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Why should I believe in Muhammad over others?

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6 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

This is a very subjective approach.  It is hardly objective.  let us take a case in point.  

I wonder how "intertwined with nature" a non-muslim finds the following:

Men beating their bare chests red in a dimly lit or dark hall with walls covered in black curtains.... hearing someone screaming... his voice blasting through speakers.

 

:)

 

 

 

Ramadan is also not a very good idea everywhere. Because the Sun refuses to sink below the horizon during arctic summer, Eskimoes in Northern Alaska had not surived the last one, had they tried to follow the Quran. 

Edited by andres

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2 hours ago, andres said:

Christians and historians believe the Quran altered the words of the Bible. Not the opposite.

first revelation was revealed to holy prophet pbuh at the age of 40, why he waited forty years to change the bible? when angel appeard and said read he pbuh said I cannot read, quran says that tell them, did I not spend my life with you? did I bring revelations to you before when they were not send?

if the historians are christians and if christians are historians they would definitely say that 

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34 minutes ago, father said:

first revelation was revealed to holy prophet pbuh at the age of 40, why he waited forty years to change the bible? when angel appeard and said read he pbuh said I cannot read, quran says that tell them, did I not spend my life with you? did I bring revelations to you before when they were not send?

if the historians are christians and if christians are historians they would definitely say that 

What did the first revelation say? Something that also was mentioned in the Bible? And how can we know if the revelation was perfectly preserved after 40 years? 

Historians of all kinds make the conclusion that if some thing is distprted, it is the Quran that distorted the words of the Bible, for the simple reason that the Bible could not destort a Book that was written centuries later. Only Muslim historians can disagree with this. 

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1 hour ago, andres said:

What did the first revelation say? Something that also was mentioned in the Bible? And how can we know if the revelation was perfectly preserved after 40 years? 

Historians of all kinds make the conclusion that if some thing is distprted, it is the Quran that distorted the words of the Bible, for the simple reason that the Bible could not destort a Book that was written centuries later. Only Muslim historians can disagree with this. 

first revelation says 

"Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who

Created man, out of a clot of congealed blood:

Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,–

Who taught by the pen–

Taught man that which he knew not."  it is not what bible says

if you say that torah was not corrupted then why did jesus pbuh said:

“You have heard that it was said … and I say to you …” 

e.g You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.” But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment. (Matthew 5:21-22)

why did jesus changed the old comandments

Edited by father

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25 minutes ago, father said:

it is the Quran that distorted the words of the Bible, for the simple reason that the Bible could not destort a Book that was written centuries later. Only Muslim historians can disagree with this. 

then why do gospels contradict each other

The women reported the resurrection to the men (Matt. 28:8).

The women did not report the resurrection to the men (Mark 16:8).

The disciples are permitted to take a staff (Mark 6:8-9).

The disciples are not permitted to take a staff (Luke 9:3; Matt. 10:9-10).

Jesus healed one blind man (Mark 10:46 // Luke 18:35).

Jesus healed two blind men (Matt. 20:30).

two robbers did not beleive jesus and cursed him (mattews)

one of them did beleive jesus (john)

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. —Matthew 5:16

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. —Matthew 6:1

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. —Matthew 10:34

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. —John 16:33

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart… —Matthew 17:1

And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. —Luke 9:28

Edited by father

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55 minutes ago, father said:

first revelation says 

"Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who

Created man, out of a clot of congealed blood:

Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,–

Who taught by the pen–

Taught man that which he knew not."  it is not what bible says

if you say that torah was not corrupted then why did jesus pbuh said:

“You have heard that it was said … and I say to you …” 

e.g You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.” But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment. (Matthew 5:21-22)

why did jesus changed the old comandments

Muhammed also changed some Old Testament rules. For example he changed the direction if prayer from Jerusalem to Mekka. Islam did not exist before Christianity that did not exist before Judaism that did not exist before Kaananeean polytheism. 

