead us to wrong path. Don't you want to be guided and follow Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى way?
    • Guest ????
      I understand. But i just don't understand the reasoning nor the justice as to why men dont have to cover their hair. Allah has written about hijab in such a confusing way. He doesnt say anywhere that you need to cover your hair, from what i have read. And people always use the "oh it protects you" argument. Which is a complete lie. Girls wearing hijab still get hit on.
    • أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم Alif, Lam, Meem, Allah, there is no God but He, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all things subsist, Allah bears witness that there is no God but He, and so do the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise, Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and whoever goes astray, to its detriment only does he go astray: nor can the bearer of a burden bear the burden of another, nor do We chastise until We raise a messenger, Whoever desires this present life, We hasten to him therein what We please for whomsoever We desire, then We assign to him the hell; he shall enter it despised, driven away, And whoever desires the hereafter and strives for it as he ought to strive and he is a believer; as for these, their striving shall surely be accepted,
×