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44 minutes ago, father said:

then why do gospels contradict each other

Because they were written by different humans. Humans are not infallible. There are nothing duch as an infallible history Book. That the Quran also is not , is however impossible for Muslims to accept.

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6 minutes ago, andres said:

Islam did not exist before Christianity that did not exist before Judaism that did not exist before Kaananeean polytheism. 

that doesnot mean that jews should not beleive in jesus and christians should not beleive in muhammad pbuh

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians--whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).
". . . and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God--as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

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3 minutes ago, andres said:

That the Quran also is not , is however impossible for Muslims to accept.

Allah himself took the responsiblity of quran and also said obey Allah and obey the prophet

Edited by father

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12 minutes ago, andres said:

That the Quran also is not

 

Do they not look at the Camels, how they are made? [17] And at the Sky, how it is raised high? [18] And at the Mountains, how they are fixed firm? [19] And at the Earth, how it is spread out? [20]Therefore do thou give admonition, for thou art one to admonish. [21] Thou art not one to manage (men's) affairs. [22]

"Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!" (Luqman, 20)

"Verily, in the alternation of the night and the day, and in all that Allah hath created, in the heavens and the earth, are signs for those who fear Him." [Yunus (Jonah), 6]

how can you say these could be words of some humans?

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28 minutes ago, father said:

 

Do they not look at the Camels, how they are made? [17] And at the Sky, how it is raised high? [18] And at the Mountains, how they are fixed firm? [19] And at the Earth, how it is spread out? [20]Therefore do thou give admonition, for thou art one to admonish. [21] Thou art not one to manage (men's) affairs. [22]

"Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!" (Luqman, 20)

"Verily, in the alternation of the night and the day, and in all that Allah hath created, in the heavens and the earth, are signs for those who fear Him." [Yunus (Jonah), 6]

how can you say these could be words of some humans?

Those are words of human living many years ago. Today we know that the World is not spread out and that the Mountains are not fixed. World is a Globe and the Mountins float on plates. Moutains still form where plates collide and vanish again when eroded by wind and water.

 

Edited by andres

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38 minutes ago, father said:

that doesnot mean that jews should not beleive in jesus and christians should not beleive in muhammad pbuh

But Christians and Jews do not believe Muhammeds revelations were from God. Jews do not even believe that Jesus was. 

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31 minutes ago, andres said:

Mountains are not fixed. World is a Globe and the Mountins float on plates. Moutains still form where plates collide and vanish again when eroded by wind and water.

 

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1 hour ago, andres said:

Those are words of human living many years ago

quran says that: tell them, did I not spend my life with you? did I bring revelations to you before ?

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1 hour ago, andres said:

Those are words of human living many years ago.

in bible jesus himself said

son of man has come to find the lost and has come to free them,

until son of man doesnot get up from dead,
people will see son of man on clouds,
you dont know the time when  son of man will come,
son of man will be betread will be crucified and,
on arriving jeroselum those with jesus said this is jesus the prohet from nazarath and galalee
people called him son of david,

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2 hours ago, andres said:

But Christians and Jews do not believe Muhammeds revelations were from God.

 

4 hours ago, andres said:

Historians of all kinds make the conclusion that if some thing is distprted, it is the Quran that distorted the words of the Bible, for the simple reason that the Bible could not destort a Book that was written centuries later

what you are saying sounds very funny to me, I mean:, At the age of forty, Muhammad  received his first revelation from God through the Angel Gabriel. he and his small group of followers suffered persecution from unbelievers for 12 years. which included verbal attack, ostracism, unsuccessful boycott, and physical persecution.Around this time, Muhammad visited Ta'if, a city some sixty kilometers east of Mecca, to preach Islam, but met with severe hostility from its inhabitants who pelted him with stones causing bleeding that fill full his shoes and clothes. Because of assassination attempts from the Quraysh he migrated to madina. and then they fought wars 6 7 years from medinah.he fought with his own people and could not come to makkah for many years.he lost close friends and relatives also,

all this just for distorting the words of bible? lol why he didnot specifically fight jews and christians to change their words, at that age in life?

Edited by father

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4 hours ago, father said:

 

what you are saying sounds very funny to me, I mean:, At the age of forty, Muhammad  received his first revelation from God through the Angel Gabriel. he and his small group of followers suffered persecution from unbelievers for 12 years. which included verbal attack, ostracism, unsuccessful boycott, and physical persecution.Around this time, Muhammad visited Ta'if, a city some sixty kilometers east of Mecca, to preach Islam, but met with severe hostility from its inhabitants who pelted him with stones causing bleeding that fill full his shoes and clothes. Because of assassination attempts from the Quraysh he migrated to madina. and then they fought wars 6 7 years from medinah.he fought with his own people and could not come to makkah for many years.he lost close friends and relatives also,

all this just for distorting the words of bible? lol why he didnot specifically fight jews and christians to change their words, at that age in life?

You believe that the Quran is the yrue word of God. Therefore you believe that everything in the Bible that does not match the Quran, must be corrupted. And the Quran has got a lot of stories and personalities in common with the Bible. What if the Quran is not the true word of God, or that it was not correctly memorised, some revelation was lost etc. After all there were many years from the first revelation until the Quran was compiled. If the Quran is not the word of God, does it not make sense that Muhammed had heard stories from the Bible? The Bible was in his days only available in Hebrew (OT), Greek (NT) and a translation into Latin. Were there anybody around that could translate this correctly for the Arab speaking population in Medina? I am not certain. This could be the explanation to some differences between the Quran and the Bible. 

Edited by andres

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6 hours ago, father said:

 

I dont want to wasye my time watching long videos, but I watched the Moving Mountains. It was rather short. In my opinion the Quran, when read in context,  speaks about judgement day. People will see mountains move like clouds. Mountains dont, or have you seen?

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5 hours ago, andres said:

People will see mountains move like clouds. Mountains dont, or have you seen?

i dont know where it says that, there is no verse that say this as far as i know.

 And the mountains will move. In Surath At-Tur

 They ask thee concerning the Mountains: say, "My Lord will uproot them and scatter them as dust; In Surath Taha

And the mountains will be like wool, In Surath Al-Ma`arij

And the earth is moved, and its mountains, and they are crushed at one stroke,- In Surath Al-Haqqah

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5 hours ago, andres said:

I dont want to wasye my time watching long videos, but I watched the Moving Mountains. It was rather short. In my opinion the Quran, when read in context,  speaks about judgement day. People will see mountains move like clouds. Mountains dont, or have you seen?

The Quran is speaking of a time when mountains will move like clouds which is Qiyamah (Judgment Day)

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7 hours ago, andres said:

does it not make sense that Muhammed had heard stories from the Bible? The Bible was in his days only available in Hebrew (OT), Greek (NT) and a translation into Latin. Were there anybody around that could translate this correctly for the Arab speaking population in Medina? I am not certain. This could be the explanation to some differences between the Quran and the Bible. 

hebrew is not an easy language and why would pagans translate bible? they were themself idol worshippers

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9 hours ago, andres said:

Quran has got a lot of stories and personalities in common with the Bible

 

9 hours ago, andres said:

This could be the explanation to some differences between the Quran and the Bible. 

yes quran has stories similar to bible but there are a lot differences in both

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6 hours ago, father said:

hebrew is not an easy language and why would pagans translate bible? they were themself idol worshippers

What I meant is that those pagans had heard stories from the Bible. Oral tradition is not as secure as written, so the stories easily would change. Take the flood story. If I was to rewrite it from memory, it would not be precisely the same as in the Bible. This also happened for the writers of the Torah when they rewrote the Sumeric flood story.

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